My conversation with drfranklin

Author: secularmerlin

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And with apologies to the entire sports forum for interrupting. 
Well theyre wrong
How do you know that they are incorrect. They also have a holy book with passages that could be interpreted in a way that seems to reflect pur current scientific understanding (and also passages that directly contradict our current scientific understanding I'm sure). That is the 'evidence' you are putting forward for your claim. They have this evidence also. Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. 
Also let me point out that even if the bible contains some passages that with some artistic licence could arguably be referring to modern scientific discoveries this does not in itself tell us how this information got there. Its mere presence in a book does not prove the source of the information or the book though it might make claims about said sources.

Really then there would have been chanches of thos claims being wrong, but there isnt any??
I sense you are getting emotional here and I'm trying to discern which claim you are referencing and how it being factually accurate tells us where the information came from. All religions (with a holy book) claim their holy book is the one revealed truth. Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. 
On a final note even if the bible contains some passages that with some artistic licence could arguably be referring to modern scientific discoveries it also contains much that is blatantly scientifically inaccurate. If we are too evaluate the bible fairly they must be taken into account as well. 
How so?


By acknowledging that they are in the bible and run counter to your hypothesis that the bible is as an accurate source of scientific knowledge.
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Hey thats me!
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@Dr.Franklin
It is my friend. I realized that we and I in particular since I started it and have little interest in sports, were being very rude. So I came here to continue our discussion. 
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@secularmerlin
It is my fried. I realized that we and I in particular since I started it and have little interest in sports, were being very rude. So I came here to continue our discussion.
You might want to thread carefully with Franklin.

Franklin confessed his life is all messed up. He suffers from a crippling depression and a very sore backside. He became a faggot after seeing many failed heterosexual relationships breakup. His own lack of ambition got him dumped. One would suspect he lived in a white trash neighbourhood or African ghetto.

Strong resentment towards women.
Faggot Franklin wrote: Yo they call sexist, Bitch shut yo fuc king face, I have seen the dark side of women and the feminists.

Causes of selective hearing post#8
Franklin wrote: I have a crippling depression.

<strong>Why Franklin became a faggot and a woman hater and turned to niggers for love?
Link title: Ask Dr. willows post#7

Why Franklin became a faggot and a woman hater? He was a peeping Tom and a pervert watching couples.
<ins>Franklin wrote: you see you will NEVER understand until you have seen the dark side

watching my brother's marriage fall apart when his career hit a rocky patch. His wife cheated on him while he was was at home raising their kid and trying to find work. He was also in a bad way at the time physically after his car collided with a moose and left him needing physio.

watching a family friend's marriage implode. As soon as his kids were 18 and off to college his wife started fucki ng a colleague. He's worked 50-60 hour weeks for years now she's taking half of everything.

watching my uncle be the biggest simp of all time and let his awful wife and ungrateful daughters suck the money and life out of him.

a female friend of mine of 12 years utterly disrespecting me by wasting my time and money (for no damn reason) then taking no responsibility and near enough ghosting me for my dissent.

my latest relationship ending because I "have no ambition".

an alarming amount of single women in the area I live having multiple children, Usually to different fathers.

one of my oldest friends being driven so insane by his cheating cunt of a wife that he attacked her in her sleep with a hammer and knife. He's currently half way through an 8 year sentence and is unlikely to see his children again.

Yeah, Women are fucked up.</ins>

Franklin is admonished by Harikrish:
You are a faggot. That is why the niggers are in yourFranklin confessed his life is all messed up. He suffers from a crippling depression and a very sore backside. He became a faggot after seeing many failed heterosexual relationships breakup. His own lack of ambition got him dumped. One would suspect he lived in a white trash neighbourhood or African ghetto.

Strong resentment towards women.
Faggot Franklin wrote: Yo they call sexist, Bitch shut yo fuc king face, I have seen the dark side of women and the feminists.

Causes of selective hearing post#8
Franklin wrote: I have a crippling depression.

