Is morality objective or subjective?

Author: Fallaneze

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#661
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@3RU7AL
Are you suggesting that god endorses all governments and their actions are de facto acts of god's will?
Not always endorses but allows.
If an omnipotent god "allows" anything, they are de facto endorsing it.
God does not endorse sin, He allows it for a purpose and a time. Sin points to the inability of humanity to live completely good lives. Many, perhaps most do not even know what good means, nor can they justify it. They make it up to suit their circumstances. 

In the exact same way, if you stand by and deliberately and knowingly watch a child put their hand on a hot stove, fully knowing of the danger, and deliberately choosing NOT to prevent it, then you are a psychopath.
But if you warn the child and the child still does it when you were busy doing something else it was not something you chose for them to do but something they chose for themselves to do. If you prevented them from making any choices on their own they would be robots to your commands. Not only this but by God allowing Adam the choice humanity found out what evil was. They found out that humans cannot live by their own standards alone. Their own standards are relative to their own desires, preferences, and tastes. What makes personal preference good? Nothing unless there is a best to compare an action to. What is your best in regard to morality??? Can you point to a standard that should be binding to all humanity?
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@3RU7AL
Are you talking about immediate, real-life, scientifically verifiable death, or some metaphysical or spiritual sort of "death"?
Spiritual death.
Spiritual death is unverifiable and definitely NOT "objective".
That is a presupposition of yours. It depends on humans as the measure of what is and what is not. 

Real-world LAWS don't mention "spiritual death" so I fail to see how the Ten Commandments are even slightly relevant.
The same laws brought physical death in some situations in the OT. The greater truth is that they lead to spiritual death to God ultimately. You see, the OT contains physical historical truths and some principles that represent a greater reality - the spiritual.    
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@3RU7AL
So, no "objective" punishments (before death).
When the punishment complies with God's righteous standard, yes.
There are no prescribed punishments for violating the Ten Commandments (other than "spiritual-death").
Ultimately, those sinful actions led to spiritual death but they also received physical earthly punishments, as expressed in the Mosaic laws that concerned and related to the Ten. 

You're making an appeal to "common-sense" eye-for-an-eye punishments, but Jesus specifically distances himself from those in favor of forgiveness.
Yes, He does favour forgiveness for each individual one of us. But corporately, we still need laws that incorporate the Ten Commandments or else anyone can get away with any injustice. 

Which brings up an important point.

If Jesus endorses forgiveness, how can you insist people be (real-world) punished?
Jesus endorses that we forgive those who transgress against us, but that does not mean justice is forgotten about when malicious actions are taken. That goes beyond just us. Malicious willful unrepentant actions need addressing or else anarchy reigns. If you find it in your heart to forgive someone who has taken off your arm because of spite, that is more to your merit in living the Christian life but by ignoring their punishment you are promoting that person getting away with such actions in the future unless they show repentance. They learn no lesson from such actions and feel free to do so in the future. 

Alternatively, if you can't forgive others for their wrongful actions against you why would God give you mercy and forgive you? He has shown that He is willing to forgive you for far more grievous sins but recognition and repentance for those sins is required. Do you recognize you have violated His righteousness? If there is no repentance then you keep doing what ought not to be done and the law is not addressed. 

The difference between you and Jesus is that Jesus pays for the sins of those who have faith in Him, meeting God's righteousness in addressing the wrongful actions on their behalf. He voluntarily does that. He says to punish Him instead of those believing ones. In the earth realm, we usually do not pay the penalty for someone who breaks the law. The law requires that each criminal pays for their own wrongful actions. That does not mean we can't do that some times, like admitting that we did the crime instead of them, but them how is justice met? We commit another sin in covering the guilt of another.  

That does not mean that we cannot forgive those who offend us and show them love, even when they have not done that for us or deserve it. That is what grace is, showing love to someone who does not deserve it. Mercy is paying for their penalty in a just way if such a way is available. It is not giving them what they deserve.
 
