Opinion Poll: Are the bans going too far?

Author: bmdrocks21

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#1
bmdrocks21
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I would like to conduct a poll on the current enforcement of bans. PinkFreud was just banned "by request". There is no information as to why a respected member of the community has been banned. I'm not his biggest fan, but I certainly would like him on the site to keep things interesting. Dr. Franklin seems to get a temporary ban about every two weeks. This makes the site border line-objectively less enjoyable when people I enjoy talking to are removed from the site permanently or for over a week. It is also less enjoyable having to walk on egg shells when talking to people here.

I believe we need more transparency on why temporary bans occur, as well as information on either who requested a "ban by request" or at least some reasoning.

Permanent bans should not be shrouded in mystery. 

Let me know your thoughts on how a reform to banning should look or why it should stay the same.

Thank You! :)
#2
Ramshutu
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We have a van log that tells you why permanent bans were handed out.


”Bans by Request” mean the individual being banned has specifically asked for the ban

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#3
bmdrocks21
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@Ramshutu
Why would someone ask for a ban instead of just leaving? That doesn't make sense
#4
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@bmdrocks21
Because it’s the closest thing you can get to account deletion.
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#5
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@Ramshutu
Yeah, but leaving for good and deleting accomplish the same thing. I understand club wanting to get a better Win/Loss ratio without violating the multiple account policy. I just never was able to get an explanation on what "ban by request" meant, and the wording made it sound like another member requested it. Perhaps "voluntary account deletion" would be a better name.

The point about temporary bans still stands.

#6
Discipulus_Didicit
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Nah, I don't think the bans are "going too far".
#7
PressF4Respect
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@bmdrocks21
Mods aren’t allowed to disclose the rationales for temp bans, for some reason.
#8
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@PressF4Respect
The mods have decided that for people that will be re-entering the community after a set period it should be up to them whether they wish for their infraction to be public. This avoids accusations of public shaming, something that is not relevant in the case of perma bans where users are not expected to re-enter the community.

Not saying I agree or disagree with this policy, just stating the rationale behind it as I understand it.
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#9
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@PressF4Respect
I am aware of that. I just think it would make more sense to also mention why temporary bans were placed.
#10
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@bmdrocks21
Yeah, but leaving for good and deleting accomplish the same thing.
Pink requested that his own account be banned. Frankly, it is up to him to make that call, and I don't pry too much into the reasons for those requests.

I just never was able to get an explanation on what "ban by request" meant
The ban log explains this: "Entries of bans by request (i.e. bans a user requested be applied to their own account) will state the date the ban was effectuated."
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#11
bmdrocks21
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Page not found. I'll take your word for it. Was that added after the initial post? 
#12
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@bmdrocks21
I believe we need more transparency on why temporary bans occur
The information Disc provided succinctly summarizes moderation's position. If users are going to reenter the community, they should be given an opportunity to do so without the stigma of a public shaming. Moderation does not disclose the reasons for temp bans for that reason.

However, users who are temp banned are given time to issue public objections to their banning prior to their ban being effectuated, and they may always object after their bans end. If the user wishes to disclose the reasons for their ban, they are free to do so, but that is their choice.

as well as information on either who requested a "ban by request" or at least some reasoning.
That information is clearly stated in the ban log. I believe you simply misread or did not see the statement which I quote in my previous post in this thread. 

Permanent bans should not be shrouded in mystery. 
They are not. A great deal of information is disclosed when a permanent ban is recorded in the ban log, including, importantly, the reasons for the ban.

#13
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@bmdrocks21
Page not found. I'll take your word for it. Was that added after the initial post? 

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#14
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@bsh1
The permanent bans comment was related to what I thought a ban by request was. My bad.


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#15
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@bsh1
I guess that is a fair position. I just look through the temp. banned's profile and usually can't find anything scandalous. I like to know the concrete examples to better shape my behavior. 

I also feel enforcement is too common. Dr. Franklin gets a ton of temp. bans, and he is harmless.
#16
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@bmdrocks21
Have your concerns been addressed?
#17
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@bmdrocks21
I also feel enforcement is too common.
Some people think I am too strict, some think I am too lenient. It's a lose-lose. So, while I appreciate your feelings, I think that if I am elating no one, I am compromising/balancing correctly.
#18
RationalMadman
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@bsh1
I think that if I am elating no one, I am compromising/balancing correctly.
Wrong. You are being two-faced and wrong in both how lenient AND how strict you are. You are both to different users at different times.

#19
TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
PinkFreud was just banned "by request". There is no information as to why a respected member of the community has been banned
I spoke to him and yes he did say he did it if that was worth anything. Your point here is not substantial.

I'm not his biggest fan, but I certainly would like him on the site to keep things interesting. Dr. Franklin seems to get a temporary ban about every two weeks.
Interesting? Almost every comment he gives is a one word comment. He doesn't put in effort. He just wants to be #1 because he can't be #1 in debating.

