John the Baptist Part 1 - Confrontation

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We are introduced to the Baptist the so called forerunner to Jesus and now as a fully grown man by the gospeller Matthew like so:

Matthew 3: (NIV).

3 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+3%3A1-6&version=NIV
  The bible doesn’t say if indeed the Baptist was a priest or not, but the reader should not be surprised that in John’s gospel at . John 1:28.NIV we can read

1:28 “This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A28&version=NIV

And one shouldn't be surprised at all at this `coincidence` because this just happened to be  the very place where Jesus was anointed,  met a leper, ate supper, lived off  women "of their substance" and of course brought a " dead " man back to life.


So  at 1:28  it is here then at Bethany that John routinely baptized at or near his place of residence and here it was that Jesus came to be baptized in the nearby river Jordan. John is depicted as a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but this couldn't be further from the truth as we read clearly from the scriptures themselves;

John 1:35 The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A35+&version=NIV
And

John 3:25  And again at  we read; “Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying”.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A25+&version=NIV



So John , quite apart from being a  hermit  "coming out of the wideness" as the gospels will have us all believe, John was, it appears, to be the leader of his own band of disciples. 

John, sometime later tells us

John 1:33 “I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’” https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A33&version=NIV

This has to be a complete lie. The mother of Jesus was said to be cousin to Elizabeth the mother of the Baptist: 

There was Mary the mother of Jesus, daughter of Heli (Luke 3:23), cousin of Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptizer (Luke 1:36).
And John the Baptist  recognised Jesus  when it is said that John "leaped in the womb" when Jesus' Mother Mary went to visit Elizabeth her cousin . Luke 1:40...... but he did not know him? .

Jesus then also appears seemingly out of nowhere also a fully grown man when we read this:



Matthew 3:13-17 (KJV)
The Baptism of Jesus

13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

This is supposed to convince the reader that John, a leader in his own right was being subservient to Jesus, the younger of the two.

But I urge the reader to read it carefully. This gospel states very clearly that Jesus went to the river for one reason only, "to be baptized by John."  

John's clear response was  to forbid Jesus from being baptized. 


This is nothing short of a confrontation concerning whom should be anointing whom. In plain English Jesus is demanding that John anoint him, where as John is telling Jesus it is the other way around and that it is Jesus who should be anointing him. He finished this by practically saying ' and you have the nerve and audacity to come to me'! They were rivals from the start and from before Jesus was even born if we are expected to believe the gymnastic in the womb story.Luke 1:40

Anyway, for reasons unexplained, John  it appears to cave in to Jesus' demand.


15 "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him".<<<< caved in.


16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

We have to remember  that John was supposed to have been the forerunner to the Christ according to Christians , bringing the good news and foretelling the coming of the Messiah.   But John didn't  even recognize Jesus when he did appear even though he has told any that would listen, that:


27 He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”








 




#2
BrotherDThomas
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@Stephen



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With your disturbing desertion to Christianity relative to John the Baptist, where as a TRUE Christian like myself, I have learned to accept these biblical anomalies and just move on. Expect the likes of Tradesecret and ethang5 to bring forth more of their wishful thinking and smoke screens in the name of Satan regarding your topic at hand!


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@BrotherDThomas
Expect the likes of Tradesecret and ethang5 to bring forth more of their wishful thinking and smoke screens in the name of Satan regarding your topic at hand!


Hello Brother D. T.  Nice to hear from you.
As for the expectation you quite rightly have every reason to predict, I welcome them both.
 
As to this particular subject concerning this obvious rivalry between Jesus and the Baptist I actually expect them both to either put up false claims, put words into the mouths of the gospel writers and or characters, rewrite biblical verses, tell me I am reading it all wrong and that I do not understand the scriptures,  to defend against what I have to say.  Or simply steer clear of the subject altogether. The latter is more likely.

What I don't expect to see is clear and factual proof as to why my opinion about both Jesus and his rivalry with the Baptist is completely wrong. I believe the evidence is there in the scripture to prove me right.

I also have reason to believe that there is good scriptural and extra biblical evidence that Jesus may have had a hand in the Baptists demise. I mean, if what I have say is right,  then surely,  "thou shalt have no other god but me"  would clearly come into play. Would God/Jesus put up with someone attempting to usurp him as supreme over all his creation? 



#4
ethang5
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Lol!
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@ethang5



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ethang-5,

We can see that you are still the "one acronym wonder" to biblical axioms instead of engaging them, what's new? NOTHING!

Was your time off due to having a "plethora" of dizzy spells because of your Satanic "spin doctoring" of Jesus' TRUE words? Oh, and when is your version of the JUDEO-Christian Bible coming out that includes all of the comical spin you have presented within this forum? Any time soon? Can I get a signed copy when you do bring forth yet another "version" of the Bible?

