Does Religion Cause Delusion?

Author: Salixes
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#1
Salixes
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Or are religious people deluded to start with?

If we look at the first question, we would need to consider the effect religion has on followers.
For example, followers are required to believe in an entity that is invisible, silent and completely unproven.
Also, the fundamental principals of religions state that humans have a "soul". Again there is not one piece of evidence to support such a concept and the word soul is normally used as a metaphor.
To this extent, could we say that religion influences or even, forces followers to become deluded.

It could be that religious followers are deluded regardless of religion and find themselves attracted to the abstract, nature of believing in an unknown, contrived entity. For example, comprehensive research and authoritative studies have concluded:
"The God gene hypothesis proposes that human spirituality is influenced by heredity and that a specific gene, called vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2), predisposes humans towards spiritual or mystic experiences."

Could the delusion in some religious followers be due to both factors, i.e., hereditary and conditional? In which case would some religious followers be more deluded than others
#2
ronjs
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@Salixes
Sounds like you have already reached a conclusion,so you not really asking a question,so much as making a statement
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#3
Salixes
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@ronjs
I wasn't aware of reaching a conclusion.
What sort of conclusion do you think I supposedly reached?
#4
ethang5
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@Salixes
I wasn't aware of reaching a conclusion.
Maybe you're deluded.
#5
Mopac
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@Salixes
Certainly, bad religion leads to delusion.

Everyone to some extent suffers from delusion.


followers are required to believe in an entity that is invisible, silent and completely unproven.

I assume you are speaking of God. It is impossible to prove God when it isn't understood what God means. The Ultimate Reality is God. Accepting the existence of God is a simple matter of accepting that absolute Truth exists. The only alternative is nihilism.

fundamental principals of religions state that humans have a "soul". Again there is not one piece of evidence to support such a concept
The Greek word that gets translated into the English word "soul" is psyche.
If the soul doesn't exist, then psychology and psychiatry have no scientific basis, because these areas of study have everything to do with the soul.


Merriam-Webster has as a definition of religion "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."


That being the case what can be considered a religion may be more broad than what you realize. For example, a good and true scientist would be faithful to the scientific method! 

In a lot of languages, religion is understood simply as a way of life. 

What is good religion? To recognize that there is One God, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. To love this God with all your heart, soul, and mind. If you love The Truth, naturally you will love what exists in Truth. Love every human as being made in the image of God, possessing the noetic faculties to recognize God and walk in The Way of Truth. Love nature as the breathe of God fills all of it and gives it life. Work on yourself, to walk in The Eternal Way of Truth, listening to it's voice, and discarding that in your psche that keeps you from abiding in The Way.


Truthfully, those who believe there is no Ultimate Reality are deluded. Truly those who believe they practice no religion are deluded.

What gives your life value? What are you obsessed with? What influences and motivates you? There you will find the idols that come between you and The Truth. In your adoration of these created things, you have your devotion to gods.


But there is One True God, The Truth itself, and true religion is to worship God in Trinity. That is, to worship The Ultimate Reality in Spirit and in Truth. To abide in The Eternal Way.








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#6
Salixes
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@ethang5
The issue is whether religious followers are deluded inherently or by becoming religious.
Do you have any comment to offer on the issue?

#7
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@Salixes
People that Beliving in a God thing ummmmmmmmmmm, seem join one of these religious groups because of it. 

Common sense right?
If You believe in god ,,,,,,  YOU JOIN A RELIGIOUS GROUP

No But as a atheist, yeah.  Religion causes me delusions.
Or 
Or

Religion doesn't cause delusions. Religion(s) do. 

Religion started causing delusion the very day a SECOND religious group ran similar. ( similtaneis.) How do you spell that word? 
Or
Religion does not cause delusion if you are in the correct one. ( if there is one.) 

Oh crap 
Hey Sal?
Look I'm going to need another hour on this question before i go locking in my answer..
Cool?
Cool
Good day.

#8
ethang5
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@Salixes
I offered my comment on the issue.

