many dems have used "don't monkey around" and "monkey wrench" different context or double standard?
DeSantis monkey this up
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Simply making the accusation makes the accusers look racist.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Different context.
It's hard to know whether DeSantis intended the comment to imply race, but either way he should have chosen his words better. Democrats are always quick to pile on at the slightest hint of racism.
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@Stronn
yeah that was a dumb mistake. I'll have to watch it again when I can, some of the defenders said he was talking about socialism and socialist ideas and then made that comment. If that's true then it should be obvious the topic or subject of his comment would be whatever he was talking about right before the comment.
The thing about the 'monkey this up' remark is that he could have phrased what he probably intended to say at least 50 different ways that would better and clearly state what he was saying, yet he still chose to go with THAT one. Even with the use of the word monkey, he could have easily phrased it a way to make it more natural and convey the message hw was trying to say, such as referring to a monkey wrench as the easiest example.
Its somewhat of an embarrassment to start the general election with, but there are way worse things that have been said by other people. It'll probably blow over in a week unless DeSantis is stupid enough to do it repeatedly (which is admittedly possible since he is a die-hard support of Trump)
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@Stronn
It's hard to know whether DeSantis intended the comment to imply race
No, it isn't hard to know. It's very obvious that he wasn't thinking about his opponent's race, and any attempt at claiming otherwise is bullshit armchair psychology.
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@spacetime
Monkey is just another of a great many words white skinned people cannot speak.
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@Greyparrot
he was probably thinking fuk it up but went with monkey, the previous would have been better than than latter.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Yah, white skinned people are allowed to say fuck still.
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@Stronn
Its not hard at all to know, all it requires is understanding the difference between a noun and a verb.
"That person is a monkey"
Is using it as a noun
"Look at how things have been monkey'd up"
Is using it as a verb. The history of monkey as a racist term is in using it as a noun, as a verb the word has always had wholly different connotations.
On another note, i wonder how that one WaPost journalist is gonna feel after writing a whole article about the racist usage of "monkey" upon realizing they spent 22 years and god knows how much money on education, just to still not be able to differentiate between nouns and verbs.
wew 😂 wew
The thing about the 'monkey this up' remark is that he could have phrased what he probably intended to say at least 50 different ways that would better and clearly state what he was saying, yet he still chose to go with THAT one
Ok? It wasnt being used as a noun, which is what the racist usage is... his quote was something like, the people of Florida need to not monkey this up and adopt socialist policies.
Clearly using it as a verb, clearly using it in reference to the heavy Socialist policies of Gillum. How is it DeSantis fault that you think "black people" upon hearing the word "monkey"? Seems like ur holding, your inability to seperate race from the thought process in critically examining speech, against DeSantis. Fail to see how thats on him 🤔
I disagree that this will blow over, this is gonna be harped on cause once Gillum starts talking about policy he puts his foot in his mouth. Watched the interview he had the other day regarding DeSantis comment, called it a "racist bullhorn" which, such stellar ability to differentiate between nouns and verbs.
Beyond that, what little policy was talked about, he backtracked on big time, particularly Medicare for all. Was like, "oh, we'd never do that as an individual state. It would raise costs, we'd get all the sick people flooding the healthcare system at once, and shortages on healthcare professionals.
Thats some major foot in the mouth, not just from backtracking, but every reason he listed why its not a good idea at a state level, equally applies at a federal level. He's a smooth talker, but lacks substance in intelligence in a major way. Any serious convo, he's gonna come across looking not too bright 🤔
So to avoid this, DeSantis being racist will be the necessary go to. This is how Dems have operated for awhile now. When policy points fail, as they often do, call the other person a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe. Even if it means looking like a fool who never learned the difference between a noun and a verb 😂😂
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@Buddamoose
It wasnt being used as a noun, which is what the racist usage is
Racial words or phrases used against a particular race don't necessarily lose their nefarious quality of referring to a race just because the word is used in a different form..... Just as an example, the word 'queer' can be used as a slur against LGBT people, yet if you walk into a persons house and say 'you got a lot of queer shit in here', the word still carries a bit of weight as a possible slur depending on the situation, even though its being used as an adjective rather than a noun....
Like DeSantis with the monkey remark, there are a lot of other words that could be used instead of 'queer' in the example I used, so a person who still decides to use the word 'queer' to describe something could be an underhanded insult, albeit depending on other circumstances.
How is it DeSantis fault that you think "black people" upon hearing the word "monkey"?