My Salvation Bus broke down, so until it is fixed I have the time to Bible Slap the Devil Speak of pseudo-christians like you and your cohorts. The last time, I had to hire a secretary to file all of your blatant ungodly rhetoric as you continually stepped in the proverbial poo!!!

Do you still accept the ungodly Protestantism beliefs, or did you evolve to leave that comical and contradicting faith in the name of Jesus?



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#6
Mopac
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@BrotherDThomas
No, both you and Stephen are deserving of mockery. Ethan is right to laugh.

No one believes you are a real Christian, and Stephen has gone mad in his vain imaginings.


You are both here to be clowns. To call you two clowns is a great deal more respect than either of you give to this subject matter or those who debate you. 

Humility.

Charity.

Strive for these virtues and everyone will have a better time.








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@Mopac


mopac,

YOUR ONCE AGAIN EMBARRASSING QUOTE: "No, both you and Stephen are deserving of mockery. Ethan is right to laugh. No one believes you are a real Christian, and Stephen has gone mad in his vain imaginings."

In a hypothetical sense, if what you say is true, which it is not, then imagine how you must feel once again in knowing that a non-christian outright OWNS YOU AND YOUR FAITH as explicitly shown whenever you "try" to engage me!  LOL

I have already "Bible Slapped" you silly many times, and the last one being in the following link where you have remained eerily silent because of it, therefore, I suggest that you accept your position of not even coming close to engaging me, as is evident since my timely arrival. Do you understand?

MOPAC LINK ONCE AGAIN WHERE HE ALLOWS HIMSELF TO BE EMBARRASSED ABOUT HIS FAITH:



#8
Mopac
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@BrotherDThomas
You are obviously some troll's caricature of a TOTAL ASSHOLE. Definitely not a Christian by any true sense of what that means.

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@Mopac
You are both here to be clowns. To call you two clowns is a great deal more respect than either of you give to this subject matter or those who debate you. 

More name calling.  And you can mock away until your heart is content, but please just for once, support your opinions and you mocking with reason and factual explanation.


this subject matter
The subject matter is there to be scrutinized, probed and questioned and I say John the Baptist and his Johnanites were rivals to Jesus  and his breakaway sect. John continued to have his own disciples after Jesus' baptism, after his arrest and many remained faithful to his memory and his teachings after his murder. 

But you wouldn't know this because it has never  been pointed out to you or for you. You are simply far too incapable to think for yourself as are all sheep.



 You are obviously some troll's caricature of a TOTAL ASSHOLE.

Very Christian that and in CAPITOLS too". I must be hitting nerve Mopac to have you raise your saintly voice in anger instead of  addressing the topic in hand in a calm, collected fashion.



Definitely not a Christian by any true sense of what that means.

Correct. But that is irrelevant to the topic .

I bet you just cannot wait for John the Baptist  part two and three can you.
#10
disgusted
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@Mopac
Humility.
Charity.
You demonstrate neither of these "qualities"
#11
Mopac
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@Stephen
No one takes your conspiracy theories seriously, you're a crank.

You probably know it too.

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@Mopac
Nobody takes your absurd beliefs seriously.
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My Salvation Bus broke down...

Lol!! I don't think you were even on it dee dee. but something surely has broken down with you.
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@Mopac
you're a crank.

More name calling. You are doing this more often by the day now aren't you. Smacks of desperation to me.

Jesus had motive and opportunity to  have the Baptist murdered and by all accounts  he was killed , wasn't he?

Here's one just for you Mopac.  Why didn't Jesus raise his cousin, the `greatest prophet of all` John the Baptist from the dead as it is believed he did so for Lazarus the "disciple he loved" ? 

Take your time sunshine.









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@Mopac
He does.
#16
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@Stephen
You are the first person I have ever heard in my life insinuate that Jesus murdered John the baptist.

Come on, you're a troll disguised as the Alex Jones of antichrists, armed with your skeptics annotated bible, and a zeal only matched by trolls disguised as bible thumping autists who are impervious to conversation.




#17
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@ethang5
I don't believe he does. He is only saying whatever he thinks might sound convincing. He doesn't believe a thing he says. He sees a goal, and from that point his intent is to reach that goal by any means necessary.


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Stephen
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@Mopac
--> @Stephen

You are the first person I have ever heard in my life insinuate that Jesus murdered John the baptist.



That's because you have lived in the shadow of your domineering elders Mopac. Who have never pointed out to you that Jesus was a rival to  his cousin, "the greatest prophet"  John the Baptist.


you're a troll  .......


More Name calling does not answer the question does it?  Or did you miss my question?

Here ya go, take your time.


  Why didn't Jesus raise his cousin, the `greatest prophet of all` John the Baptist from the dead as it is believed he did so for Lazarus the "disciple he loved" ? 


He doesn't believe a thing he says.

Oh but I do, religiously.
#19
Mopac
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@Stephen
I don't care what you believe about our scriptures. 


What do you really believe?


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@Mopac
He knows he's a crank. The fact that he consistently dodges questions that would expose him proves it.