You are unaware that you've reached a conclusion. You are asking about delusion no? Most deluded people are unaware they are deluded.

Are you religious?
#9
ethang5
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@Deb-8-a-bull
If You believe in god ,,,,,,  YOU JOIN A RELIGIOUS GROUP
If you believe in communication ,,,,,, YOU JOIN A DEBATE GROUP

Spooky!

Lol. Deb, I know it makes perfect sense to you inside your head.
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#10
Salixes
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@Mopac
You have made a series of errors in your post.
For example confusticating "proof" of God with "accepting" God then making an unconnected, meaningless conclusion.

And: "If the soul doesn't exist, then psychology and psychiatry have no scientific basis, because these areas of study have everything to do with the soul." is an incorrect statement since both psychology and psychiatry are sciences regardless of having anything to do with the soul.

"Truthfully, those who believe there is no Ultimate Reality are deluded. Truly those who believe they practice no religion are deluded." is completely wrong and unfounded. In fact the converse applies.

delusion | di'ˈlu:ːz(e)n noun: an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

The belief of God is idiosyncratic and there is nothing in reality that supports the notion nor is there any rational argument (for the existence of God)
The fact is that those who believe there is a God are deluded.

You have also failed to address the three questions of the subject, being, does religion cause delusion or are religious followers deluded to start with, or are both factors at play?

Do you have a valid argument to the subject at all?
If so, what is it? 
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#11
Salixes
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@ethang5
 I made no conclusion whatsoever to the subject questions.

You made no comment whatsoever regarding the issue since it had nothing to do with whether or not I am deluded.

Perhaps you could now offer a valid comment or argument relating to the topic if indeed you do have anything to offer.

#12
ethang5
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@Salixes
I made no conclusion whatsoever to the subject questions. 
Sure you did. You are just unaware you did, a sure sign of delusion.

This is conclusion.
...followers are required to believe in an entity that is invisible, silent and completely unproven.

This is a conclusion.
...comprehensive research and authoritative studies have concluded:

This is a conclusion.
...Could the delusion in some religious followers be due to both factors...

...it had nothing to do with whether or not I am deluded.
That depends on whether you are religious no? So I asked you. Now tell us. Are you religious?

Perhaps you could now offer a valid comment or argument...
Valid to whom? Validated by whom?

Your question is riddled with false assumptions. To answer your question, you must be helped past your unwarranted assumptions.

I can help you if you are open to learning. Would you like me to assist you?
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#13
Salixes
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@ethang5
"followers are required to believe in an entity that is invisible, silent and completely unproven." is not a conclusion. It is an established fact that is a condition of my argument and not a conclusion of the subject.

You claimed incorrectly that I made false assumptions, failed to cite any false assumptions nor indeed explained why such "assumptions" are false.

You have also not addressed the subject at all.

I'm sure you would agree that arguing about semantics and introducing sidesteps is hardly conducive to decent, fair commentary.

Would you kindly stick to the subject?
#14
ethang5
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@Salixes
"followers are required to believe in an entity that is invisible, silent and completely unproven." is not a conclusion. 
Sure it is. You even make another conclusion off this false one, that the religious are therefore deluded.

It is an established fact...
Your proof? Or are we to take it on faith?

...that is a condition of my argument 
You mean a conclusion of your argument. Semantics work when you use it huh?

You claimed incorrectly that I made false assumptions,
You have failed to cite any incorrect claims I've made nor indeed explained why such "claims" are incorrect.

..failed to cite any false assumptions nor indeed explained why such "assumptions" are false.
First, I told you not every religion posits a heaven.

Next, you have only asserted that God is "completely unproven". Can you support that assertion?

Finally, you treat the "God gene hypothesis" as if it's a fact even while you call it a hypothesis.

You have also not addressed the subject at all.
That is strange, as I've been addressing your post. Is the subject not in your post?

Would you kindly stick to the subject?
The subject is that religious people are deluded, right? So I'm asking you, "are you religious?"

