Thoughts on the bsh1 resignation

Author: AvoidDeath

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Vader
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@TheRealNihilist
I simply responded to question, I don’t know what else you want 
Vader
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@TheRealNihilist
I didn’t defend them. Find evidence that I did
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@Lunatic
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@TheRealNihilist
goddamn it guys.
drama alert, got fricking frack 50 notifications in less than 24 hours.
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@Vader
I simply responded to question, I don’t know what else you want 
That question wasn't directed at you. You answering the questions for the them is you defending them.
I didn’t defend them. Find evidence that I did
You answering the question is you defending them. If you can't see that it is your problem since you haven't told me how that isn't defending the person I had the question for.

Do I have to make it clear that I am accusing Annie and Shab of things and I expect them to mount a defense? 
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@AvoidDeath
goddamn it guys.
drama alert, got fricking frack 50 notifications in less than 24 hours.
My problem was that this was supposed to be about the resignation about bsh1 then you decided most of the first comment to be your opinions about bsh1 not specifically about the resignation. 

I don't know about others you just have to speak to them when they decide to reply. 

Clear examples:

I've been on this site for 4 months, counting Gatorade, and I've seen a lot of good things bsh1 has done. But the recent stuff is complete and utter bullshit. (#UnbantheHam). I feel as if he did not do what was right for not just the community, but also the mods. This is just my opinion.
You have even made it clear with the last sentence you typed. It is that obvious.
According to bsh1 himself, he said that I was the former user Club. That is also bullshit, but I see where he is coming from. Also, he himself said that I could be Type1. And that is bullshit too. Maybe he does a lot of bullshit things, but he has done some good.
Yet again you are stating your problems with bsh1 then decide he did good without saying it. None of this addresses his resignation. These are your personal problems.
I am saying, I kind of believe in what Wylted/Dr.Franklin is doing with more community-based things, more of than just mods. Mods should be chosen by the community.
This has nothing to do with bsh1.
Finally, just saying, people that have bullied other people and have said racial stereotypes and defamed people should be held to a higher priority to mods then mulit-accounters. It's not fair to the multi accounter or the victim of the attacks.
I don't even know what you said here. I am guessing it is a general statement that racist talking points or insulted stated by people is worse than multi-accounts. Yet again nothing to do with bsh1's resignation. 
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@TheRealNihilist
How in that way is that defending them? It did not suggest that nor was I suggesting that. This argument you are picking with me is silly
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@Vader
How in that way is that defending them? It did not suggest that nor was I suggesting that. This argument you are picking with me is silly
Your intent does not matter so don't bring in something I have in no way proving you are lying or not. I even made it clear in my last comment. I am accusing them of something and expected a defense. You jumped in addressing the accusations which meant you are defending them. Can you not comprehend that?

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@TheRealNihilist
You said who they were, I said who they were. This is not an arguing point. I simply responded to your answers and what you asked. 

You do not make sense

And to answer your question, every deserves an equal say in the community here no matter what the forum post is. You spammed your way to 3k and yet you see no one us treating you below the line of what they are. If we are being honest, you deserve about 2k forum posts abnd DRF deserves like 1.4K. They are allowed to the same opinion you are
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@TheRealNihilist
If anything, if you want to make the debate, they are more important and have more say. They were the base of DDO and came onto DART too. They didn't like bsh1 as mod, but they hailed from a site with great glory
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@Vader
You said who they were, I said who they were. This is not an arguing point. I simply responded to your answers and what you asked. 

You do not make sense

You are talking past my point. Maybe actually address it instead talking to about I didn't make. I made it so clear. I am now beginning to think you are intentionally missing the clear point I made instead doing what every other ideologue does.

And to answer your question, every deserves an equal say in the community here no matter what the forum post is. You spammed your way to 3k and yet you see no one us treating you below the line of what they are. If we are being honest, you deserve about 2k forum posts abnd DRF deserves like 1.4K. They are allowed to the same opinion you are
1) If everything is equal why is there a leaderboard showing the inequality?
2) Please hypocrite you were treating Dr.Franklin different for spamming.
3) You don't know what I deserve or not. Stop preaching to me like some sort of pastor and realize me spamming was not against the rules. I don't care about your purity tests because all that matters is if it was against the rules or not. Turns out it wasn't until they changed it. Please don't preach from an implied higher position when you were doing the exact same thing
4) You don't get a say on who is deserving at what when you say this to me while also making it clear here that you dislike me. Making it really clear that you had something against me as a person instead of actually making a good argument. That is if I disregard what you said in this very thread.
If anything, if you want to make the debate, they are more important and have more say. They were the base of DDO and came onto DART too. They didn't like bsh1 as mod, but they hailed from a site with great glory
If you do not see this as a defense then I need a second opinion because this feels like yet another gaslighting on this site. 
Castin
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If there had ever been any real intent to molest a minor, I would never in a million years have compared this to PC culture. That would be inexcusable.

