Office Mafia Day 1

Author: warren42

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#751
ILikePie5
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@oromagi
What can you tell us about your role and character?

UNVOTE 

VTL Pie

We don’t need more claims. Lynch today is either SA or AROSE. Any other person is a distraction and anti town in my eyes.
#752
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@ILikePie5
Wouldn't maf want a mislynch and no a distraction? More DPS is an easier win, obviously.
#753
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I should probably let you know that I won't have much time for posting tomorrow, so if you do decide to lynch me, don't do it for inactivity or lurking.
#754
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@A-R-O-S-E
Wouldn't maf want a mislynch and no a distraction? More DPS is an easier win, obviously.

No. We don’t get information and therefore we’re back at square one. I would like you to go record with who your top 3 scum picks are.
#755
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@airmax1227
Your read and ultimate reason for voting SA seems heavily based on some link between your roles indication of the theme. I hope you understand that this will be brought up again if SA is lynched and flips town, because I am assuming whatever it is that's in your PM must be pretty damning to justify lynching him for his claim over behavior, and a scummier AROSE. 
#756
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@SirAnonymous
We will probably be in the night phase by tomorrow afternoon, so you should be good.
#757
Lunatic
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UVC

SirAnon: 5/7- water, drafter, wylted, ILikePie5, airmax
Supa-1/7- grey
A-R-O-S-E- 4/7- Lunatic, supa, speed, PressF
Ilikepie5- 1/7- Oromagi

#758
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@Lunatic
vtl arose
#759
airmax1227
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@Lunatic
Your read and ultimate reason for voting SA seems heavily based on some link between your roles indication of the theme. I hope you understand that this will be brought up again if SA is lynched and flips town, because I am assuming whatever it is that's in your PM must be pretty damning to justify lynching him for his claim over behavior, and a scummier AROSE. 

It's a combination of everything, and ultimately that he's the best lynch target this late into DP1. I've read Arose's posts and I really don't see the scummyness you are seeing. I actually grant him some credit for locking in his character so early.

I think there's some validity to what I'm arguing regarding the character affiliation point, but it's not that damning. If SA flips town I'll have to role claim and the link may seem pretty weak, but the combination of everything else still makes it the strongest target we have, and I don't think we are getting a new and better target now, at the 11th hour of the DP. I've made my points about SA as the target and I've pointed out areas in which I'm reluctant and where there are flaws, but I'm locked in now. There's a strong possibility that I'm wrong, but that's how DP1 goes, and I'd rather err to that side than no lynch.
#760
Lunatic
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@airmax1227
It's a combination of everything, and ultimately that he's the best lynch target this late into DP1. I've read Arose's posts and I really don't see the scummyness you are seeing. I actually grant him some credit for locking in his character so early.


I can' really argue for the stuff in your role PM obviously since I don't know it. But as far as the read on AROSE the "locking in an early claim" thing is a usual thing for him. He's done that in the past few games, I can provide links for that if you want. In the last two games he was very proactive in the first DP, and he does some crazy gambit that has resulted in mafia lynches in two games in a row. In Dark Crystal he (as town) fake claimed a character that he wasn't in order to try and counter claim drafterman (who was actually mafia). He was very active and proud of his gambit. So much he was claiming that he would come into this game using some gambit in the sign ups. After roles are sent out, he says he is not doing a gambit anymore and barely posts in the game like at all. When called out about it a few pages back, he has no answer, he just says he refuses to participate because there is 20+ pages. His behavior seems in stark contrast to the last couple of games. 
#761
drafterman
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Even if we concede that AROSE behavior is substantively different, we haven't established that different=scum.
#762
Lunatic
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@drafterman
His lynch will be a good indicator. Regardless he specifically said he refuses to participate which is pretty anti town. Not even to help the SA lynch you want.
#763
drafterman
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No lynching someone else instead of a weaker lynch isn't pushing a NL
I wasn't talking about switching from one lynch to another. Moving goal posts.