Am I not supposed to ask you questions?
#15
Mopac
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@Salixes
You do not understand what I am saying.

The Ultimate Reality is God.

Do you deny the existence of Ultimate Reality?

#16
TheRealNihilist
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@Salixes
The issue is whether religious followers are deluded inherently or by becoming religious.
Do you have any comment to offer on the issue?
I do.
Anyone can be delusional. Religion can be a way of showing this delusion. If you were born into a Christian family it is likely you would stay Christian. You just happen to be lucky that the cards in a certain time were dealt for you to not be Christian or be delusional sticking to the topic. 

What was your aim in doing this or what kind of answer would change your mind?  
#17
ronjs
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@Salixes
You have concluded that anyone with religious beliefs is deluded.
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#18
Salixes
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@ronjs
I made no such conclusion at all and you have also failed to quote where and/or how I (allegedly) made such a conclusion.
Nevertheless, you are not really making an effort to address the topic.
Contrary to your assertion (so you not really asking a question) I did pose questions.
Do you mind not trying to sidetrack the discussion and address those questions?
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#19
Salixes
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@ethang5
I'm sure you would agree that it is absurd to demand someone to disprove something that is not even proven in the first place.

("The subject is that religious people are deluded, right?")

If you look at the top of the page you will see that the subject is:
"Does religion cause delusion, or are religious people deluded to start with"

So far you have offered not one discussion or argument to the subject one way or the other.
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#20
Salixes
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@Mopac
I understand exactly what you are saying.

I do not deny that "ultimate reality" is God.
However the term "ultimate reality" is a metaphorical concept and has no substantial meaning to it whatsoever.

You made a bold assertion,... "Truthfully, those who believe there is no Ultimate Reality are deluded. Truly those who believe they practice no religion are deluded." without qualifying it with evidence or reason.
Indeed, such a statement is wrong and contradicts the fact that anyone who believes in God is deluded.
I have already established such a fact in post #10 and your contradiction is totally invalid. The words "truthfully" and "truly" do not constitute validity to your statement in any way.

I did ask if you have any discussion or argument about the subject.
Are you going to stop trying to divert the subject and actually make an attempt at properly addressing it?

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#21
Salixes
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@TheRealNihilist
True, anyone can be delusional and it would be fair to say that everyone has suffered from delusion to some degree at times.

However, what I am talking about here is people who are deluded a good deal of the time.
Anyone who believes in God is deluded, a fact that I have clearly qualified in post #10.

My concern is that perhaps religion exacerbates the degree of delusion in its followers.
For example, Christian Churches not only constantly confirm the presence of an imaginary friend but also promote other idiosyncratic beliefs such as possessing a soul and earning an afterlife for being loyal.

The "God gene" hypothesis is but one of many research studies that indicate that some people have an inbuilt disposition to accept supernatural phenomena and accept things at face value.



#22
Athias
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@Salixes
True, anyone can be delusional and it would be fair to say that everyone has suffered from delusion to some degree at times.
This is contradiction. If delusions are typified by "mental disorder," and "mental disorders" are relative with respect to "normal" behavior, then everyone's suffering delusions of some degree would make delusions "normal"; hence not a mental disorder or a "delusion."

Anyone who believes in God is deluded, a fact that I have clearly qualified in post #10.
You've qualified it, but it's not a fact. And this is the conclusion both ronjs and ethang5 were referencing.

My concern is that perhaps religion exacerbates the degree of delusion in its followers.
Do you have any empirical data, or logically consistent arguments?

The "God gene" hypothesis is but one of many research studies that indicate that some people have an inbuilt disposition to accept supernatural phenomena and accept things at face value.
An "imaginary" premise on which to base pathologizing religious belief.
#23
Mopac
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@Salixes

The Ultimate Reality is reality as it truly is.

There is nothing metaphorical about it.


Ifnit doesn't exist, nothing truly exists.


That's nihilism. It is self defeating.