This makes the site border line-objectively less enjoyable when people I enjoy talking to are removed from the site permanently or for over a week. It is also less enjoyable having to walk on egg shells when talking to people here.
It is also less enjoyable when you try to have a conversation but the other person doesn't even bother. This is definitely the case with Dr.Franklin. I value that more than different rules for different users. 

I believe we need more transparency on why temporary bans occur, as well as information on either who requested a "ban by request" or at least some reasoning.
Guess transparency would be cool. Pink was banned by request. Dr.Franklin is bad. Beg bsh1.

Permanent bans should not be shrouded in mystery. 
Not a single ban you spoke about was shrouded in mystery. Pink's ban is more of a request ban then it ever was a permanent. I am sure bsh1 can re-instate the account if Pink wants it but with other people permanently banned like I think Magic he can't do the same. 

Did you even read this?

There is much more detail with permanent bans yet you still state there is mystery behind it.

Let me know your thoughts on how a reform to banning should look or why it should stay the same.
I only agree on transparency but even that I think the amount is given now should be enough to know what is allowed or not allowed on the site. Everything else I disagree with you. 

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#20
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@bsh1
Sure, addressed. Have to agree to disagree on some areas.
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#21
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@TheRealNihilist
Had you read the thread, you would have seen that most of that has been cleared up. But thanks ^_^
#22
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Had you read the thread, you would have seen that most of that has been cleared up. But thanks ^_^
Well oke doke.

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#23
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@TheRealNihilist
At least we agreed on something :)
#24
AvoidDeath
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@bmdrocks21
I come from a deep, dark place, called debate.org, where all the druggies, all the thieves, and all the robbers hide. Let me tell you, bans are good. I personally do not want to see this site become DDO.
#25
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I come from a deep, dark place, called debate.org, where all the druggies, all the thieves, and all the robbers hide. Let me tell you, bans are good. I personally do not want to see this site become DDO.
:)
or 
:(

I can be both sides really given one specific problemo. 
#26
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@RationalMadman
How is bsh1 wrong?
How is bsh1 "being two-faced and wrong"?
What makes bsh1 "both to different users at different times"?
#27
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@Christen
I have gone into depth on it before, would you like case study examples, such as deleting my debates for the exact reason that he didn't delete others as well as after the MEEP that officially enacted it as a rule, I reported the debates with banned users but no deletion occured?

Would you like me to highlight how Ramshutu talks to me like a piece of fucking vermin, how people can call me vermin (rat) and if I were to speak in the same tone and style of taunting to them, I have extreme legal precedent to show I'd be banned for it?
#28
Ramshutu
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I have gone into depth on it before, would you like case study examples, such as deleting my debates for the exact reason that he didn't delete others as well as after the MEEP that officially enacted it as a rule, I reported the debates with banned users but no deletion occured?

Would you like me to highlight how Ramshutu talks to me like a piece of fucking vermin, how people can call me vermin (rat) and if I were to speak in the same tone and style of taunting to them, I have extreme legal precedent to show I'd be banned for it?
1.) As has been repeatedly pointed out your debates were deleted as they were created by a permanently banned member. Other new debates were not deleted because they made by members that were banned after the debate was started. Different scenarios. Likewise, a multitude of other debates (including one of mine), were most assuredly deleted when determined they were created by permanently banned members. You’re mixing hotel different scenarios and conditions.

2.) Whole I most definitely talk down to you; most of what I say is limited to challenging the things you say, the claims you make, or ridiculing the false accusations that you continue to repeatedly and unceasingly level at me. Don’t confuse my repeatedly attacking and rejecting the things you say as “treating you like vermin.” Because frankly, aside from the occasional minor slip into the most trivial and low level insult, my posts are almost completely and exclusively dedicated to attacking the things you say - which get absolutely no protection.

3.) As mentioned, you repeatedly and unceasingly attack me here, on debates, in comments, on your votes; you’ve repeatedly challenged my integrity, called me out publicly in threads, in mediocre raps, sent me angry PMs, called me anti Semitic, repeatedly accused me of being someone else, claimed I have tried driving people to suicide, and threatened to doxx me multiple times; in a continued and repeated pattern of unceasing personal attacks. Your behaviour is borderline abuse and harassment which I tolerate mostly because I find it hilarious.

People in glass houses, counting a traveling display of priceless Ming vases, Chinese porcelain and containing the ancient mesoptomanian clay pottery, under priceless crystal chandeliers that illuminate priceless, but delicate sandalwood floor carvings between ancient Roman mosaic flooring; should not throw boulders using a trebuchet   


#29
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They were made by King_8 alts who are already banned. nice try.
#30
RationalMadman
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I don't see it as an issue that I need to be more disciplined than you do, Ramshutu. I see it as a compliment to my self-discipline that I can reign it in and hold my cool while you're sneering at me with the crowd jeering you on (yes sneering, jeering, I know). 

Rudyard Kipling's 'if' is always a go to but frankly it should be rewritten and be more about being a disciplined person worthy of admiration; whether a woman or a man.