a person said. speaking in tongues is not evidence of salvation
would this be blashemy? i think it is based on mark 16:17.
blashemy?
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mnoqrs
anyone?
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@Melcharaz
yeah I did.
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@Melcharaz
You obviously need to pee.
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@Melcharaz
Speaking in other languages is not evidence of salvation. Non-believers can do this as well.
The miracle that occured at Pentacost is understood by the Church as having a parallel to the tower of babel. That, while at the tower of babel language was confused among men, at pentecost people of different languages were able to understand each other.
One of the evidences that the early church would present to pagans is that the gospel is preached in every language, and Christ is worshipped in every tongue.
The Way is universal.
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@disgusted
Speaking in tongues is not babbling gibberish. There is no history of this being a practice among Christians before the 19th century. Plenty of evidence of this being a practice among practitioners of the dark arts and pagans even in Ancient times.
Speaking in tongues, as it is often idiomized, refers to the speaking of other languages.
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@Mopac
I don't know why you wrote this to me but I have some information for you. At "pentecost" everyone understood Donald Duck but no-one understood Pluto.
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@Mopac
Speaking in tongues, as it is often idiomized, refers to the speaking of other languages.
I agree. it is not a biblical miracle or a biblical or religious phenomena, or a curse from god..... for once. It is a simple case that some of Jesus' disciples were able to speak another language including Arabic, Greek and Aramaic. Most if not all of Jesus' "12" were rich traders with businesses ( so much for rich men & eye of a needle crap and give to the poor bs), and would have had to know at least Greek asides Aramaic.
What does appear to be some kind of explainable phenomena is people who wake from comas speaking another language.
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@Stephen
You have a very uncharitable attitude towards the apostles and the church.
Just know that those who show no mercy will be shown no mercy, and those who judge unrighteously will be judged accordingly.
You accuse the apostles because you are unable to fsce your own hypocrisy. Pride and self love is a deadly root that supports a tree of iniquity.
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@Mopac
You have a very uncharitable attitude towards the apostles and the church.
They were all rich. Jesus had surrounded himself with RICH influential people with business' and high positions. You can deny this fact as much as you like but your scripture makes it quite clear.
You accuse the apostles because you are unable to fsce your own hypocrisy.
I am getting a bit fed up with you calling me a liar and hypocrite. Its about time you told us all what it is I have lied about and where have I shown hypocrisy. With a nice dollop of evidence to prove your claim. You never know, you might even be correct about me and I will apologies to you profusely and wholeheartedly.
So, when your ready.
They were all rich. Jesus had surrounded himself with RICH influential people with business' and high positions. You can deny this fact as much as you like but your scripture makes it quite clear.
I don't need to deny anything, you are the one condemning rich people.
I am getting a bit fed up with you calling me a liar and hypocrite. Its about time you told us all what it is I have lied about and where have I shown hypocrisy. With a nice dollop of evidence to prove your claim. You never know, you might even be correct about me and I will apologies to you profusely and wholeheartedly.So, when your ready.
You are motivated by hatred, it's obvious.
You don't know what we believe, and you are wasting your time with your crusade, because you will never fool someone who is enlightened.
Why is typing in tongues less impressive?
Ahomina shambalallifa follilca rhino bobiilin huffal puffal ssssssssssssssss.
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@ludofl3x
As I pointed out, gibberish is not legit speaking in tongues.
Though, waving your arms up in their air going "Ugh! Raaah! Graaaaugh!" in frustration can be a legitimate prayer.
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@Mopac
As I pointed out, gibberish is not legit speaking in tongues.
How do you identify legit speaking in tongues from sham speaking in tongues, exactly?
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@ludofl3x
How do you identify legit speaking in tongues from sham speaking in tongues, exactly?
Excellent point.
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@ludofl3x
Legit speaking in tongues is an actual human language, not scat singing.
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@3RU7AL
@ludofl3x
If you guys are confused about this issue, it's because the rise of "pentecostalism" has infected evangelical and protestant churches with the idea that speaking in gibberish is speaking in tongues.
The church has never recognized babbling in an ecstatic emotional gibberish as speaking in tongues.
I would go so far as to call it prelest.
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@Mopac
Excellent point.
How do you distinguish prelest from "authentic" spirituality?
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@3RU7AL
Authentic spirituality is not vague and full of woo. Authentic spirituality is abiding in The Way, not vain imaginings. It is the casting out of delusion, not the embracing of it. It is purifying of the heart, not trying to paint over it.