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@3RU7AL
Isn't this a Boolean function?  Any sin no matter how slight and you burn in (unverifiable) hell forever and ever?
The Bible expresses that sin separates us from a holy God.
Which has no real-world ("objective") consequences.
But the Ten Commandments do affect how we treat others who are made in God's image and likeness. Justice demands that we do not hurt others by murder, lying, or stealing from them. Our actions towards others do and should have earthly consequences. 

Sin affects every one of us.  

Please attempt to restrict your comments to REAL-WORLD "OBJECTIVE" MORAL LAWS AND THEIR REAL-WORLD "OBJECTIVE" LEGAL PUNISHMENTS.

Sure god and hell and angels and stuff...  That's another conversation.

I want hard-and-fast rules (and specific real-world punishments) that apply equally to all people in all situations.
Okay, you want justice, not mercy. 

Is murder wrong? Is it wrong to take the life of another innocent person intentionally and with malice? Can you answer that?

I want to know which (real-world) laws and punishments should be changed based on specific, non-opinion-based, "objective" "Bible" verses.
Then you need to answer some questions. 

What would be equal justice for a murderer? Do you have a reply or can anything be equally just? 
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@3RU7AL
I'm guessing by that standard, I'm already doomed to maximum punishment, so throwing in a few more violations here and there won't make any difference.
That depends on whether you believe in Jesus Christ...
It's even worse if I do believe in Jesus Christ because that belief (and repentance) turns into an infinite GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD!!

How is it worse? Do you want to go to hell?

And how is it free? It cost Jesus His human life with all the pain and suffering involved. It cost Jesus a lifetime of meeting God's righteous requirements and the persecutions He suffered to reconcile humanity with God once again.


#666
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In OT times the ultimate and final punishment for lying, if not repented for (i.e., malicious and unrepentant), was death, meaning spiritual separation from God.
That is not what DEATH means. Why do you lie?

#667
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It's even worse if I do believe in Jesus Christ because that belief (and repentance) turns into an infinite GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD!!
Because it means that any horrible psychopathic criminal can circumvent and evade justice.

It's "free" because they merely need to repent (regret) and believe.
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I want hard-and-fast rules (and specific real-world punishments) that apply equally to all people in all situations.
Okay, you want justice, not mercy. 
Justice and Mercy are not mutually-exclusive.
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I want to know which (real-world) laws and punishments should be changed based on specific, non-opinion-based, "objective" "Bible" verses.
Then you need to answer some questions. 

What would be equal justice for a murderer? Do you have a reply or can anything be equally just?
This is another RED-HERRING.

What does "The Bible" tell us to do?  Today.  In modern times.  Where in "The Bible" does it tell us the real-world "objective" punishments for each of the Ten Commandments?

WWJD??
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You're conflating moral instinct and our personal agreement with "objective morality".
You can read it that way. What I am doing is expressing a biblical truth. How you take it is up to you.
If it was "objective" it wouldn't be a matter of OPINION.
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Objective morality must be a set of clear, non-context-sensitive, Quantifiable LOGICALLY COHERENT principles and or specific rules that each have specific, prescribed consequences that have NO EXCEPTIONS.

All you've provided are SUBJECTIVE guidelines (no death penalty for cursing a parent) with zero detectable consequences (eternal hellfire + whatever your local government says).
The death penalty was a Mosaic law. Prove otherwise?
Side note: "YOu can't proove me wrongg!" is an appeal-to-ignorance.

But you've already said you don't follow strict Mosaic Law.

So Mosaic Law can't possibly be the standard of your hypothetical "objective-morality".

Is "love" your "objective-morality"??  AND if it is, HOW DO WE APPLY IT IN THE (modern day) REAL-WORLD?

I NEED SPECIFIC (UNIVERSAL) RULES AND PUNISHMENTS.

Because, without specifics, it's PURELY SUBJECTIVE.
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@3RU7AL
It's even worse if I do believe in Jesus Christ because that belief (and repentance) turns into an infinite GET OUT OF HELL FREE CARD!!
Because it means that any horrible psychopathic criminal can circumvent and evade justice.
Jesus Christ died to save sinners. That includes you and me. Neither of us deserves God's grace either, but God has extended His hand of mercy to sinners that we may again have a close relationship with God. Sin is an offence towards God. That means that you and I are guilty too. 

