Errors atheists commonly make

Author: Fallaneze 5 years ago

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Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

08.27.2019 05:24PM

Here are just some of the errors atheists commonly make:

If religion (X) is false, God doesn't exist.

Is you can't prove God does exist, God does not exist.

Atheism is just a lack of belief that a God exists.

Atheism isn't a worldview.

There is no evidence of God.

Atheism doesn't entail any implications. It's just lacking belief in God.

Anti-theism, not atheism, is the belief God doesn't exist.

Science evidences atheism.

You can't prove a negative.

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

08.28.2019 08:12AM

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@Fallaneze

Your little list of errors is a little list of errors. In so much as every argument generally has a counter argument.

1. If a religion is false, then it's simply false. A god still might or might not exist.

2. If you can't prove that a God exists, it's a good starting point for non-belief.

3. Atheism is but one way of interpreting certain data.

4. A worldview interprets a greater amount data.

5. There is no real evidence of a God. Only human constructs.

6. Atheism and theism are but two ways of interpreting the same data. Implications are resultant assumptions.

7. a) Misuse of the prefix.

b) Theism is belief, atheism is non-belief. (Belief generally defined as acceptance without proof.)

8. Science is what it is, and therefore provides us with more rigorously scrutinized data. Allowing us a greater level of certainty and less reliance on

assumption.

9. Negative is multi-definitional and so it is difficult to discern what is being driven at here. Though if something can be proved it can, and if it can't it can't. As things stand neither the existence or non-existence of a god can be proved.

Christen

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Christen

08.28.2019 03:36PM

What zedvictor4 said.

Topic's author

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

08.28.2019 03:40PM

My list of errors was intended to be a list of errors.

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

08.28.2019 08:53PM

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@zedvictor4

Your little list of errors is a little list of errors. In so much as every argument generally has a counter argument.

I see no errors in his little list. It's pretty straight forward, and accommodates the atheist mentality.

1. If a religion is false, then it's simply false. A god still might or might not exist.

Exactly, we agree here 100%

2. If you can't prove that a God exists, it's a good starting point for non-belief.

Wrong, an individual can't prove God exists, this takes the practice of spirituality, which is a cultivation. It's not a good starting point for atheists to deny God because they haven't connected with that reality, sorry dude.

3. Atheism is but one way of interpreting certain data.

Yes, and so is Theism.

4. A worldview interprets a greater amount data.

An atheist worldview is limited by materialism, they don't have any real say in the matter lol.

5. There is no real evidence of a God. Only human constructs.

That's where you drop the ball and no longer understand what evidence consists of...."human" constructs are what emphasizes that reality, just like anything you learn about dummy...

6. Atheism and theism are but two ways of interpreting the same data. Implications are resultant assumptions.

I agree, only atheism limits your output, period. They aren't the same equals in interpretations.

7. a) Misuse of the prefix.
b) Theism is belief, atheism is non-belief. (Belief generally defined as acceptance without proof.)

Theism is belief based on the corresponding evidence.

8. Science is what it is, and therefore provides us with more rigorously scrutinized data. Allowing us a greater level of certainty and less reliance on
assumption.

Science is universal, it doesn't have any say on the reality that God exists. Sorry.

9. Negative is multi-definitional and so it is difficult to discern what is being driven at here. Though if something can be proved it can, and if it can't it can't. As things stand neither the existence or non-existence of a god can be proved.

Are you lost? or are you trying to make a point?? The evidence that correlates with spirituality is overwhelming, anyone who ignores it is missing the mark.

WyseGui

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WyseGui

08.29.2019 04:16AM

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@Fallaneze

Well there are some who understand what Atheism really is and some who don't. But who is trying to prove a negative? And why would an atheist need to. Not knowing is a natural state. It is the logical starting point when seeking any sort of objective information. Everyone works that way. Religion is the only thing people completely give in to this way. Understandably, I suppose. Even with no objective evidence. At all.

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

08.29.2019 05:48AM

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@EtrnlVw

Nope I'm perfectly happy with my response.

You have a reliance on spirituality. Which is something that you create within yourself and not something that is created for you by an external influence.

