What is the self?

Author: Cogent_Cognizer

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#1
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So, this is something I've pondered over ever since I was a child and never figured out. I know it seems like a basic question that "normies" probably feel they have the answer to.

But, let me explain something here. I'm someone with a dissociative disorder, sometimes experiencing what is known in psychology as "depersonalization". I suppose everyone might experience it once or a few times in their life, but it's a fairly common experience for me. Perhaps some kind of drug could reproduce the effect, so if anyone has experienced what I'm going to describe, let me know and what your thoughts are on this. 

So, during such occurrences, the best way to describe what is happening is that the "self" disconnects from one's body. You essentially become an outside observer to one's own body. There was a recent groundbreaking study in neuroscience about a year ago looking at patients with various disorders which caused involuntary movement or a feeling of a loss of free will, which seem to have pinpointed a region of the brain responsible for feeling "free will" or like one is in control of their body. [1] [2] One must ask, what does this mean then? These patients still felt a sense of self as do I when I dissociate or seize(been having recent seizures as well where I feel not in control of course). In each case, I still feel alive, that I'm myself, but it's as though the self is an outside observer to my body during this time. 

If one's connection to one's body is controlled by one's brain, then is the self not actually connected to the body otherwise? And if not, why does the self still exist under such a circumstance? Is the entirety of the brain's neurochemistry what makes oneself the self? This can't be the case as those who lose such connections, like those with alzhemier's, still report to be themselves, albeit they lose functionality and connections in the brain.

Let's see what you all think.

#2
EtrnlVw
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@Cogent_Cognizer
But, let me explain something here. I'm someone with a dissociative disorder, sometimes experiencing what is known in psychology as "depersonalization".
Yeah detachment, it's not always really what people would label a disorder. At least not a disorder of the self or that somethings wrong with you, there can be an imbalance within the physical body sure but if you know the truth about consciousness, the soul and how creation is put together your experiences would make a lot more sense.
There are the good and bad side of pretty much everything while in a dualistic environment, and while psychology is needed so that we can improve our understanding of things it also has it's bad side, that's the side that doesn't really know the mind and emotions.... and don't even know what the brain is and what the roles these play in the self experience. So as far as understanding the nature of why we experience certain things they are lost chasing rainbows, and so is their "treating" of symptoms attempting to medicate them.

Often times what people label psychological disorders and or mental illnesses are simply imbalances and the conditions of the organs and glands, clean those up and your operation and functions return as normal. We can get more into that side of it if you're interested but don't freak out over having out of body sensations, if you knew what you really are and that you are only inhabiting a physical body these are perfectly normal, your observation point is separate from the physical body although you are temporarily connected to it.
What you want is to get the physical body back in balance so you can "feel normal" again lol, this is simple of course, you just understand the nature of chemistry and the role foods play in the condition of your bodies health and wellness in your experiences through the physical body and focus on what it takes to renew them. I'll send you a link if this would interest you.
So, during such occurrences, the best way to describe what is happening is that the "self" disconnects from one's body. You essentially become an outside observer to one's own body.
Bingo my friend, and I will yet again reassure you not to think it's something strange going on, when you leave the physical body one day you're going to have the same out of body experience anyways. We can discuss how creation is put together, meaning the TRUE nature of consciousness and how the Creator isolates your experiences through forms.
This is very important that you consider what I'm going to say though, be a little open-minded here and everything should make sense for ya.
If you were to study NDE's for example, you would probably find some similarities in their encounters, especially when they exist the physical body and become the outside observer. The big difference of course is that you haven't fully left your body yet, you're more like oscillating from one state to another meaning your observation point sometimes withdraws/disconnects from the body almost a vehicle slipping out of gear...... basically your consciousness is alternating between your human body and your soul and in doing so you have the "OBE" experience.

The reason you can have these experiences is because your conscious being exists independent of the human body you are currently maintaining, believe it or not the soul is not restricted to just the perception and senses of the body. The reason you still know you are the self is because that physical body doesn't dictate your being even when it malfunctions, it's only role is to confine your experience to this world. And to do that you have to have a physical body that is compatible with the physical world.

There was a recent groundbreaking study in neuroscience about a year ago looking at patients with various disorders which caused involuntary movement or a feeling of a loss of free will, which seem to have pinpointed a region of the brain responsible for feeling "free will" or like one is in control of their body.
Lol yeah it's always a "region" of the brain right? always looking at the effects and not the cause. That's the problem with this field, it's the same problem we have within the scientific community and even in the AMA. That would be the misconceptions and falsity of materialism. They are always chasing the effect and never understanding the real origin of things.
The brain is just a component, it doesn't actually create anything it confines, isolates, conducts, limits ect ect just like electrical components on a circuit board. Sure you can hook up little instrumentations and observe activity within these components but they do not create the current of electricity they only restrict that flow while it is within that panel. We will always be able to detect activity within the brain, that's a no-brainer....because you are an energetic being, you are what powers and animates the body just like a power source. Once you leave the physical body that power source is gone from that limiter, it remains with you the self.

