Nightless Sensor QF Mafia - Endgame

Author: Bullish

Posts

Total: 18
Topic's author
#1
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Lunatic
oromagi

Commentary

First of all, I gave mafia the town PM structure. I wrote this first thing in the mafia discord:

town pm looks like this:

Nightless Sensor QF Mafia

ur town
Town was just lucky mafia logged in late or they would have been duped.

Good job Ragnar on figuring out the self-lynch method, that was one of the strats opened up by the setup.

If oro came up and voted drafter, he would have had a chance of winning if he confirmed town that the PM structure analysis was bullshit (which it was)

Someone brought up that the sensor is usually OP. But in this case it's mitigated by the fact that 1) scum knew there is a sensor, and 2) the low number of players limit the usefulness of the sensor. The mafia bomb makes up for the lack of a night kill.

The chance of mafia winning by 2 immediate mislynches was 1/3, plus the chance they would have won if one of them died makes this a balanced game.

I also think this mechanic encourages behavioural analysis, because it forces scum to vote certain wagons, which means wagons are analysis gold.
Topic's author
#2
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@Lunatic
@oromagi
@Speedrace
end
Topic's author
#3
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@drafterman
@Barney
@WaterPhoenix
gam
#4
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Still think this favors town heavily but whateva. Wish oro was on to at least give it a fighting chance
#5
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@Lunatic
@oromagi
Since you had the PM, was it a long con to have Lunatic out himself as scum while oro tried to look town by quoting it?
#6
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
Had Oro been on and hammered Drafter, Speed and I would have been forced to lynch him for the anti-town behavior (even if we each would have been somewhat uncertain).

Admittedly, once Drafter joined into the test (VTLing himself), I suspected he was town. However, it still gave the optimal chances at victory, even more so with Oro absent so unlikely to VTL himself if town.
#7
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
Sorry I was called away for a few hours,  I would've hammered if I'd been around.
#8
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
Oh wow lol. We won because of a lie

#9
drafterman
drafterman's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 5,653
3
6
9
drafterman's avatar
drafterman
3
6
9
Eh, I said it was Oro anyway
#10
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Since you had the PM, was it a long con to have Lunatic out himself as scum while oro tried to look town by quoting it?
The pm structure argument was flawed. Obviously we had the same thing in the pm. Pressing it was dumb but if igure my lynch was more or less random given drafters argument.  Speed and ragnar were the only ones following that logic

#11
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@Lunatic
Something being obvious to one who has insider information, is a scum slip.

The logic gave us a starting point. However, as with my self voting test, were Speed to have been scum he still would have been caught.
#12
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Barney
Something being obvious to one who has insider information, is a scum slip.

The logic gave us a starting point. However, as with my self voting test, were Speed to have been scum he still would have been caught.

If I was town and had gotten mis-lynched over that you wouldn't brag about the logic would you have? Because me not catching the "ur" thing til speed told me to check my pm is equally as likely as if I was town.

Point is, that logic did nothing to further the game lol. It's been debated for a long time whether analyzing pm structure is worth while, and mods end up either telling the mafia the same message as town, or purposefully make all messages different. It's horrible reasoning to push a lynch, I'll defend that as town or scum.
#13
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@Lunatic
Given that you've previously openly admitted that you being town is an advantage to mafia, I would be fine with you being mislynched. None of this changes your scum slips. Had you been town, you would have had less information to spread your attention across; thus less likely to not recognize the contents of the town PM.

Given a choice between a wholly random lynch, and lynching someone acting suspicious, I'll lynch the suspicious person every time.
#14
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Given that you've previously openly admitted that you being town is an advantage to mafia, I would be fine with you being mislynched.

What? Where did I say this?

None of this changes your scum slips. Had you been town, you would have had less information to spread your attention across; thus less likely to not recognize the contents of the town PM.

I am not arguing the results, I am arguing the logic behind pressing a lynch behind PM structure. It has literally been proven mafia got the same PM structure, and you are saying the logic was sound regardless lol. Behind right for the wrong reasons isn't bragworthy.

Given a choice between a wholly random lynch, and lynching someone acting suspicious, I'll lynch the suspicious person every time.

Someone not catching a pm structure reference isn't inherently scummy, as town could equally not catch on to it. I found it as soon as speed told me to check my pm. Nothing would be different if I was town. What are you not getting?



#15
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Barney
forgot to tag you
#16
Barney
Barney's avatar
Debates: 53
Posts: 3,463
5
9
10
Barney's avatar
Barney
5
9
10
-->
@Lunatic
Given that you've previously openly admitted that you being town is an advantage to mafia, I would be fine with you being mislynched.
What? Where did I say this?
Speedrace - Quickfire Mafia - DP1, #67

You called mafia NKing you to be a noob mistake due to how useful you are to mafia. As I already called you out on in my very next post that game.
#17
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 8,944
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Barney
Speedrace - Quickfire Mafia - DP1, #67

You called mafia NKing you to be a noob mistake due to how useful you are to mafia. As I already called you out on in my very next post that game.

That was 2 months ago I said that as a result of 1 mafia game (the office)
#18
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
The only post of this game that I read was the one I was tagged in.

The FFS argument is now 2 for 2 it seems.