It is the very real discipline of taking into account the tool you are using to measure and making sure the lens is always clean and everything is calibrated.
Real spirituality is therepeutic and makes for a more rational, emotionally stable, and dispassionate person.
Fake spirituality is toxic and leads to irrationality, emotional instability, and slavery to passion.
Real spirituality is to abide in The Way, and it sculpts someone into being a living icon of The Truth.
Fake spirituality is preoccupation with created or imagined things, and often times serves no other purpose than to puff up the ego of someone who already is blindsided by their pride.
Real spirituality comes from humility.
Fake spirituality comes from pride.
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@Mopac
Just know that those who show no mercy will be shown no mercy,
Says who?
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@Melcharaz
Speaking in tongues is supposed to be edifying and there should be an interpreter present at the time.I have seen neither in churches I have attended where this is practised
Here's a good video on the topic.
C-3PO Crashes a Pentecostal Revival.
Trust me on this one.
8 days later
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@Mopac
They were all rich. Jesus had surrounded himself with RICH influential people with business' and high positions. You can deny this fact as much as you like but your scripture makes it quite clear.I don't need to deny anything, you are the one condemning rich people.
No. I think that if there was any condemnation concerning rich people, that it comes from the Lord Jesus himself:
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."Matthew 19:24
I have no reason to "condemn" anyone, rich or poor, as long as they have not done me or mine any harm. You nee to polish up on your bible studies mopac.
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@Stephen
You come back to this topic 10 days later not to contribute to it, but to save face?
Real classy
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@ronjs
Yeah, that is what the scriptures say. If done in church, it needs an interpreter.
In the Orthodox Church where we know the divine liturgy by heart, it acts as interpreter. So when the priest from Serbia comes to visit, and sings in his lines in Serbian, we know what he is singing even when we don't understand the language he speaks.
On the day of pentecost, we have a practice in our church of reciting the scripture of the day in every language that anyone can recite it in.
That is what speaking and interpreting tongues looks like.
Truly though, weeping while waving your arms skyward and going, "Aaaahg raaah!? weeerm gyeh!" Can be a legitimate prayer. It may be gibberish, but I wouldn't want anyone to think I'd say otherwise.
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@Mopac
You come back to this topic 10 days later not to contribute to it, but to save face?Real classy
Save face? For what!? And I didn't know that there was a rule concerning a time limit on when one can post a comment. Could you show me that rule and can you show us all where it is you think that I have "condemned rich people" like Jesus appears to do?
No I didn't think you could. You about as empty and redundant and spent as are all other devout Christians here when it comes to serious probing questions raised by these unreliable and ambiguous scriptures.
You are motivated by hatred, it's obvious.
No I am motivated by these anomalous ambiguous biblical half stories. And your total inability to defend them
You don't know what we believe,
Of course I do, silly billy. You believe in God, and Jesus and that the bible is the word of both them and the biblical writers. You believe in all of its purported miracles. You believe people were raised from the dead, but can never explain how this and many other miracles were actually achieved without invoking the supernatural.
and you are wasting your time with your crusade,
Opinion. And I am on no crusade, I don't have to defend a single thing and I am not preaching ; that will be your job, as all sheep of the flock of the shepherd Christ instructs you to do. It is called - The Great Commission, if my ever so old memory serves me correctly.
because you will never fool someone who is enlightened.
You are not understanding something here Mopac. Asking questions is not attempting to fool anyone. Such as this,
(A) Why did Jesus cure just a man of Leprosy and not cure all leprosy and banish it from the face of the earth altogether?
(B) Show me how I am fooling or attempting to fool anyone with this question?
You only need to answer question (B) because I understand that you have absolutely no chance of answering question (A), you are not "enlightened" enough.
So, when you are ready.
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@Stephen
Stop talking to me please, I don't care what you have to say.
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@Mopac
Stop talking to me please, I don't care what you have to say.
You come back to this topic 10 days later not to contribute to it, but to save face?Real classy
You have said that I have to "save face". Whatever for? You cannot make those types of claims and not expect anyone to ask you what it is I have to "save face" for of from.
You didn't need to respond at all come to that. But you came back with a ridiculous comment. So please explain or simply retract it. Its not to hard is it?
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@Stephen
I understand that you have problems with your ego, and that is why you feel it is necessary to defend yourself.
No one in the world cares about your insecurities.