#3
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@Cogent_Cognizer
One must ask, what does this mean then? These patients still felt a sense of self as do I when I dissociate or seize(been having recent seizures as well where I feel not in control of course). In each case, I still feel alive, that I'm myself, but it's as though the self is an outside observer to my body during this time. 
Yeah you need to clean up my friend, you don't want to be having seizures because what's coming down the line is no good. Of course this has no real bearing on your actual conscious soul but you want to be well, you want your experiences through this body to be fun. Dementia, Alzheimer's, strokes are no fun!! you might have to get focused here for awhile I can help you in many ways if you were to be open about it. This all cab be fixed real easy, but you will have to be willing to reverse what is the causes of the problems.

What breaks down structure function of tissues, glands and organs?? forget the symptoms they are irrelevant. It's not the seizures that is not the cause of course.....everything in this universe is ruled by physics and chemistry including the physical body, cause and effect....so what breaks down cells and tissue? what side of chemistry is responsible for corrosion and deterioration? in relevance to the human body it's almost always the acid side of chemistry, acids. Where does that chemistry come from? obviously from what is absorbed or consumed by the body, what are absorbed and consumed? ahhh now we're getting to the causative factors!!

If one's connection to one's body is controlled by one's brain, then is the self not actually connected to the body otherwise?

Smart fella, you're on track here. Again having a defective body or parts is like dealing with your car or truck.. parts fail, things get dirty, things begin to malfunction but in reality even though it effects your driving it doesn't effect the one driving. The soul, which is what we call the self or consciousness is independent of any form. The reason you have a form currently is to isolate your experience, that's it. Once you leave this form you will still be conscious, and fully conscious indeed.
You are connected to the physical body though, once you entered the womb you became trapped, you developed with the development of the physical body. You were confined to the experience of the brain and nervous system, but since those are not your true origins you can also have the experiences that transcend the physical body. And since consciousness transcends the human form you will always be you no matter what form you take on. Even when you leave the physical form you still have yet another form, this would be called the subtle body or what people call a spirit.

And if not, why does the self still exist under such a circumstance? Is the entirety of the brain's neurochemistry what makes oneself the self? This can't be the case as those who lose such connections, like those with alzhemier's, still report to be themselves, albeit they lose functionality and connections in the brain.

Bingo, you're on it again. Good observations.
People who develop Alzheimer's, dementia or any kind of brain damage are subject to that interference while in that body, but it's not the deterioration of the "self"...the you, it's more like the self observing through a distorted image temporarily and of course once they leave that body they no longer have that distorted image. Even while experiencing that image in that body they can still have the sense of the self, because the self is still actually intact and fine and even though they are deteriorating on the outside they still know from the inner they are what they always were.
Let's see what you all think.

#4
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@Cogent_Cognizer
why did you copy a recent thread and make it seem like your own idea?

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Let's see what you all think.

I'm prepared to articulate and explain anything here, so if something comes off as confusing just ask. Only so much I can say within a few paragraphs so I'll wait for you to inquire.

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@Cogent_Cognizer
Self is both body and brain. It's not sexist, racist or anything but intelligent to notice that a lot of personality traits and even intellectual strengths are linked to the body. If you lack a body that is agile, your brain won't be agile until you fix the body (the your brain will begin to become agile if you keep practising but if you naturally weren't, you'll never get near the peak in that regard). Mall Cop Paul Blart is a movie, people like that simply do not exist.

As the body becomes adept at things, from the eyes to the nose etc., you will see a person's entire personality and even core interests alter when they get glasses, hearing aid, or any such thing. People are the body, no point denying it, that's all ignoring the actual brain by the way, which is physical entirely too.

This is why I never understand people who say AI can't become people, of course they can, we're primarily people because of physical neurons firing in our brain; that can be simulated on a complex bot in no time. Will they be corrupt people? Of course, they'll prefer either whoever they're programmed to prefer or whoever shows up later on and ticks boxes of 'usefulness'. They can bond deeply, much like pet cats do, but just like pet cats will never fully be in-tune with every minute emotion of the owner/friend.
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@RationalMadman
Looking over the first page, I don't see too much similarity between this thread and that one. It is a somewhat similar topic, but asking "who are you?" does not really mean the same thing as "What is the self?". People are responding with identities in that one whereas I'm more referring to a "self" as in the feeling of self and how it is different from the body. Of course, maybe this discussion is later in that thread, but I am not particularly interested in continuing to read it.