Yet there was no intent. A 24-year-old merely made a dirty joke to someone he forgot was a couple of days from 17. He should've remembered, especially as a mod, but he made a mistake.

And sorry guys, but treating something done with no malicious intent with a level of outrage equal with real malicious intent does remind me of PC culture.

There really are sexual predators online trying to prey on minors, even as we speak, and I just think step one for us should always be separating the people who really intend to sexually exploit children from the people who don't intend to, and never did. All our outrage and protectiveness for the young and defenseless as a society should be reserved for those who are a real threat to the young and defenseless, or we're simply wasting steam on someone who was never our real enemy. 

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@TheRealNihilist
1) If everything is equal why is there a leaderboard showing the inequality?
Leaderboards do not symbolize inequity. Virt has about 900 forum posts and he is in HoF. leaderboards are only an illusion to class in your weird and wild head
2) Please hypocrite you were treating Dr.Franklin different for spamming.
Nah don't be stupid
3) You don't know what I deserve or not. Stop preaching to me like some sort of pastor and realize me spamming was not against the rules.
I am not preaching. I am informing you that you spammed, which is against CoC and Discord Rules
I don't care about your purity tests because all that matters is if it was against the rules or not. Turns out it wasn't until they changed it. Please don't preach from an implied higher position when you were doing the exact same thing
What are you even alluding here. I did only a certain amount of times. You did 1.8k times 1.8k > 50
4) You don't get a say on who is deserving at what when you say this to me while also making it clear here that you dislike me. Making it really clear that you had something against me as a person instead of actually making a good argument. That is if I disregard what you said in this very thread.

I never disliked you, you disliked me because I told you that spamming to 3k is not quality posts. I do not hate anyone on this site. I disagree with people, but I do not them

Hate=intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury

No you do not initiate any of those feelings for me on this site. You are the only picking fights when I say something. I have even complimented you and have engaged in memes with you, and that is a high praise


If anything, if you want to make the debate, they are more important and have more say. They were the base of DDO and came onto DART too. They didn't like bsh1 as mod, but they hailed from a site with great glory
If you do not see this as a defense then I need a second opinion because this feels like yet another gaslighting on this site. 
That proclaimation is a defense because YOU initiated me to respond to it as a defense. Anything I said before was not a defense in anyway or manner
You are talking past my point. Maybe actually address it instead talking to about I didn't make. I made it so clear. I am now beginning to think you are intentionally missing the clear point I made instead doing what every other ideologue does.
It doesn't make sense, that's why I am talking past it
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@Castin
Pinning this as an example “PC Culture” is wildly reductionist
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@TheRealNihilist
If you geniunely think I hate you, please PM me. I do not hate you...

Just cause we disagree does not mean I hate anyone

I do not even hate RM, and he is arguably my biggest rival besides Goldtop.
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The people upset with bsh1 are actually the users more likely to take issue with PC culture, so the reductionism is disingenuous as well
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@TheRealNihilist
It's my thoughts. fuck u
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@coal
No, no, no. Claiming some moral high-ground with unsubstantiated opinions to try and "guilt" my opinion on this issue isn't an argument. You get away with that far too frequently. I'll challenge you to debate on this issue, if you choose not to accept it, then I'll consider that as settling the issue. If you actually think you got a point to defend, let's see it in a formal debate setting. I can argue with you back and forth in the forums, but I've done that with you in the past, and I know how that will turn out. You'll avoid responding to things directly and make some broad over-arching 5 paragraph post that completely allows you to avoid having to substantiate anything. You get called out on it, then drop some one liner saying you won the argument and won't be responding further as a cheap cop out to being called out. So accept a challenge for debate on this, or just skip ahead to your one liner cop out. 

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@Lunatic
Grow up, Tuf. 