It's a debate site, and a big part of mafia is debate and influencing others. I'm telling you my opinions to alter the course of the game in a way I feel is more important than the direction it's currently going. If you dis-agree with my opinions, tell me why, try to influence me why yours is better. 
All you've done is establish that AROSE is behaving differently. Behaving differently isn't inherently scummy. You've omitted that part and allowed other people to make that unproven connecting.

Town orchestrated, sure. If some others agree with what I am saying, that there are better lynch targets, then I don't see what's wrong with orchestrating a lynch on to a better target.
Town can't orchestrate anything because Town doesn't know who Town are.

Especially when you yourself have stated you felt unsure of the lynch earlier on. It's not like their has been a big behavior shift from SA between now and then. And I am not buying this "there is no better targets" argument from you. There is just no better "convenient" targets. If you think I am really steering the town away in a negative direction with ill intent, that should make me scummier than this weak lynch on SA? But I don't have the votes on me, so your gonna settle SA right? Lazy =/= Convienent. I was probably wrong that you are lazy. This is looking scummy now. 
You can only lynch one person a day. So if I have two choices I'd like to see lynched, of course I'm going to go for the easier one. Why wouldn't I?

Also, the wagons are equal so getting either lynched requires the same amount of effort. In fact, by switching the AROSE lynch would be the more convenient one, so your rebuttal is rendered moot.

I think the speed in which the AROSE wagon developed is itself suspicious.

His lynch will be a good indicator.
LOL. I thought you'd rather mislynch than lynch someone for information?

Regardless he specifically said he refuses to participate which is pretty anti town. Not even to help the SA lynch you want.
I can see him being intimidated by the level of activity and sheer size of the game. I don't think he's been in a game like this before.

I fully believe that Day Phases can reach saturation in which nothing else productive can get done an subsequent activity doesn't do anything other than clutter things up and make analysis harder on. In such a situation, checking out isn't anti town.
#764
drafterman
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LOL. I thought you'd rather mislynch than lynch someone for information?
Rather "no lynch"*


#765
drafterman
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Lunatic:


#766
drafterman
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Voting Analysis

drafterman

oromagi

Grey

SupaDudz

AROSE

Wylted

Speed

Water

Pie

Lunatic

Press

airmax

Sir
No Votes

Wagon Analysis

Sir
#767
drafterman
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As an objective analysis, these are both pretty weak wagons, but Sir's is stronger compared to AROSE. Everyone is pretty much literally just sheeping Lunatic. That's. It. Only Press really bothered to provide a stated reason, it but it's just Lunatic's reason with the words in different order.

That said, I really don't like the people who are on my own wagon, only me and airmax have provided reasons and everyone else can't even be bothered to lynch.

However, I do want to iterate that the mod said votes have to be bolted. AROSE unvote wasn't bolded and, by the rules, Sir should be lynched by now. If this decision to accept an unbolded vote throws the game, I will be upset.

I will proceed as if Sir hasn't been lynched and UNVOTE.

Neither of these wagons are looking good RN. Going to individual voting analysis:

oro - casting a wide net, doing a lot of probing, caution to avoid mishammer, not really concerned about a lynch at the moment - Town Read.

Grey - joke and sheep votes. Not ideal. I still Town Read him because of claim but this voting behavior is slight sus.

Supa - A bit milquetoast to be honest. He seems to be latching onto other people's reasons rather than forming his own. Slight Sus.

Arose - Not much to talk about. The analysis of his behavior as passive is right on, but not necessarily scum. Null.

Wylted - He's all over the place here, but he's always all over the place. Null.

Speed - Solid town. His quasi-CC of Press and subsequent retract reads as a solid Town mistake.

Water - "Can afford a mislynch." Yeah, we can, but that's not a reason itself to cause one. Sus.

Pie - No reason given. Sus.