I did not plagiarize if that is what you're insinuating. People can think of similar topics and ideas though. I can assure you this is my own thoughts that may have been influenced by a myriad of life experiences though(so there is bound to be some similarity between what I said here and things in philosophy and other places)



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@EtrnlVw
Often times what people label psychological disorders and or mental illnesses are simply imbalances and the conditions of the organs and glands, clean those up and your operation and functions return as normal.
Indeed, I would agree. With these psychological "disorders" there is likely some imbalance in the brain that we are not aware of yet.


The reason you can have these experiences is because your conscious being exists independent of the human body you are currently maintaining, believe it or not the soul is not restricted to just the perception and senses of the body.
Yes, this is something I'm considering is a real possibility and may be reality.

As for the remainder about a creator/god, I'm not ready to come to that conclusion and consider is a bit premature. Other than that, I've not found anything particularly objectionable you suggested here, so I mostly agree or am neutral to what you've said.

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@Cogent_Cognizer
You clearly ignored my second reply.

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I was going to get to it. I just had other things I wanted to comment on or write first. 


The first two paragraphs in it I would have to disagree. I'm not sure there is much for me to reply to, given it's mostly just statements without reason.

The third paragraph I agree with.

While I may have not responded to your comment until now, you also had not responded to my OP either.

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"Statements without reason" is the entirety of your reply there as well as your OP.
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It was all a reply to your OP, it was a constructive take on it rather than a destructive one. Rebuttals are only one way to counter an argument, the other is building a better case that runs in opposition to the other. 
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Lets start with your first sentence "self is both body and brain"
Why?
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An important job of the brain is to maintain a model of the world so the body containing that brain can do all the things it needs to do in order to survive (and ultimately reproduce).  The self is that part of the brain's world-model that represents the individual.

When we perceive the world we do so by accessing information contained in our brain's world-model.   The effect of that is that in a sense it doesn't matter what is 'really' in the world - what we perceive is what is in our world-model.   We can presume that evolution has seen to it that our world-model is a useful approximation to the real world, but that alter the fact that we perceive what is 'in the model', not what is 'out there'.

So a human being is a bag of wet chemicals that maintains an internal model of the world with 'itself' as central element of that model. 

We can see that a human being has no access to its true nature - what we preceive is how we represent ourselves with the larger world-model maintained by our brains.

Bear in mind you never preceive reality - you preceive information contained in the brains world-model, even if that information is about your 'self'.  If your brain represents you as having 3 arms then you will percive youself as having 3 arms.  You will get problems if you do, because your model has diverged dangerously far from reality, but there is no theoretical reason you cannot preceive yourself ashaving 3 arms, or 2 heads or can fly.

If that does happen then what happened is that the information 'about you' in you brain has gone awry!

So we are bags of chemicals with a mechanism for maintaining a world-model and retrieving information from it (thanks to evolution!) How you seem to be is how you are modeled.

 

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@Cogent_Cognizer
As far as we can be sure, the concept of self is wholly contained within the mass.
As the mass and consequently the self are only assumptions.
Assumed dysfunction/imbalance is no more than what it is. No matter how it might seem to impact on internal data processing.



 

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Indeed, I would agree. With these psychological "disorders" there is likely some imbalance in the brain that we are not aware of yet.
No no, we are completely aware of it, I'm not talking about the run around psychology throws at you. The answers are much more simple than you would know but you might have to apply some things. What would create an imbalance within cells and tissues? again what obstructs the flow of normal operation? this goes straight into what you consume and the nature and chemistry involved, when you consume anything you are directly interfacing with chemistry, this in return either builds or breaks down the structure function of cells and tissue. Can I send you a link, would you mind that? if you're getting into seizures and things like that we need to pull you back from that, it doesn't get better if you don't change some things. I can help you with this pretty easily.
Yes, this is something I'm considering is a real possibility and may be reality.
Good man. Unusual at that.
As for the remainder about a creator/god, I'm not ready to come to that conclusion and consider is a bit premature.
I'm sure it would be for you, but let's hash it out. Why not inquire here and now while you got my attention? what things do you believe that you can't accept or consider?


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Sure, you can send me a link. I mean, I'm still going to keep an apointment with a neurologist to for my seizures though. 

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The self is ego.  * i  *.  This is a minimal brainer.
#19
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What will a neurologist do with your seizures in all honesty? I would never tell you not to of course, but again we're back at looking into symptoms, who cares we want to deal with the root cause. I can tell you how to reverse the problem, the cause. I'll send you link but I'd like to discuss it to make sure you are following the logic. Basically I'll send you a link to a video where you can have a link to the main channel. Each video will be relevant to your situation TBH so it doesn't really matter which one you watch.