There is no real difference between us, other than a slight variation in output.

Christen

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Christen

08.29.2019 06:45PM

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@EtrnlVw

Wrong, an individual can't prove God exists, this takes the practice of spirituality, which is a cultivation. It's not a good starting point for atheists to deny God because they haven't connected with that reality, sorry dude.

Where does the burden of proof lie? Is it the believer's responsibility to prove to the non-believer that God exists, or the non-believer's responsibility to prove to the believer that God doesn't exist?

An atheist worldview is limited by materialism, they don't have any real say in the matter lol.

And.... a theist's worldview is limited by a 1000+ year old book called the bible/quran, and by lack of evidence.

Theism is belief based on the corresponding evidence.

What "corresponding evidence" is there that God exists?

Science is universal, it doesn't have any say on the reality that God exists.

Neither does religion.

Are you lost? or are you trying to make a point?? The evidence that correlates with spirituality is overwhelming, anyone who ignores it is missing the mark.

I think we're both lost about what your so-called "evidence" is all about, and also trying to make the point that "spirituality" makes no sense.

Outplayz

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Outplayz

08.29.2019 07:26PM

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@Christen

Is it the believer's responsibility to prove to the non-believer that God exists, or the non-believer's responsibility to prove to the believer that God doesn't exist?

It doesn't matter. I can tell you all of my experiences and how i came to where i am and you still are left with the choice to believe me or not. And, if you don't experience it for yourself, you may never believe me or anyone else. The best you can do is logically destroy the frauds. You, as a non-believer, are actually better at that than someone like me... so ultimately, i don't want to prove anything bc your existence is necessary. How do i prove anything to you when i think god means people like atheists and theists are all a part of game?

And.... a theist's worldview is limited by a 1000+ year old book called the bible/quran, and by lack of evidence.

You're right, but theist doesn't mean religious. You're fixated on easy wins. I don't get why anyone serious about spirituality would bother debating these Abrahamic religions. All you are going to end up with is lies and manipulation, and you know that's what's going to happen... yet, atheists continue to debate them... i don't get it.

What "corresponding evidence" is there that God exists?

My entire life and experiences i've had, highly make me suspect there is something behind this reality... Logically, the best platform that would explain my suspicions are infinite consciousness, oneness, non-duality, panpsychism, etc... all of these, depending on how you define them, imply everything, infinity, is consciousness. I just call it source since it's the platform... don't really care about which one is right bc more important is who i am to the platform. In any case, you can also call this platform god. I think people shouldn't, but you can. What evidence? This reality. People's experiences. There is no material evidence... bc this isn't something material and encompasses "all."

Neither does religion.

Both religion and science have pieces of the puzzle... but both people obsessed with either or cannot see their own limitations. To me, that's by design. (Not literal design... but obvious that's what an infinite consciousness would do).

I think we're both lost about what your so-called "evidence" is all about, and also trying to make the point that "spirituality" makes no sense.

Spirituality makes no sense to you... that's a limitation i was previously talking about that you can't see within yourself. Why would you assume others haven't transcended this limitation? It's really a human thing... people hate thinking there are levels and that someone may be above them.

#10

ebuc

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ebuc

08.29.2019 08:20PM

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@Outplayz

...but obvious that's what an infinite consciousness would do).....

There exists no evidence for "infinite consciousness".

A finite occupied space Universe is all humans have ever observed, and all they will ever observe.do not grasp

Here is what irrational, illogical lack of common sense people do not grasp and refuse to even attempt;

1} finite = integrity,

2} infinite = no integrity.

Why simple is so complex for some adult humans is due to two reasons and most times both in combination;

1} preconditioned education,

2} ego.

The truth exists for those who seek it. Only a rare few seek the truth.

#11

Outplayz

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Outplayz

08.29.2019 10:00PM

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@ebuc

There exists no evidence for "infinite consciousness".

How do you know?

#12

ebuc

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ebuc

08.29.2019 10:31PM

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@Outplayz

How do you know?

Please share when you have evidence of "infinite consciousness" so please take you mind games elsewhere OP

. Thanks, Ebuc

Topic's author

#13

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

08.29.2019 11:01PM

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@WyseGui

Lots of atheists (falsely) believe you can't prove a negative.