Last I checked it was people of DeSantis's political ideology who still try to attach the word 'monkey' to black people in an attempt to make them seem subhuman. Ex: Roseanne Barr
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@Buddamoose
Its not hard at all to know (that's what she said), all it requires is understanding the difference between a noun and a verb.
"That person is a monkey"Is using it as a noun"Look at how things have been monkey'd up"Is using it as a verb. The history of monkey as a racist term is in using it as a noun, as a verb the word has always had wholly different connotations.On another note, i wonder how that one WaPost journalist is gonna feel after writing a whole article about the racist usage of "monkey" upon realizing they spent 22 years and god knows how much money on education, just to still not be able to differentiate between nouns and verbs.wew 😂 wew
the brilliance of this is the simplicity, bravo!
that really throws a monkey wrench in the works doesn't it. anyway gotta take my car to the grease monkey. Perhaps I'll listen to the Monkeys on the way over, I do like old music.
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@Buddamoose
So if someone says that the NAACP monkeys things up, that's never racist because it's a verb? I don't buy it.Its not hard at all to know, all it requires is understanding the difference between a noun and a verb.
I don't, however, think DeSantis intended it to be racist, but you can't be 100% sure.
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@Stronn
I don't, however, think DeSantis intended it to be racist, but you can't be 100% sure.
The problem with racism is that there is no nuances with racism. If you are 1% racist, you are 100% racist.
Simply having 1% doubt is sufficient.
So if someone says that the NAACP monkeys things up, that's never racist because it's a verb
This is true, again, to "monkey up" something means to screw things up. Unless the NAACP is magically exempt from being able to screw things up, which is itself kinda racist, then you are still attributing generally negative connotations when used as a noun, to its usage as a verb, which has never predominantly at any point, held those negative connotationa.
To repeat:
"Look at those porch monkeys"
Is using it as a noun, usually in reference to blacks, ergo, racist.
"Look at how they are monkeying things up"
Is using it as a verb. It generally means to screw something up. And being able to screw things up is not exclusive to any one particular race, well unless you think it is, but that is itself highly racist 🤔
Its not anyone's fault but your own that you are failing to differentiate the connotations based upon its usage as a noun or a verb.
In breaking news, no, words cannot mean whatever you want them to mean, that's not how language works 😂😂
The purpose of language is to establish commonly understood meaning independent of the individuals involved in discourse. This is so those communicating do not have to minutely establish the individual meaning of every word in discourse.
Doing what you are doing, is abandoning that necessity to constructive and efficient discourse. By holding that "monkeying up" something is racist, ignores the necessary application of both the differentiation between nouns and verbs, but ignores the necessity of applying common connotative contexts in the use of those words. Its great that you want words to mean whatever you want them to, but like i said, that's not how this works 🤔
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@Stronn
Obviously if a black skin type person said it you would think it's just fine. It's only when someone has a white skin birth defect that the actual meaning of the word changes.So if someone says that the NAACP monkeys things up, that's never racist because it's a verb? I don't buy it.
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@Greyparrot
This video is hilarious, an excerpt,
"You see, leftists like to call republicans racist during election times, and the run up to election times, and after election times...because otherwise, they'd have to tell you how they plan on stealing your money to buy voters with it. And thats not a good campaign slogan, so... you're racist. To see this strategy in action you need only tune in to the Florida gubernatorial race between Democrat Andrew Gillum, a Socialist black man who wants to take your money and buy votes with it and Republican Ron Desantis. Democrats declared DeSantis racist within 12 hours of his becoming the official candidate because DeSantis used the word "monkey." Apparently Democrats think black people are like monkeys, so when a republican says the word monkey, they feel he is racist, because monkeys remind democrats of black people... so... you're racist..."
LMAO
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@Stronn
They seem to be stuck on the belief that we are allegedly claiming "'monkey things up' is a racist term", whereas we're actually just arguing that 'monkey things up' in the context DeSantis used it could be seen as racially insensitive.So if someone says that the NAACP monkeys things up, that's never racist because it's a verb? I don't buy it.
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@Imabench
What is the exact proper shade of skin that allows the words you say to mirror the dictionary meaning?
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@Buddamoose
that was epic
enjoy the election season.....racist.