<strong>Why Franklin became a faggot and a woman hater and turned to niggers for love?
Link title: Ask Dr. willows post#7

Why Franklin became a faggot and a woman hater? He was a peeping Tom and a pervert watching couples.
<ins>Franklin wrote: you see you will NEVER understand until you have seen the dark side

watching my brother's marriage fall apart when his career hit a rocky patch. His wife cheated on him while he was was at home raising their kid and trying to find work. He was also in a bad way at the time physically after his car collided with a moose and left him needing physio.

watching a family friend's marriage implode. As soon as his kids were 18 and off to college his wife started fucki ng a colleague. He's worked 50-60 hour weeks for years now she's taking half of everything.

watching my uncle be the biggest simp of all time and let his awful wife and ungrateful daughters suck the money and life out of him.

a female friend of mine of 12 years utterly disrespecting me by wasting my time and money (for no damn reason) then taking no responsibility and near enough ghosting me for my dissent.

my latest relationship ending because I "have no ambition".

an alarming amount of single women in the area I live having multiple children, Usually to different fathers.

one of my oldest friends being driven so insane by his cheating cunt of a wife that he attacked her in her sleep with a hammer and knife. He's currently half way through an 8 year sentence and is unlikely to see his children again.

Yeah, Women are fucked up.</ins>

Franklin is admonished by Harikrish:
You are a faggot. That is why the niggers are in your butthole.
You are rambling incoherently. Take your medication before continuing. And get the two niggers out of your butthole and as@mouth.
Your public confessions about niggers in your private space.

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@Harikrish
Immaterial to the discussion. 
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@secularmerlin
We Orthodox don't take our scripture as the "one revealed truth". We would say it points to The One Revealed Truth. We would also say that Jesus Christ is not only the fulfillment of the Jewish law and prophets, but all religion. At the end of the road is Christ, who is The True Way
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@secularmerlin
It is my belief Islam is false

442;e Quran"s Sura (or chapter) 9, Verse 29, Explains the
Islamic duty to make war upon non-Muslims:
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor
in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been
forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, (4) and those
who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i. E. , Islam)
among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians),
until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, And
feel themselves subdued. *
Sura 47, Verse 4 sanctions the taking of captives as spoils of
war:
So, When you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah"s Cause), Those
who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have
killed and wounded many of them, Then bind a bond
h8853;rmly (on them, I. E. , Take them as captives). 9442;erea9501;er
(is the time) either for generosity (i. E. , Free them without
ransom), Or ransom (according to what beneh8853;ts Islam),
until the war lays down its burden. 9442;us [you are
ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad
against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i. E. , Are
saved from the punishment in the Hell-h8853;re) or at least
come under your protection], But if it had been Allah"s
Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them
(without you). But (He lets you h8853;ght), In order to test
you, Some with others. But those who are killed in the
Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.
And Sura 2, Verse 154, Clearly outlines that Allah will reward
holy warriors who fight on his behalf:
And say not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah,
"9442;ey are dead. " Nay, They are living, But you perceive
(it) not.

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@Mopac
Man, you love your orthodoxy
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@secularmerlin
Please provide evidenc that the Bible is anti-scinetific
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@Harikrish
Poke!
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@Mopac
We Orthodox don't take our scripture as the "one revealed truth". We would say it points to The One Revealed Truth. We would also say that Jesus Christ is not only the fulfillment of the Jewish law and prophets, but all religion. At the end of the road is Christ, who is The True Way
I'm not sure exactly what the distinction here is. You claim to have a special book which at least in part proves your claims about reality. Even if you do not believe that it us strictly speaking necessary to the argument.
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@Dr.Franklin
It is my belief Islam is false
It doesn't matter. The bible and the Koran are both interesting books with a lot of historical importance and both contain some very nice sentiments and some things that are just monstrous.

Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. Also this fails to address the thousands of religions besides christianity and Islam many of which you and I have to little collective knowledge of to have an informed conversation about them.
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It doesn't matter. The bible and the Koran are both interesting books with a lot of historical importance and both contain some very nice sentiments and some things that are just monstrous.