Pres - Sheeping. He's relatively new and sheeping is what noobs often do. Null.

airmax - He's given his own independent reason for voting Sir, but he's also had plenty of time to come up with one. Slight Town.

Sir - Participated a lot, asked a lot of questions, even given some reads. Yet has yet to provide a single vote. Slight Sus.

Lunatic - Though flawed, his reasoning at least exits and obeys a certain internal logic. Town.

After all of this I am still leaning towards Sir, especially over AROSE, but I don't like the company I'm with.

#768
drafterman
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@warren42
Restating for mod benefit

However, I do want to iterate that the mod said votes have to be bolted. AROSE unvote wasn't bolded and, by the rules, Sir should be lynched by now. If this decision to accept an unbolded vote throws the game, I will be upset.


Topic's author
#769
warren42
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@drafterman
@A-R-O-S-E
AROSE unvoted here. Forgot to clarify, AROSE you have to bold unvotes for them to count moving forward.

I usually give people (particularly newer players) one time where I'll count it so long as it was their intention to VTL/Unvote and they forgot to bold.

AROSE, next time it won't be counting.
#770
drafterman
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Roger.
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#771
warren42
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That warning applies to everyone. All further unbolded votes and unvotes will absolutely not be counted, even if you forget and your intentions are clear.
#772
drafterman
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Based on voting analysis alone, summarizing the reads:

Town
Speed
oro
airmax

Null
Press
Arose
Wylted

Sus
Grey
Pie
Supa
Water
Sir

Yes. I have five people in the scum pile. There are none-righteous, not even one.

Topic's author
#773
warren42
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Official Vote Count

SirAnon: 4/7 (water, wylted, pie, max)
AROSE: 4/7 (Lunatic, Supa, Press, speed)
Pie: 1/7 (oro)

If you believe I've made a mistake please let me know.

Phase ends at 8:00 PM EST 10/29. There are approximately 11 hours remaining.

#774
drafterman
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@warren42
Grey is on AROSE

#775
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@Lunatic
Are you not concerned that your wagon only consists of people sheeping you?
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#776
warren42
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@drafterman
Thank you for pointing out the mistake.

Official Vote Count

SirAnon: 4/7 (water, wylted, pie, max)
AROSE: 5/7 (Lunatic, Supa, Press, speed, grey)
Pie: 1/7 (oro)

If you believe I've made a mistake please let me know.

Phase ends at 8:00 PM EST 10/29. There are approximately 11 hours remaining.

#777
Vader
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@drafterman
First vote was looking for claim of SA
#778
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@drafterman
Supa - A bit milquetoast to be honest. He seems to be latching onto other people's reasons rather than forming his own. Slight Sus.
I nulled AROSE from the start of the game. It was brought to my attention of his activity. I analyzed the points made and came to the conclusion that AROSE had been acting less town like in his play. He did the same gambit, which led me to believe him as a town, but activity has shown otherwise he is being anti-town not contributing at all to his reads he makes

I understand it is a lot to sift through, but he does not even care to make an attempt. I am a lazy fuck too, but I would personally only respond to pin themselves. He doesn't even start a conversation when he is active and states two things, which lead me to prefer AROSE

I'll take a lynch and make my POV of who is scum and who is  FOS clearer

#779
drafterman
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@Vader
So you acknowledge the impact of a long, drawn out DP with lots of posts to sift through. You admit that it has impacted your own behavior. AROSE is similarly impacted but moreso.

I think this is important to note (especially for Lunatic).

You may draw a thin line between you and AROSE in terms of activity in response to a DP like this, but I see it as just two slightly different points on the same spectrum.

Generally speaking, we can't say inactivity in light of a dense DP like this is scum without both FOSing you and AROSE at the same time. So more care has to be given here and the gymnastics that has to be performed to cut a line between AROSE and others is a bit too convoluted for my taste.
#780
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@drafterman
I have been active throughout the DP, but he hasn't...