He allows us to expand on biblical topics and his absurd responses and comical dodging actually enhance our answers. I like him.
#21
Mopac
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@ethang5
Alright, I'll be nicer to the clown.
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@Mopac
I don't care what you believe about our scriptures. 

Then stop getting so upset, if you " DON'T CARE"


What do you really believe?

Make your mind up. You have just told me " I don't care what you believe about our scriptures".  You appear to losing it Mopac. You should take a volunteer break like Ehang5 did. He seems to have came back all invigorated and ready to defend the ambiguous half stories in the scriptures. Although, he has not started off to well.  he seems to be spending his time defending you and taking offence on your behalf. 

Would you not say that are proud to be one of the lord flock, Mopac? Is the lord your shepherd or are your leaders and teachers your shepherd? 




#23
ethang5
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@Mopac
Lol!

See how he dodged your question? Par for the course. Just destroy his lame arguments, and let him dance the obtuse.

Everyone sees it. And its healthy entertainment.
#24
disgusted
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@Mopac
Humility.
Charity.
You demonstrate neither of these "qualities"

#25
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@Mopac



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Mopac,

YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE: "You are obviously some troll's caricature of a TOTAL ASSHOLE. Definitely not a Christian by any true sense of what that means."

Oh my, I have hit the same nerve that Stephen did which shows everyone that since you can't explain said passages away, you have to take the option of calling others despicable names! Look at your foul language that spews forth from your Satanic mouth!  You are no more a Christian than Dr. Franklin and ethang5!

Mopac, you go directly against the scriptures with your little boy potty mouth, and you want to be called a Christian? NOT! 

"But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth." (Colossians 3:8)

"Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. (Ephesians 5:4)



OBSERVATION: YOU HAVE YET TO ADDRESS MY BIBLICAL QUOTES TO YOU WITHIN THIS THREAD, OTHER THAN TO RUN AWAY FROM THEM LIKE ETHANG5 HAS CONTINUALLY DONE IN THE PAST!  You are to defend the faith, and NOT run away from it, understood pseudo-christian?

"But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect," (1 Peter 3:15)


Mopac, you need to take a break from DEBATEART like the equally bible ignorant fool ethang5 did, and heal your wounds that have been easily inflicted upon you by biblical axioms that you just cannot deal with and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath, understood?



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#26
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@disgusted


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disgusted,

Mopac and ethang5 represent the true MO of being a pseudo-christian. When I personally engage these two minions of Satan, and to make it somewhat fair to them, I feel that I should tie my hands behind me, blindfold myself, and type with my feet, but even under these circumstances, they will still lose to the TRUE inspired words of Jesus that I bring forth in His behalf!

These fake Christians are who they "pretend to be" and Jesus is certainly watching them act in this manner!  (Hebrews 4:13)


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#27
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@BrotherDThomas
Mopac and ethang5 represent the true MO of being a pseudo-christian. When I personally engage these two minions of Satan

Lol wait, is this coming from the same nugget head that claims he has a brothel ministry and uses it to his own perverted advantage??
#28
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@BrotherDThomas
...you need to take a break from DEBATEART like the equally bible ignorant fool ethang5 did,...
We can see your break didn't mature you any dee dee.

mopac - [Dee Dee is] Definitely not a Christian by any true sense of what that means.

Stephen - Correct.
Oops! Dee Dee, I think you're not even fooling the other fake poster.
#29
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@EtrnlVw



.EtrnLVw,

YOUR MISGUIDED QUOTE: "Lol wait, is this coming from the same nugget head that claims he has a brothel ministry and uses it to his own perverted advantage??"


Yes, barring the "nugget head" inference.  Listen, in spreading the gospel as a TRUE Christian, I do what I have to do, simple math.  The last thing upon the mind of a sexy brothel harlot is to accept Jesus into their lives because that would take away their exorbitant amount of money made daily. Therefore, you have to enter their lair to be able to talk to them about the Savior. In other words, you don't get something for nothing!

Remember, I am doing this for Jesus, whereas subjectively, it is better than hanging around with 12 men on a daily basis, get it?


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#30
BrotherDThomas
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@ethang5



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ethang5,

I truly have to hand it to you, in that you are still breathing subsequent to my continued Bible Slappings that I gave you the last time! I have run across many pseudo-christians like you in these forums, but I have to admit, you are in the top 5 of the most Satanic apologetic spin doctor fake Christians on the internet, bar none!

What is the problem in many Internet forums is the fact that no one has actually seen or engaged a TRUE Christian that accepts or follows all of the JUDEO-Christian bible like the Brother D., therefore many call me a fake, when in actuality, I am more of a Christian than 99.99 percent of the ones that call themselves Christians, period!

Again, in the name of Jesus, I will correct you at will when you proffer misguided notions relative to the Christian faith, understood? Sure you do at the expense of your further embarrassment.


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