#24
ethang5
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@Salixes
Im sure you would agree that it is absurd to demand someone to disprove something that is not even proven in the first place.
If the person has used the unproven as the lynchpin of his argument, then, no I would not agree. Thus I dismiss your argument as unproven nonsense.

If you look at the top of the page you will see that the subject is:
"Does religion cause delusion, or are religious people deluded to start with"
Which means that to you, religious people are deluded, and you just want to know the source of that delusion. You start at a conclusion.

So far you have offered not one discussion or argument to the subject one way or the other
Your subject is illogical, and I think you know it is. Religious people are no more deluded than you. 

You appear to be unaware that your OP is a conclusion based on premises you admit are unproven.

That is my argument. You're still dodging my question. Are you religious? I ask because you show signs of delusion.

But if you only want people to answer your fake question without questions of their own, have a nice day.
#25
TheRealNihilist
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@Salixes
True, anyone can be delusional and it would be fair to say that everyone has suffered from delusion to some degree at times.
This is cool to know.
However, what I am talking about here is people who are deluded a good deal of the time.
Anyone who believes in God is deluded, a fact that I have clearly qualified in post #10.
Sure but are you trying to persuade people to just give your side to it?
My concern is that perhaps religion exacerbates the degree of delusion in its followers.
For example, Christian Churches not only constantly confirm the presence of an imaginary friend but also promote other idiosyncratic beliefs such as possessing a soul and earning an afterlife for being loyal.
This can be true.
The "God gene" hypothesis is but one of many research studies that indicate that some people have an inbuilt disposition to accept supernatural phenomena and accept things at face value.
Can you give me an example of accepting things at face value? 
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#26
Salixes
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@ethang5
I have proven and given sound evidence that those who believe in God are deluded.
You have not successfully refuted nor challenged the evidence and simply calling my argument illogical is not only bad judgment but wrong.
Furthermore, you have completely failed to even attempt to address the subject questions.
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#27
Salixes
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@TheRealNihilist
Good question there and in fact, there is a very well known test that psychologists (and employers) use to determine whether or not people accept things at face value. In nearly all cases respondents believing supernatural phenomena were identified. it's a very simple math problem and it is not a matter of the answer being right or wrong but what it indicates.

I purchase a bat and ball for $110.00.
If the bat costs $100.00 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?
#28
ronjs
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@Salixes
You have concluded that anyone with religious beliefs is deluded, your whole post indicates that that is what you believe, but, people are deluded about all kinds of things and many don't need an outside source, like religion, to cause their delusion and in some cases whether one is deluded or not is simply a matter of opinion. One man's delusion is another man's reality. Flat earthers consider their stance to be real, whereas others see them as deluded.

#29
ethang5
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@Salixes
I have proven and given sound evidence that those who believe in God are deluded.
Yet you claimed you had not reached that conclusion! And what you offered was not sound evidence, it was half-baked premises that your conclusion did not logically follow.

You have not successfully refuted nor challenged the evidence..
I cannot if you refuse to answer questions. You dodge my questions precisely because you know it would refute your so called evidence.

..and simply calling my argument illogical is not only bad judgment but wrong.
I pointed out 3 errors you made in your OP showing the premises you built argument on were false, thus, your conclusion is false. Ignoring them does not invalidate them.

Furthermore, you have completely failed to even attempt to address the subject questions.
I have. The questions are illogical as the religious are not necessarily deluded, and you may be deluded yourself, which would make your claim's validity questionable.

Just like all the other anti-theist here, you just want a platform from which you can post your biased opinions and call them facts. You do not want to entertain questions, or engage in reasoned debate.

But this is a debate site. Your poor and biased arguments will be exposed with logic whether you honestly answer questions or not. As a liberal, you will see this as an attack, but you will grow and learn.
#30
BrotherDThomas
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@Salixes



.
Salixes,

ETHANG5 QUOTE TO YOU: "Maybe you're deluded."

Well, that's it for you, you're done in this forum!  You might as well pack up and leave to find another forum because ol' ethang5 has stated such a "slap down quip" towards your presence within this forum, that how can you ever recover from it?  LOL



.