If for some reason a horrible psychopath can understand his/her crimes and truly turns from those crimes (repentance), which God would know the true motive, then that person would be included in God giving grace to them. You and I do not know the motive. That does not mean they get out of jail free for their earthly crimes. They still need to serve the sentence.  

It's "free" because they merely need to repent (regret) and believe.
So you don't believe in second chances. You don't believe in extending mercy to those who have truly changed their behaviour. 
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That does not mean they get out of jail free for their earthly crimes. They still need to serve the sentence.  
Based on what?  What's the "objective" universal rule and prescribed punishment?

It's "free" because they merely need to repent (regret) and believe.
So you don't believe in second chances. You don't believe in extending mercy to those who have truly changed their behaviour. 
Do you only believe in second chances AFTER YOU DIE?

Mercy should be built into the LAW.  Mercy shouldn't be ARBITRARY and based on SUBJECTIVE OPINION.

Mercy should be "objective" and universal.  Mercy should be based on EXPLICIT rules so it can be enforced without BIAS.
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@3RU7AL
I want hard-and-fast rules (and specific real-world punishments) that apply equally to all people in all situations.
Okay, you want justice, not mercy. 
Justice and Mercy are not mutually-exclusive.
And Jesus fulfills the justice of God on behalf of the believer. Because of that deed God offers His mercy and grace to those who believe. 

Justice is paying for the crime. Mercy is not getting what you deserve. 

Definition of justice

1a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments meting out justice social justice
b : judge a supreme court justice —used as a title Justice Marshall
c : the administration of law a fugitive from justice especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity a system of justice
2a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair questioned the justice of the their decision
b(1) : the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action
(2) : conformity to this principle or ideal : righteousness the justice of their cause
c : the quality of conforming to law
3 : conformity to truth, fact, or reason : correctness admitted that there was much justice in these observations— T. L. Peacock 


Definition of mercy

1a : compassion or forbearance (see forbearance sense 1) shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power also : lenient or compassionate treatment begged for mercy
b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion May God have mercy on us.
b : a fortunate circumstance it was a mercy they found her before she froze
3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress works of mercy among the poor
at the mercy of
: wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against

***

  • Justice is receiving what one deserves whereas mercy is to ask for what one wants and not what he deserves.
  • Mercy is a free gift whereas justice is a right.
  • Justice demands an eye for an eye whereas mercy calls for forgiveness and compassion towards the criminal or the offender.


#675
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I'm still waiting for your "impartial" "objective" legal code.
#676
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@3RU7AL
I want to know which (real-world) laws and punishments should be changed based on specific, non-opinion-based, "objective" "Bible" verses.
Then you need to answer some questions. 

What would be equal justice for a murderer? Do you have a reply or can anything be equally just?
This is another RED-HERRING.
No, it is not. Whatever I say you will have another objection. You want to know what is objectively just. Objectively just is equal justice. That means that a criminal sentence to be equally just then needs to deliver equal compensation to the victim. Thus, I want you to explain what equal justice would be in the case of murder. 

What does the Bible reveal is the penalty for murder? Let me reason this out. 

On the earthly level, and from the government perspective it reveals an eye for an eye, life for life, but, IMO, Jesus taught the individual to turn the other cheek if it is between you and the other person. As you have been forgiven forgive others. So, we individually, are to show the same grace to our brothers, even our enemies, that God has shown to us. That does not mean that the crime should go unpunished by the government. A life still demands a life. Justice still needs to be carried out. Life was still taken. If justice is not met that guilty person may feel compelled to take another life. It means, in as much as it depends on us, individually, that we should be willing to forgive others for the harm they have done to us as God has forgiven us in Christ. 

Matthew 5:38-48 (NASB)
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus makes it personal with the pronoun 'you'. 

Now, looking at the heavenly level, no murderer shall enter into heaven, yet Paul states that was some of you, but you have been forgiven and justified because of the act of another (Jesus).

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 

What does "The Bible" tell us to do?  Today.  In modern times.  Where in "The Bible" does it tell us the real-world "objective" punishments for each of the Ten Commandments?

WWJD?? 