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@coal
I tried to agree to disagree with you the first time you said something and you kept pushing it. 
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@Castin
@ShabShoral
@TheRealNihilist
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Speedrace
Alrighty, I'm making one summarized response to everything here I think I want to address:

  • Bsh1's comment was inappropriate
    • I stand by my position that the comment bsh1 made was inappropriate, and I would like to thank Castin for recognizing that he made a mistake. I disagree with her that this was comparable to PC culture. Inappropriate comments like this shouldn't be made, period. 
  • Calling out bsh1 was necessary
    • Bossy shared some interesting thoughts in his "Anti-Anti-Bsh1" that I have considered - specifically preexisting sentiments, exploitation of an opportunity, and that an agreement that what bsh1 did was inappropriate. While I cannot speak to the intention of others, I have spoken to bsh1 in the past about the way he speaks to minors. I believe what he's done is inexcusable and that he needs to hold himself accountable for his actions, which I have spoken to him about privately.     
  • Claim that this was based on "preexisting personal hate"
    • I don't know where you may have heard this. Bsh1 and I were friends (as of yesterday I would use the past tense.) Bsh1 and I have had our disagreements in the past but we were able to engage in civil and polite conversations and you can confirm this with him if you'd like. 
    • I do pity bsh1 for his attempt to gather sympathy, with his good-bye post after his refusal to admit his wrongdoing, and his suicidal direct message to me, which I reported to Virtuoso. I do think that he is somewhat unstable and should seek help for his mental health. Counselling and mental health is nothing to be ashamed of. 
  • Witchhunt for bsh1's resignation
    • As I've said, my intention wasn't to get bsh1 to resign. In fact, I couldn't care less. My comments along those lines were to motivate some self-reflection or accountability. He would rather have given a weird defence and claim it wouldn't be healthy for him (in our PM) than to accept accountability. 
  • Abuse of mod powers
    • While my initial intention was not to influence bsh1 to resign, I was disappointed when he started deleting my comments so that others wouldn't see. I have screenshots of this that I shared with Virtuoso and Speedrace also was a witness to this. That also wasn't okay. If this is a debating website and I'm calling you out on your bs, you should be prepared to engage with me and not silence me for my opinions, that did not violate the Terms of Service. I also reached out to Virtuoso, where he confirmed that my posts were not inappropriate nor did they violate the terms of service. 
    • He also publicly admitted to picking "amusing" test subjects to check if his moderation powers were still working. I don't believe if it was necessary for him to try to do this with more than one person and it mostly immature and in poor taste. 
  • Islam & "less than 100 forum posters"
    • I'm not sure why this has to be a point. I was raised Muslim, and I believe I am culturally Muslim, but as I've said before, I am not that religious. I would not proclaim to be a perfect representation of a Muslim because I am not, as a progressive/liberal queer. I put Islam as a placeholder in lieu of me not having figured out a firm religious stance and Islam is most of what I have known for my life.    
    • Onto TheRealNihilist's comments, for the record, I rejoined a few days before this, so I didn't come here just to start a witchhunt. Furthermore, my lack of forum posts or contribution to the site has no relevance to the moral responsibility of calling out gross behaviour. A 24-year-old making sexual comments to a minor is wrong. Calling out a 24-year-old for making sexual comments to a minor is important. As you pointed out, context also does matter, and I would like to hope that upon self-reflection, bsh1 would agree with me that I was right to call him out on his comment.
I do not believe I have anything more to say to lunatic, as I have said everything I need to say and am aware that his mind will remain unchanged. Imabench is a troll and would find this, like his own gross comments, acceptable so I won't bother having a discussion with him. I know we have extremely different values and his mind also won't change.  

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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
no one likes a new member coming in and taking away our mods like your the fucking owner, booooooo
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@Dr.Franklin
*gasp* Maybe I'm secretly Mike? 
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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
I recognize your concerns, but it's not as if I can do anything about it. It's over. But please let me know if you have questions or something
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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
HUH I get it now, it was a secret plot to get rid of bsh1 as mod!!!
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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
I do pity bsh1 for his attempt to gather sympathy, with his good-bye post after his refusal to admit his wrongdoing, and his suicidal direct message to me, which I reported to Virtuoso. I do think that he is somewhat unstable and should seek help for his mental health. Counselling and mental health is nothing to be ashamed of. 
I got the same vibe, but did not Bsh1 is that type of person to do so. You may have joined at a bad time and late when he was falling, but when he was a moderator in his prime, he did not seem to be mentally deranged and conduct civility

Maybe near the end he fell. I could tell something was up.

I am not saying he was in a bad state of mind, because I had experience with depression and spotting it and the person it happened to did not show signs of distress. 
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@Dr.Franklin
IF WE SAY IT IN THE FORUMS, IT ISN'T A SECRET ANYMORE nac
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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
IT IS TIME FOR THIS TO BE RELEASED

ALSO THERE IS NO NAC
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@Dr.Franklin
WE MUST NOT. THE DDO REBELLION IS TOO POPULOUS FOR US TO STAND AGAINST THEM AT THE MOMENT. 

(Rip to nac)
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@Annie_ESocialBookworm
NOOOOOOOOOOOO THE DDO ELITE MUST DIE, STARTING WITH BSH
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RM YOUR NEXT