So what

Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. Also this fails to address the thousands of religions besides christianity and Islam many of which you and I have to little collective knowledge of to have an informed conversation about them.
what religions, they clearly failed

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@secularmerlin
above
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@Dr.Franklin
Please provide evidenc that the Bible is anti-scinetific
The genesis story in the bible contradicts both our best current theories about the diversity of species and the formation of the current local (observable) universe and also itself confusing the order in which the Yahweh created.

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@secularmerlin
We do not take the bible as an idol before God. We know what it was written for and how it is supposed to be used. Those outside the church will only confuse themselves trying to understand the faith by taking scripture out of its context, which is the church.

I have read the bible many times, and before I die likely many more times. I of course venerate the scriptures. The church does too. Scripture is a part of our holy tradition, and chronicles a people set apart to struggle with God. We the church inherited the scripture to learn from. We are that holy people thst struggles with God, we are Israel. We struggle because love of God naturally requires war with the self. We believe in living truth, and strive to shine as icons of The Truth.

The Truth is not an intellectual apprehension to us
 It is not something learned that you can think on in your mind. It is a way of life, a real discipline. A man who memorizes a bunch of science text books is not a scientist. Likewise, it isn't having, even all the right information that makes someone a theologian. A true theologian is one who prays, and in living the discipline of purifying the heart, comes to know God personally. God is revealed, not learned. Hidden in plain site. Our faith has  a great deal to do with hidden things and revealing them. Making the invisible visible. Bringing about apocalypse or revelation.


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@Dr.Franklin
It doesn't matter. The bible and the Koran are both interesting books with a lot of historical importance and both contain some very nice sentiments and some things that are just monstrous.

So what
This is actually my question. The bible says some stuff and some of that stuff is arguably in line with our current scientific understanding. So what?
Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. Also this fails to address the thousands of religions besides christianity and Islam many of which you and I have to little collective knowledge of to have an informed conversation about them.
what religions, they clearly failed
Failed at what? In what context?

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@secularmerlin
The genesis story in the bible contradicts both our best current theories about the diversity of species and the formation of the current local (observable) universe and also itself confusing the order in which the Yahweh created.

Actually, the opposite is true, The Biblical Timeline in Genesis meets the timeline of Science, basically, God used science to create Evolution and humans.


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This is actually my question. The bible says some stuff and some of that stuff is arguably in line with our current scientific understanding. So what?

Because it was right before we figured it out, how?

Failed at what? In what context?
If other religions existed and they arent as popular then than the Abrahamic Religions, their god failed, which means they dont exist, see my logic
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@Mopac
Ok that's nice. Of course it means there is no reason for us to continue however since trying to understand your position can only confuse me further, a statement I do not necessarily disagree with by the way. 
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@Dr.Franklin
If the raw material is available and you happen to be omniscient, then you don't need to bother about science.
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@Dr.Franklin
Actually, the opposite is true, The Biblical Timeline in Genesis meets the timeline of Science, basically, God used science to create Evolution and humans
You are using a very heavy interperative brush here. When taken at face value the literal wording of the text claims that the Yahweh created Adam fully formed from dust. I am willing to discuss your interpretation of course but only with the understanding that I have no particular reason to accept your opinion over the opinion of a bible literalist who denies evolution all together. You are both using the same source material. 

Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. 


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@zedvictor4
Right so you proved my point with these verses:

The Bible also says that the Earth floats in space on nothing. Consider Job 26:7 which states:”He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”We now know today that yes, the Earth does hang on nothing. It is freely orbiting around the sun. To prove that the Bible has been correct, the ancient Greeks in the Bronze age when the Book of Job was written.[LINK] believed that the ancient God Titan Atlas held the Earth on his back.[LINK] The Bible has been correct before modern science could confirm it. Ancient people of God was correct while other ancient people without the Christian God were wrong.