Today, in modern times the lesson is,
1) To obey the laws of the land,
2) To not hold a grudge personally but to love not only our neighbours but our enemies, 
3) To not seek an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth,
4) That these Ten Commandments are still binding but mercy is also at play.
Jesus even elaborates on two of them, adultery and what that means, and hatred and anger in relation to murders.
5) Jesus has met the letter of the law for the believer. He has satisfied its righteousness on behalf of those who have faith and trust in Him. 
 
It tells us the punishment in both covenants.

In the Old Covenant, it is an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, life for life. It goes into great length for situational ethics in the ANE via OT laws and many of these laws relate to the Ten Commandments. You could argue all do. 
In the New Covenant, the eternal covenant, it tells us that the punishment from these sins is separation from God in heaven. It mentions many of these ten commandments in various passages as they relate to heaven.


Justice:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 

Mercy:
11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

***

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

***

Justice:
Galatians 5:19-23 (NASB)
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 

Grace and mercy:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

***

For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

***

Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

***

Mercy:
Revelation 21:7-8 (NASB)
7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 

Justice:
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

So, except for the Sabbath, the Ten Commandments are all present in these NT passages:

  • the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God,
  • neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, --> Covered under adultery and idolatry towards God.
  • nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, --> Covered under stealing and coveting.
  • immorality, impurity, sensuality, -->  Covered under adultery and covetousness.
  • idolatry, sorcery, - Covered under Idolarty
  • enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, --> Covered under Murder for Jesus likened hatred and anger with murder.
  • murderers - speaks for itself
  • immoral persons - adultery and sexual immorality
  • sorcerers and idolaters - idolatry 
  • all liars - lying 


#677
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This is another RED-HERRING.
No, it is not. Whatever I say you will have another objection.
Only if you fail to produce a perfectly "objective" set of moral guidelines.

Are you sticking with "love"?
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Today, in modern times the lesson is,
1) To obey the laws of the land,
2) To not hold a grudge personally but to love not only our neighbours but our enemies, 
3) To not seek an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth,
4) That these Ten Commandments are still binding but mercy is also at play.
Jesus even elaborates on two of them, adultery and what that means, and hatred and anger in relation to murders.
5) Jesus has met the letter of the law for the believer. He has satisfied its righteousness on behalf of those who have faith and trust in Him. 
Nice!

So all I have to do is obey the logically incoherent, ever changing, perfectly subjective LAWS OF THE LAND.

The rest only applies AFTER DEATH.

And since I was doing this already, basically "The Bible" is WORTHLESS as a day-to-day-real-world guide to "objective" morality.
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@3RU7AL
You're conflating moral instinct and our personal agreement with "objective morality".
You can read it that way. What I am doing is expressing a biblical truth. How you take it is up to you.
If it was "objective" it wouldn't be a matter of OPINION.
Granting God, the biblical truth is objective, outside myself, provided I interpret it correctly. There is a correct way to interpret any text. You must understand the author's meaning to correctly intepret. 
#680
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...provided I interpret it correctly.
There it is.

There is a correct way to interpret any text.
Is there?  What would lead you to believe this?

You must understand the author's meaning to correctly intepret. 
How can you know exactly how much certainty is warranted?
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@3RU7AL

Objective morality must be a set of clear, non-context-sensitive, Quantifiable LOGICALLY COHERENT principles and or specific rules that each have specific, prescribed consequences that have NO EXCEPTIONS.

All you've provided are SUBJECTIVE guidelines (no death penalty for cursing a parent) with zero detectable consequences (eternal hellfire + whatever your local government says).
The death penalty was a Mosaic law. Prove otherwise?
Side note: "YOu can't proove me wrongg!" is an appeal-to-ignorance.
Define proof. I most definitely believe I can prove you wrong on many biblical matters. 

What covenant did God make with Israel?

What covenant did Jesus make with humanity?

But you've already said you don't follow strict Mosaic Law.
Jesus met the condition of the law on behalf of believers. That includes the 613 Mosaic laws for Old Covenant Jews and the Ten Commandments on behalf of all humanity. We at least recognize the human aspects of the Ten Commandments, those that apply to humanity, as wrong and even criminal.  