Topic's author

#14

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

08.29.2019 11:02PM

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@Christen

Theres an equal burden of proof between believing God does and does not exist.

#15

Outplayz

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Outplayz

08.29.2019 11:11PM

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@ebuc

Please share when you have evidence of "infinite consciousness" so please take you mind games elsewhere OP

I've never seen the color purple... can you give me evidence purple exists? Or, is that just something i have to experience myself or more importantly, something "i can" figure out myself without seeing it? What type of evidence would help me figure out at the very least purple exists?

#16

ebuc

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ebuc

08.29.2019 11:20PM

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@Outplayz

I've never seen the color purple... can you give me evidence purple exists? Or, is that just something i have to experience myself or more importantly, something "i can" figure out myself without seeingl it? What type of evidence would help me figure out at the very least purple exists?

Ok so its back to playing mind games is it OP. Please share when you have evidence of your false belief of and " infinite consciousness".

Here is what I do have evidence of keep avoiding for a few years now.

Fiinite = integrity

Infinite = lack of integrity.

Please share when you want to have a raational, logical common sense disscussion. Please Outplayz. You can do it if you drop your ego and preconditioning

#17

Outplayz

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Outplayz

08.30.2019 12:48AM

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@ebuc

Here is what I do have evidence of keep avoiding for a few years now.

And what makes your ego so big to think i should believe you?

#18

Christen

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Christen

08.30.2019 01:18AM

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@Outplayz

It's really a human thing... people hate thinking there are levels and that someone may be above them.

How do we know that "there are levels"? What exactly are "levels" supposed to even mean in this case? If these so-called levels that you speak of do exist, then what level are we? Level 2? 3? Is there any way we could level up or is there some magic curse keeping us stuck at our current level? What's the highest level anyone can be? Level 100 like in Pokemon? Does one need to travel to some secret dungeon in Mexico and slay some mythical beast to gain experience and level, like in those MMORPG games?

How do we know that "someone may be above" us? What does it mean to "be above" us anyways? Above us how? Like in physical location? Above us in terms of some kind of skill? Above us in terms of some kind of inherent trait?

#19

Outplayz

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Outplayz

08.30.2019 01:32AM

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@Christen

How do we know that "there are levels"?

Well your first step is to realize this. These levels don't mean one is better or worse... it's just things one knows and can know vs. someone else. I would say i am above a dogs level to reason... i would say Albert Einstein was above my level in understanding physics. It's really simple. It becomes harder when this comes down to a direct conflict in information... that's when people just can't let go of their level even if the other gives them direct evidence... case in point, some religious people vs. scientists. They'd rather maintain a delusion rather than concede someone see's things above their level of understanding. Atheists can fall into this trap too. It really is moot however bc it's also very scientific. There are people that simply cannot reason or use logic... i would say they are at a lower level to someone that can. It then comes down to personality and if they can just let go of their ego. It's all good practice if you are still someone willingly to grow... if you're not, then what i'm saying would be the same thing as me arguing a dog that it's a dog... it will just never get it. There are humans like that too. Just bc some have to capacity to surpass their levels doesn't mean everyone can.

#20

ebuc

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ebuc

08.30.2019 02:29AM

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@Outplayz

And what makes your ego so big to think i should believe you?

Ego is irrelevant to truth. Your still lost in your own space-suit.

The truth exists for those who seek it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Finite = integrity

Infinite = lack of integrity.

Please share when you want to have a raational, logical common sense disscussion. Please Outplayz. You can do it if you drop your ego and preconditioning

#21

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

08.30.2019 06:24AM

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@ebuc

Egomania!

Truth is reality

Finite = Limited

Infinite = Unlimited.

We are all preconditioned.

We are all, also subsequently conditioned.

#22

WyseGui

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WyseGui

08.30.2019 05:31PM

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@Fallaneze

Maybe you can but that is besides the point. Atheist don't need to. You know that.

#23

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

08.30.2019 08:53PM

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@Christen

Where does the burden of proof lie?

In your own participation. Spirituality is an individual cultivation, what I can do is give you answers not proof. It's up to you to decide what is true with my answers/arguments.