The Universe is Expanding and The Bible got it right. Let’s take Isaiah 40:22 again-”it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:”
This verse also proves that the universe is expanding, basically saying that God has expanded the universe, and spread them out further. We now know today that yes, the universe is
expanding. This fact was proven by the Hubble Space Telescope in 1929.[LINK} The New York Times reports:

“In an expanding universe, the further something is away from you, the faster it is receding. Hubble’s constant tells by how much.But measuring it requires divining the distances of lights in the sky — stars and even whole galaxies that we can never visit or recreate in the lab. The strategy since Hubble’s day has been to find so-called standard candles, stars or whole galaxies whose distances can be calculated by how bright they look from Earth.”[LINK]

The Book of Isaiah was written in the 8th Century B.C, doing some math that means that the people inspired by the Christian God and the Bible knew about the expanding universe 2,629 years before it was officially discovered.


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You are using a very heavy interperative brush here. When taken at face value the literal wording of the text claims that the Yahweh created Adam fully formed from dust. 
Sure humans before evolution was Neathernthals, is it a coincidence that they went extinct

I am willing to discuss your interpretation of course but only with the understanding that I have no particular reason to accept your opinion over the opinion of a bible literalist who denies evolution all together. You are both using the same source material. 
That's why there are different churches and a Jewish Religion, God has a plan for all interpretations of his text, the Bible was meant for all interpretations, Also Evolution vs creation is useless if science is the same source material too.

Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. 
Can't
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@secularmerlin
I have read the bible many times, and before I die likely many more times. I of course venerate the scriptures. The church does too. Scripture is a part of our holy tradition, and chronicles a people set apart to struggle with God. We the church inherited the scripture to learn from. We are that holy people thst struggles with God, we are Israel. We struggle because love of God naturally requires war with the self. We believe in living truth, and strive to shine as icons of The Truth.

The Truth is not an intellectual apprehension to us
 It is not something learned that you can think on in your mind. It is a way of life, a real discipline. A man who memorizes a bunch of science text books is not a scientist. Likewise, it isn't having, even all the right information that makes someone a theologian. A true theologian is one who prays, and in living the discipline of purifying the heart, comes to know God personally. God is revealed, not learned. Hidden in plain site. Our faith has  a great deal to do with hidden things and revealing them. Making the invisible visible. Bringing about apocalypse or revelation.



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@Dr.Franklin
Yep. So the biblical mythology might be more reasonable than the previous Greek mythology

But the bible had the advantage of improved human knowledge.


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@Dr.Franklin
This is actually my question. The bible says some stuff and some of that stuff is arguably in line with our current scientific understanding. So what?

Because it was right before we figured it out, how?
Assuming for the benefit of the discussion that it was 'right' may I suggest that how is indeed the issue and that if your claim is that the answer is that some god(s) were inv6then that is exactly the claim you need to demonstrate. 
Failed at what? In what context?
If other religions existed and they arent as popular then than the Abrahamic Religions, their god failed, which means they dont exist, see my logic
I do not see your logic only an argument ad populum.

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@Dr.Franklin
You are using a very heavy interperative brush here. When taken at face value the literal wording of the text claims that the Yahweh created Adam fully formed from dust. 
Sure humans before evolution was Neathernthals, is it a coincidence that they went extinct
If by coincidence you mean by unguided causality with no real purpose nor a will to determine any purpose other than the will of living organisms then it would certainly seem to be. 
I am willing to discuss your interpretation of course but only with the understanding that I have no particular reason to accept your opinion over the opinion of a bible literalist who denies evolution all together. You are both using the same source material. 
That's why there are different churches and a Jewish Religion, God has a plan for all interpretations of his text, the Bible was meant for all interpretations, Also Evolution vs creation is useless if science is the same source material too.
I agree that arguing against evolution is untenable given the dearth of evidence. As to the rest how have you determined the yahweh"s plan if not from the very book you are trying to prove? And if your source is also the subject you are trying to demonstrate then your argument by necessity will become circular.
Please show me the observable difference from an outside perspective. 
Can't
Why on earth would I believe there is one then?

#30
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I got 7 different atheists tagging me, holy shit

Ill respong later