The Ten Commandments were included in both covenants. Jesus comes to an Old Covenant people to establish a new covenant. 

When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”


Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

God's kindness in Jesus Christ leads many to a new life and peace with God. Jesus fulfills the old to establish the new covenant yet it is still wrong to murder, lie, steal, covet, commit adultery, worship idols, take God's name in vain. 

So Mosaic Law can't possibly be the standard of your hypothetical "objective-morality".
The principles of the Ten Commandments are carried through into the New Covenant. Jesus even gives more insight into them.  

Is "love" your "objective-morality"??  AND if it is, HOW DO WE APPLY IT IN THE (modern day) REAL-WORLD?
It revolves around a love for others and love for God but the commandments identify the penalty for wrongs that are not loving, including murder, coveting, adultery, stealing, lying and maligning your neighbour, dishonouring your parents regarding loving human beings. 

Love fulfills the law and the love of Christ on our behalf has fulfilled the law for us. He has done what we could not do. If we could do it we would have no need for a Savior. 

Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

I NEED SPECIFIC (UNIVERSAL) RULES AND PUNISHMENTS.
The Rules:
Do not murder, do not lie, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not covet, honour your parents, dealing with humanity.
The rest deal with our relationship with God such as keep the Sabbath holy unto God, do not worship idols, do not take God's name in vain, and have no other gods before God. 

The Biblical Penalty:
Murder --> OT - life for life; NT - I cannot find a change unless you take Jesus' statement, "an eye for an eye" to include life for life. I don't see that as being the case but underlying murder in the NT is the heavenly penalty which again is death, this time spiritual death or separation from God. 
Stealing: The penalties vary but the OT and NT principle is usually recompensation of equal value, then some. There are a number of different circumstances in which stealing is applied. There are cases in which the penalty is death because of the severity of the crime. The heavenly penalty is spiritual death, as for all sin. 
Bearing false witness/lying --> The OT punishment varies depending on the severity, blasphemy against God resulting in stoning to death. The heavenly punishment for liars who do not repent is spiritual death or separation from God for eternity. 
Coveting --> This command is the root cause in the causal tree of many other sinful actions. Covetousness and envy can lead to jealousy, stealing, murder, immoral desires that cause all kinds of strife. Again, the heavenly penalty is spiritual death, separation from God. Coveting is an impure thought and action that has no place in heaven. 
Adultery --> God institutes marriage as an image or symbolism of a relationship with God, thus it is a sacred covenant between two people, a man and a woman. Marriage is intimate and the result of the joining in the covenant is the blessing and formation of a family that is best suited to the influence of both the male and the female. Marriage is also seen in Israel's relationship with God (the Old Covenant) and the churches union with Jesus Christ. Thus, adultery is taken very seriously, not only in the physical union but also in the spiritual union. What adultery does is it disrespects the faithful commitment agreed to by both parties. It hurts and harms not only the husband and wife but also the family unite. The OT penalty was stoning to death yet Moses permitted divorce in some cases. Thus again, the heavenly penalty for such actions is spiritual death and separation from God. 

Worldly Penalties:
Murder --> varies from prison sentences to capital punishment.
Stealing --> usually compensation and/or prison sentences but varies on the severity of the goods stolen. In some cultures, it also carried with it the loss of a hand.
Bearing false witness/lying --> again the penalty varies depending on the severity of the lie from mere exposure to death for covering up treason in some countries. 
Coveting --> Although not a crime until carried through to say adultery and even that not a crime in many societies, it is immoral thinking that leads to other acts. When someone covets their neighbour's wife their minds create a lustful desire with intent to possess or flirt that can lead to adultery. When they covet their neighbour's car it may lead to stealing that car depending on how strong the desire is. This is an interesting sin since many people today do not even recognize it as undesirable anymore. It is so coated by the societies we live in by the culture of our times that it is not recognized how much this quality causes many wrongs in society.
Adultery --> It again varies and in many countries, it is not even considered a crime anymore but a lifestyle change. The fact is that many, perhaps most people understand it as wrong, especially those who have been betrayed by their spouse and they and their families destroyed by such actions. In Hollywood, the act of adultery and sexual immorality along with violence is glorified and promoted into the culture and exported to other cultures to the extent that it affects and desensitizes us to the wrong of such actions. That is the sickness of what Hollywood promotes around the world. Modesty is no longer practiced because of its influencing on pornography. Sexual additions are starting younger and younger. The moral compass of many societies has been affected greatly by the 1960s and the age of sexual liberation. That movement has led to greater and greater desensitization of what is wrong. The pricetag of what is right and wrong has been switched so that many people are unable to recognize the difference. Most things have become relative to the individual, sub-group, and culture. Truth has been changed to personal preference and your truth as opposed to my truth. Many people do not seem to recognize that truth is the truth and cannot change just because a person believes otherwise.    