Is it the believer's responsibility to prove to the non-believer that God exists

No because that can't be done due to the nature of spirituality, however we can offer you information, experience and a vast range of knowledge that all pertains to that reality.

or the non-believer's responsibility to prove to the believer that God doesn't exist?

Lol well you can try, unfortunately that can't be done. Your responsibility is to be smart, open-minded and not controlled by atheism or any worldview. You don't disregard anything because you feel it's absurd. If you want to discuss or debate anything just ask about it. Don't get me wrong I'm always prepared to argue my positions just follow my posts, but asking for "proof" is just immature.

And.... a theist's worldview is limited by a 1000+ year old book called the bible/quran, and by lack of evidence.

Ouch, are you serious? you haven't begun to inquire about my beliefs, you haven't asked me anything lol. I'm an Omnist, I evaluate spirituality and religion as a whole, so we have to understand one another here. You do that by asking, this shaves off plenty of wasted effort and time.

What "corresponding evidence" is there that God exists?

That which correlates with the nature of a transcendent reality....religion, spirituality, spiritual encounters, paranormal, NDE's, spiritual texts/literature, OBE's ect ect….and everything that falls into that category. These are all evidence that indicates that this is an objective reality.

Neither does religion.

That is the study of that reality, of course it does although there is personal experience and testimonial evidence. Doesn't mean religious sources are always correct but that is where you have the knowledge that correlates with Theism. With your own participation is how you learn what is accurate and what is not.

I think we're both lost about what your so-called "evidence" is all about, and also trying to make the point that "spirituality" makes no sense.

Spirituality is a term used to describe the application and study of the nature of Theism, the evidence is what was listed. You can fluff it off, but when you're ready to deal with it we can discuss it. There is a science to spirituality of course it makes sense.

But, I'm not convinced you want to go there, unless you can prove to me you're not already brainwashed and that you are able to look passed the conditioning of your mind.

#24

zedvictor4

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zedvictor4

09.01.2019 06:34AM

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@EtrnlVw

Not being able to provide "proof" is where your argument comes tumbling down.

And asking for "proof" is reasonable and certainly not immature.

Belief in supernatural myths and tales is immature.

Most of us were told fairy tales when we were infants

I bet that you still believe in Santa Claus. LOL.

#25

Dr.Franklin

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Dr.Franklin

09.02.2019 12:06AM

another one!

Atheist:Miracles cant happen

But an all-powerful God can make miracles happen, assuming this is just saying the Bible is False because it just it, a fallacy

#26

Dr.Franklin

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Dr.Franklin

09.02.2019 01:28AM

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@zedvictor4

I bet that you still believe in Santa Claus. LOL.

UHHHH, boi he real

36 days later

#27

secularmerlin

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secularmerlin

10.08.2019 03:26PM

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@Fallaneze

Atheism is just a lack of belief that a God exists.

Atheism isn't a worldview.

As always I must argue that these are not errors. I do not believe in any god(s) so I am therefore an atheist. I do not know with certainty that no god(s) exist so I am also therefore agnostic. When you falsely equate agnosticism which concerns itself only with knowledge, or at least the claim of knowledge, with atheism which concerns itself only with belief, you are muddying the waters.

There is no evidence of God.

You could claim that the fact that anything exists is evidence for some god(s) but it is equally evidence of universe creating pixies and spaghetti monsters or even just evidence that things can in fact happen spontaneously with no cause.

You could say that evidence exists that had convinced you that some god(s) must exist but you clearly mean a very different thing than I do when I say that I can provide evidence that gravity exists.

Science evidences atheism.

If any atheists say this then they misunderstand what science is for but I feel this may actually be a mischaracterization of the argument "science does not evidence any god" which is true.

You can't prove a negative.

Again it is true that some negatives can be proven (specifically those that violate physical law) but surely you realize that atheists who use this argument are referring to a very specific kind of claim. For example you cannot prove conclusively that the universe when viewed from the outside does not form a perfect four dimensional model of Jay Leno's head because the universe cannot be viewed from the outside and so no contrary evidence exists for the idea.