Confusion Of Who The Disciples Should Convert

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Stephen

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Stephen

02.02.2020 07:48PM

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02.02.2020 07:48PM

Yes, yet again we have more puzzling and confusing instructions given by the Christ to his disciples. I am referring to what has been called "The Great Commission". Simpy put it is an instruction by the Christ to his disciples to go out into the world and make more disciples.

"Make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A19&version=NIV

But if we back up a little in the same gospel we can read that this instruction is not as inclusive as it appears later:

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6).

This was not then the universal message that appears at Matthew 28:19 but an instruction to go to the "lost sheep of Israel" only. i.e. Jews and not all Jews either it appears the Samaritans - Israelite descendants were off the guest list too.

It appears too that this - not so - inclusive instruction doesn't apply to all the people of "all nations" either, when we read the words from the lips of the Christ himself and his encounter with the Canaanite woman:

Jesus rejected her plea to heal her daughter, saying; “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him and begged and pleaded. “Lord, help me!” she said.

He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (Matthew 15:24–6).

Canaanites are included in a list of nations to exterminate on the instructions of god in the book of Joshua

And staying with the Old Testament, we don’t find an all-inclusive message there, either.

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the lord, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

And god also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

So what is to be made of this "Make disciples of all the nations, from (Matthew 28:19).

#2

BrotherDThomas

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BrotherDThomas

02.02.2020 09:33PM

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02.02.2020 09:33PM

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@Stephen

.

Stephen,

I should keep the Bible ignorant ethang5 out of your posts for awhile so as not to muddle them up again with his Satanic rhetoric, because at this time he will be turning himself into another pretzel by "trying" to respond to my following posts where he has unfortunately stepped in the proverbial poo again. :(

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3644/why-do-christians-hate-gays?page=2&post_number=35

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2254/true-christians-have-to-accept-that-jesus-was-an-abortionist?page=3&post_number=72

.

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#3

Stephen

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Stephen

02.03.2020 08:28AM

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02.03.2020 08:28AM

Well the problem here should leap from the page to those who consider themselves devout Christians:

Who did Jesus actaully come to earth to save?

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ethang5

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ethang5

02.04.2020 08:53PM

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02.04.2020 08:53PM

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@Stephen

Did Jesus save the Samaritan woman at the well? Yes. But our genius fails to mention that. Why?

Did Jesus save the Canaanite woman? Yes. But our genius fails to mention that. Why?

There is an Epistle to the Romans. Were the Romans Jews? No.

Revelations mentions seven churches. Are all of them Jewish? No.

John says of his vision of Heaven on the last day, that there were multitudes from every nation present.

Jesus Himself says that His message will be preached to all the Earth. Why does our vacuous preacher fail to mention every fact that would render his argument nonsense?

Now, Jesus initially sent His disciples only to the Jews, because as God's chosen people, they had first dibs on the good news.

What our genius wants is to imply but not say it outright, that the message of Jesus was NEVER intended for non-jews. He knows this would be a lie, so he says it by innuendo. But Jesus Himself contradicts that.

So he fakes interpret a saying by Jesus, throws in a few OT verses, and tadaa! He's faked a controversy.

Paul was specifically sent to non-jews, and in his blistering sermon in Acts, he explains how the gospel first had to be preached to the Jews, and now was being given to gentiles.

Stephen hopes that his audiences general unfamiliarity with the bible will cause them to consider his fake argument.

Just before Jesus leaves them, after they have gone out and preached to Israel, the disciples return excited that they could perform miracles. This was the first time Jesus had sent them out. The first time, they were restricted to Israel only, as prophesy required.

But just before Jesus left for Heaven, He again charged His disciples to go out to all the world and make disciples.

Here are the questions I would ask our genius if he did not dodge questions.

1. If the disciples were restricted the first time, what makes you think the restriction was permanent?

2. Paul was sent to non-jews. Were you aware of that?

3. Jesus tells His disciples to preach to All Nations, why is that confusing?

Stephen then says "And staying with the Old Testament, we don’t find an all-inclusive message there, either."

But this is a cleverly worded lie. The message has never changed. It has always been all-inclusive. What changed was who it would be preached to.

How do I know? Many non-jews became followers of Jehovah in the OT. Many times with God Himself telling the Jews not to restrict anyone who wanted to follow Him.

God insisted to the Jews that He was the God of all men, and promised, even in the OT, that His purpose was to save all men.

This is yet another fake "contradiction", made up out of smoke and mirrors and half truths. I believe Stephen knows his posts contain lies. So what does he get out of lying?

If he truly believes Christianity is bad, why does he need to lie about it? What are his lies supposed to accomplish?

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Stephen

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Stephen

02.05.2020 08:22AM

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02.05.2020 08:22AM

Stephen then says "And staying with the Old Testament, we don’t find an all-inclusive message there, either."

But this is a cleverly worded lie. The message has never changed. It has always been all-inclusive. What changed was who it would be preached to.

There is absolutely nothing clever about quoting the scriptures verbatim.