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@Imabench
They seem to be stuck on the belief that we are allegedly claiming "'monkey things up' is a racist term", whereas we're actually just arguing that 'monkey things up' in the context DeSantis used it could be seen as racially insensitive.
and its already been pointed out that the context being appealed to is nonexistent, and the only way it could be viewed as racially insensitive, is if the first thought you have upon hearing the word "monkey" is "black people." Again, when used as a verb, the word "monkey" has always near exclusively had the meaning of screwing things up. "to throw a monkey wrench" in things would be communicating a similar sentiment. And when the phrase is, "the last thing voters need to do is monkey things up by adopting socialist policies" it makes literally zero sense to presume racism or racial insensitivity, as the word has never predominantly held a racial meaning when used as a verb.
That is, unless you already think, "black people" when you hear the word "monkey" at which case, you will likely view it as racially insensitive. But thats not the fault of anyone but yourself. And the same goes for not being able to differentiate between a noun and a verb in turn, its only your fault at that point,
Its not anyones fault that the more you argue the point that it could be racist, the more you show that you are actually racist yourself, and have to perform the mental gymnastics of trying to justify that, "oh the context totally could have meant black people" when the context was referring to the policies of the candidate, not the person themself, or the color of their skin. Gillum being black is incidental to him holding the views that he does. And unless you are going to posit that you can't criticize minorities for their views, which would be itself pretty fucking racist, then you have zero ground whatsoever to hold what DeSantis said as racist, or even racially insensitive, which is just trying to throw glitter on the pile of shit your trying to sell and acting like its not the same pile of shit you were just holding.
That little mental gymnastic you do where basically you just repeat "Its not racist, also, you must be racist" but with more fanciful language just shows that you're not actually reading the arguments, and are just trying to score points in a game nobody is participating in.
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@Buddamoose
Apparently this is the "proper" shade of birth skin where you can use the word monkey as it appears in the dictionary.
Also, lets examine the two terms you differentiated.
>Racist
>Racial Insensitivity
now, here are some potential options of what racial insensitivity may mean, surprisingly, the term isnt really clearly defined. Which is usually a sign that a term is rubbish. But
1) racial insensitivity means a person is being racist, but they dont mean to be
2) racial insenstivitiy means a person isn't being racist, but somebody perceives that they are being racist
3) racial insensitivity means a person is being inconsiderate to the racial connotations a certain word or phrase typically has.(this is one of the more common definitions of racial insenstivity. But like i said, there really isn't a clear definition, because it tends to change in meaning based upon whiever meaning is most convenient to painting someone as being racist and/or wrong in their speech.
The first can't be true here, because DeSantis was clearly not being racist, as you just admitted by, "we're not saying its racist, we're saying its racially insensitive."
The second doesnt make any sense, because the meaning of language is not determined by an individuals perception, its determined independent of the individuals perceiving it, and also in part independent of the person speaking. "I feel thats racist" doesnt make it so, and nor does that mean somebody has done anything wrong in saying what they have.
the third makes no sense either, because the term, "to monkey things up" has never predominantly held racial connotations, and pretty much exclusively has held non racial connotations in its use.
Whichever way you pick, one still is forced to come to the conclusion that what DeSantis said was not at all wrong, or insensitive to anything that has relevance in linguistics, or isn't being insensitive at all. That is, unless when you hear the word "monkey" you think "black people" regardless of whatever connotation or part of speech(noun, verb, adjective, preposition, etc.) is being used. In which case, thats pretty racist dude...
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@Imabench
why dont you illustrate why its mental gymnastics Bench? Obviously it shouldnt be that hard if thats really whats going on. I certainly gave plenty of substantiation for why what you are trying to say makes very little sense. And as clearly can be seen by my recent post, I'm actually paying pretty close attention to your arguments.That little mental gymnastic you do where basically you just repeat "Its not racist, also, you must be racist"
So, heres what you have to cover
1) Why "monkey things up" has racist connotations when the term when used in that manner, that being as a verb, has never predominantly held racial connotations, and near exclusively has held non racial connotations.
2) What definition of racial insensitivity you are using, but careful, because whichever one of the common uses you pick, still ends up with your argument making no sense
3) why nouns and verbs are not different, and the meaning of words doesnt change based upon their usage as either one.
Else, all you have thus far is, "naw uh, im not doing mental gymnastics, you are". Btw,
and using fanciful languagelmao, im not even using language thats all that fanciful or complex bench. For christ sakes, i used "pile of shit" in a metaphor. If you think i'm using fanciful language, i shudder to think how fanciful the language in High School level grammar classes is to you, cause thats the level i'm speaking at.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
This person also does not have the politically proper shade of birth skin.