The penalties vary around the world. But the point is that many if not most people recognize these things are wrong and not desirable attributes or actions. 

Because, without specifics, it's PURELY SUBJECTIVE.
Is it subjective that murder is wrong?

Is it subjective that lying is wrong?

Is it subjective that adultery is wrong?

Is it subjective that coveting is wrong?

Is it subjective that stealing is wrong? 

Look, you have avoided answering most of my questions to date so I ask for your answer if you have not done so. I only work on one post at a time. I do not read ahead.
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That does not mean they get out of jail free for their earthly crimes. They still need to serve the sentence.  
Based on what?  What's the "objective" universal rule and prescribed punishment?
Based on human laws and government-sanctioned penalties for breaking such laws. 

The universals are based on God's commands. Even without acknowledging God most societies have laws that prohibit murder, stealing, lying. They are not only what we know ourselves (subjective) but also what others know and enforce in most societies (universals). 

It's "free" because they merely need to repent (regret) and believe.
So you don't believe in second chances. You don't believe in extending mercy to those who have truly changed their behaviour. 
Do you only believe in second chances AFTER YOU DIE?
No, I do not. Our second chance comes in this life. There is a purpose in this life. We have volition. God has given us a will to choose. Our will is no longer free, since the original sin, but we still choose. We choose what we want, what we desire, and in some cases what we know as right and wrong. Original sin has marred our thinking. It has created flaws in us because we no longer have that close godly perspective where God walks (figuratively speaking) with us, where we experience His presence. Jesus, the Second Adam, restores that relationship lost in Eden for those who will believe, who will covenant with God according to His prescribed manner - the Son. Those who have the Son have life in God. Those who do not 

John 3:18-21 (NASB)
18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [a]only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 

The sad reality is that you and I, without God's kindness in helping us hear the word, love darkness. We love to do our own thing. We love to do what is contrary to God. That is why Jesus said we must be born again, regenerated, changed from our hatred to God, to see and enter His kingdom and experience His righteousness. The new life is a changed life. We no longer reject His word. We no longer hid from His presence. We no longer deny Him but acknowledge Him. 

Mercy should be built into the LAW.  Mercy shouldn't be ARBITRARY and based on SUBJECTIVE OPINION.
Then you need an objective source for laws. You need an objective, absolute, unchanging standard; something you do not want to admit to yourself. 

Mercy should be "objective" and universal.  Mercy should be based on EXPLICIT rules so it can be enforced without BIAS.
Are these explicit?

You shall not murder.
You shall not lie.
You shall not covet another's goods, wife, possessions.
You shall not steal.
You shall not commit adultery. 
Honour your parents that your life may be a long life.

I ask you again, it is wrong to murder? 

Please tell me that you know the difference between murder and manslaughter or self-defence.
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I'm still waiting for your "impartial" "objective" legal code.
You are going to wait a long time since you do not recognize God's standard for humanity. You have not been able to tell me that murder is wrong. You can't even admit it because it gives away your faulty thinking. That is a deficiency in your worldview standard, not mine. Not only this, your belief fails the experiential standard which is can you live with it? If you do not recognize murder as wrong, can you live with some maniac murdering your family members (heaven forbid)? 

I have given some insight into how the world we live in handles most of those Ten Commandments that deal with our relationship with other human beings. Most cultures, societies, subgroups, individuals have a sense of what is right and wrong. They recognize these things as moral wrongs. I have given you reasons why we should not murder each other. We are created in the image and likeness of God. Again, what you do with that claim is up to you and is between you and God. 
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This is another RED-HERRING.
No, it is not. Whatever I say you will have another objection.
Only if you fail to produce a perfectly "objective" set of moral guidelines.