It there for anyone who is not too idle to look it up for themselves. The EXCLUSIVENESS is there in black on white.

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the lord, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

SO! Can you explain to those reading here what it is that you find INCLUSIVE about Ammonites or Moabites being EXCLUDED and forbidden from entering the assembly of the Lord? or simply stop with your persistent and continuous lies.

And god also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

And the exclusiveness, intolerance and racism is eye watering in those verses above showing absolutely no INCLUSIVENESS whatsoever!

Lets take them one at a time and maybe you can explain the "INCLUSIVENESS" in these bias racists verses;

Deuteronomy 7:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

Why don't you explain to us where the inclusiveness you keep insisting on is shown in that verse? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Ezra 9:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
9 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites,

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Ezra 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Nehemiah 13 On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

I repeat-

so what is to be made of this "Make disciples of all the nations", from (Matthew 28:19) when the scriptures themselves clearly show no such thing as the inclusiveness of all nations. ?

#6

ethang5

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ethang5

02.05.2020 09:00AM

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02.05.2020 09:00AM

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@Stephen

There is absolutely nothing clever about quoting the scriptures verbatim.

Then its no wonder you do so often.

SO! Can you explain to those reading here what it is that you find INCLUSIVE about Ammonites or Moabites being EXCLUDED and forbidden from entering the assembly of the Lord?

You dodged my questions Pablo. There was no Christianity in Deut. genius.

And the exclusiveness, intolerance and racism is eye watering in those verses above showing absolutely no INCLUSIVENESS whatsoever!

Inclusiveness in what? Can a person marry into Christianity? The dumb liberal assumption that everyone has a right to be included in everything is just that. Dumb.

Why don't you explain to us where the inclusiveness you keep insisting on is shown in that verse? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Stop being stupid. You said there was no inclusiveness in the Christian message. That verse does not contain the Christian message Pablo. Stop trying to conflate different things. Doing that is akin to lying.

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above?

I did not say inclusiveness (whatever that is to you) is in that verse genius. I said inclusiveness is in the christian message.

And the prohibition on marriage was not permanent. Why are you trying to pretend it was?

...Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Truth is what opposes you. That is why

you run away from questions. Lies is what you try to hide.

so what is to be made of this "Make disciples of all the nations", from (Matthew 28:19) when the scriptures themselves clearly show no such thing as the inclusiveness of all nations. ?

You've been answered, but you're doing your obtuse dance. The disciples were not "confused". Only you are confused.

You actually are trying to equate a religious ritual in Deut, to a admonition by Jesus to His disciples 6,000 years later!

Do you really think joining the "congregation" in the second book of the bible is akin to christian conversion today?

Could you be that clueless? Could you be that dishonest?

I am referring to what has been called "The Great Commission".

And is the "Great Commission" in Deut? Is it in Lev? What are you "referring" to homer? Cause it seems to change every time you fake another controversy.

Every time we examine you, we find empty nonsense and Fakery.

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#7

Stephen

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Stephen

02.05.2020 10:27AM

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02.05.2020 10:27AM

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@ethang5

So in simple English , You have lied and repeatedly lied about what is in your own scripture because you cannot explain them away without doing so.

Those verses are clearly NOT INCLUSIVE of any other peoples or nations.

Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the lord, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

SO! Can you explain to those reading here what it is that you find INCLUSIVE about Ammonites or Moabites being EXCLUDED and forbidden from entering the assembly of the Lord? or simply stop with your persistent and continuous lies.

And god also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

And the exclusiveness, intolerance and racism is eye watering in those verses above showing absolutely no INCLUSIVENESS whatsoever!

Lets take them one at a time and maybe you can explain the "INCLUSIVENESS" in these bias racists verses;

Deuteronomy 7:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

Why don't you explain to us where the inclusiveness you keep insisting on is shown in that verse? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Ezra 9:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
9 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites,

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Ezra 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

Nehemiah 13 On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;

Why don't you explain to us where the "inclusiveness" you keep insisting on is shown in that verse above? Or stop telling bare faced lies!

I repeat-

so what is to be made of this "Make disciples of all the nations", from (Matthew 28:19) when the sc

#8

ethang5

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ethang5

02.05.2020 03:50PM

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02.05.2020 03:50PM

Those verses are clearly NOT INCLUSIVE of any other peoples or nations.

You said the message was not inclusive, not isolated verses. You are wrong.

Can you explain to....

I already have homer. You said the Great Commission was not inclusive. That isolated verse is not the Great Commission.

Repeating your debunked post is called spamming. You said this.

I am referring to the Great commission.

Were you lying? Confused? Being dishonest? Dodge away.

The great commission is not in the OT.

Thomas, a disciple of Jesus, converted an Ethiopian. The Ethiopian was not a Jew. Thomas did not seem confused in the least. And it was Jesus who sent Thomas to witness to that Ethiopian.

How do you explain that? You cannot. Where is the "confusion"? Only in your tortured head.

You dodge every question and point in my post and spam your nonsense again. Why? Because you are empty and bitter. You have nothing. Your posts are like the chirping of crickets. Void of real content.