Are you sticking with "love"?
Love meets the requirements of the law. Can you meet the requirements? If so, you have no worries. Have you met the requirements of the law - love? Have you ever taken a pen from work home with you? That added to your employer's costs. It also involved taking something that was not yours. You did not buy it and the stationary was not your own, only on loan to you and others while at work. Have you ever taken more of something free than you needed and prevented other people from enjoying the same freebee? See how well you can go without telling a lie, a small peccadillo, for a week. See if you can go one week without having lustful thoughts about a woman who is not your wife for a week. See if you can go without hatred or anger that is not righteous anger in your heart and mind for a week. Now you catch a glimpse of the problem. Try changing that nature and you will realize you are under bondage. It is not in your control to change doing these things completely. You need the grace of God.  
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Today, in modern times the lesson is,
1) To obey the laws of the land,
2) To not hold a grudge personally but to love not only our neighbours but our enemies, 
3) To not seek an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth,
4) That these Ten Commandments are still binding but mercy is also at play.
Jesus even elaborates on two of them, adultery and what that means, and hatred and anger in relation to murders.
5) Jesus has met the letter of the law for the believer. He has satisfied its righteousness on behalf of those who have faith and trust in Him. 
Nice!

So all I have to do is obey the logically incoherent, ever changing, perfectly subjective LAWS OF THE LAND.
The laws of the land are not perfect unless they follow the decrees and commands of God but He has placed those in authority there for a purpose. In turning away from God He allows those who are not just to control the society and the laws reflect injustice. When such laws are made those who are Christians should shine a light on those laws and prayer to God for His mercy. Hopefully, the people who voted or support the unjust leader will change that leadership with the next election. If an election is not possible, such as in China or North Korea for a change of leadership the only option is to shine a light on the unjust practices and prayer in hope that God will change the leadership. By turning to God we adopt laws that are in line with Him. 

The rest only applies AFTER DEATH.
The Ten Commandments dealing with humanity should apply in this lifetime too for justice is needed here, not in heaven where there is no sin. 

And since I was doing this already, basically "The Bible" is WORTHLESS as a day-to-day-real-world guide to "objective" morality.
Doing what? Do you agree that abortion is a woman's choice? 

Why is what you do good unless there is a standard of best that is our appeal? Why should what you do be considered good unless there is such a standard? Can you answer these questions?

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...provided I interpret it correctly.
There it is.

There is a correct way to interpret any text.
Is there?  What would lead you to believe this?
I experience it for one. Logically, for another. 

If I want to understand what you have said I have to understand your meaning. It is a fact that there is a correct meaning or else communication would be impossible. Since we understand each other at times we have derived the correct meaning. When our language is ambiguous we ask for clarity. We seek additional information to understand.

The Bible is the Christian's highest authority or should be. We need to understand what God has said and where there are questions as to whether we have or not we need to justify our reasoning as to why it is the case. 

You must understand the author's meaning to correctly intepret. 
How can you know exactly how much certainty is warranted?
How? By studying God's word to the point that you are not swayed by every wind of doctrine or opinion. There is a unity in His word that not too many people understand because they may have not read the Bible from cover to cover or miss the relevant audience of address or misinterpret the time frame. God's word is its own interpreter. Within it are the answers and explanations we seek.




 

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God's word is its own interpreter.
This statement is pure genius.
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Why is what you do good unless there is a standard of best that is our appeal?
Where's your standard?
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Try changing that nature and you will realize you are under bondage.
Correct.  An omniscient omnipotent god created all human desires and instincts and knew exactly what I would do at the dawn of time.
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God's word is its own interpreter.
This statement is pure genius.

I can't take credit for it. (^8

What it means is that it explains itself. We have four gospels that supply various aspects of the life of Jesus. We have numerous epistles that provide information on what was spoken of by Jesus and the OT prophets and writers. Thus we can cross-reference. We can compare one Scripture with another to get a clear understanding of teaching or doctrine.