No go areas in the UK

Author: keithprosser

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#151
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Ghassanid Kingdom accepted the council of Chalcedon, so they were indeed Orthodox. They would have honored Paul.


One of the amazing things about Paul is that before his road to Damascus experience where he witnessed the riisen Lord, he was a persecuter of the Christians, and very zealously so.

#152
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@keithprosser

Why don't you do some research and find out why the term 'moderate' is an issue in the Muslim world?

 So on the one hand you are asking ME why it is that I "get so worked up" about the term "moderate muslims" and "moderate islam" (when I don't, but muslims do) and on the other, you are now admitting that it is an issue in the muslims world . I know it is a big issue in the muslims world you clown, this is what I have been trying to get through to you, but you keep insisting on using the term as if it is something in reality, IT ISN'T!!!. And I have "researched" it and hundreds of thousands of MUSLIMS simply hate the fkn terms "moderate muslim and moderate islam". they find it "divisive and insulting and abhorrent". But what these MUSLIMS think simply will not  bother a left wing apologist  such as yourself will it. No. you will just ignore what these MUSLIMS really think of this "abusive and divise" term "invented by the west" and act as if they never ever had an opinion concerning their own identity. This is liberals and apologists all over, they want to stamp THEIR left wing libtard agenda and opinion on everything. Jess Phillips MP tried this outside a school in Birmingham and got called an "islamophobe" for her trouble.

Yes she tried to tell a muslim what it was to be muslim, the fkn bare faced nerve of the woman, and YOU posser, are exactly the same as this fkn trollop MP. And they want her out of office now too.

It is left wing apologist such as yourself that love to use these fluffy words or simply invent new words to play down the fact that Islam is not compatible with the west and never will be..  And you see from the link how upsetting the term is to MUSLIMS and why.  so fk you again prosser!

OOOh look from your favorite and much quoted by you newspaper.

“I see it as a criticism,” one woman in Luton told me. “You are giving me this label based on how I look and how I dress.” Her male friend said he found the word “offensive”, adding: “Are you saying I’m only 50% Muslim? When someone says to me ‘you’re moderate’ it suggests to me they’re saying ‘you’re not fully Muslim’.”https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/16/moderate-muslim-devout-liberal-religion

Do you see the divisiveness that these MUSLIMS feel prosser?  Or are you going to  come over all Jess PHillips on them and tell them they don't know what it is or means to be muslim.


Anyway, you must be extremely pleased - and relieved - to have found something that can be construed as almost justifying saying that there are no-go areas and that 'great swaths of the uk' have been overtaken by muslims.

There are plenty more where those few examples come from.


I think it also exemplifies why I started a thread 'Why is Islam backward' and my link to an excellent article on why the prospects of reforming islam are poor at this time.

Yes an article that seems to go all the way in supporting what I say, not you. That backfired on you too didn't it? and that is why you deserted the thread, your own thread;  just like your headline that you believed was your hit piece and the silver bullet, but that too wasn't a silver bullet either, WAS IT!. That teacher,as I have proven, was forced from his job after death threats from muslims NOT CHRISTIANS and after a warning ( an Osman Warning) from the police concerning his safety.

here you are, have another read!!!!!


Andrew Moffat says his lessons were not accepted by some Muslim parents, adding: "You can't teach someone to be gay"

"The teacher at the centre of the row over LGBT lessons has told Sky News he received a death threat and has been given advice from police about how he travels to and from school.

Andrew Moffat, the assistant head teacher at Parkfield Community School in Birmingham, wrote the No Outsiders programme that is used to teach diversity and equality in some schools."
Protests by mainly Muslim parents who object to their children learning about same-sex relationships have now spread from Parkfield to other schools in Birmingham and beyond".





on why the prospects of reforming islam are poor at this time.

They are not poor you deceitful fkr, they are NON EXISTENT! and always will be and I have explained to you many times why Islam cannot be reformed and YOUR article supports what I have said. You should have read YOUR article much more closely, as you should have "researched" properly why it was  that teacher Andrew Moffat was forced to resign from his teaching post that he loved and had dedicated his life to.




 So just for once in your sad sorry miserable cowardly life, stand up and face this question with, honour, honesty and a little bit of integrity. 

Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?



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#153
keithprosser
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@Stephen
Yes an article that seems to go all the way in supporting what I say, not you.
I read it thoroughly before I linked to it, and I re-read it just now.  I think it reflects my thinking about this issue very well.  I think you must have a very wrong idea of what my position is!  (In fact I know you do, because you keep calling me an Islamic apologist!).

What is it that you think I am saying?  I certainly haven't avocated capitulation nor even appeasement or complacency - but I often think you must believe I crave being a doormat for irrational fanatics.

I note that Parkfield school has not 'caved in'.   I am not aware of the details of any compromise and perhaps there will be more rumblings, but the fanatics have lost.   It is immoderate Islam that is under threat, not 'Britishness'.  That will certainly produce more problems as conserative Muslims strive to hang on, but I think the only way they can win is if the right succeeds in fomenting and ratcheting up anti-islamic and anti-Muslim sentiment. 

At least I hope so, as we can scarce afford to deport Moeen Ali or Abdul Rashid until after we have won the world cup.
#154
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@Stephen
You are such an angry little thing aren't you?
#155
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@keithprosser
 (In fact I know you do, because you keep calling me an Islamic apologist!).

That is about the only thing - on this thread - that you have understood correctly. But that shouldn't be hard considering it is the truth.

I note that Parkfield school has not 'caved in'.  

Then you haven't been keeping up,

we can scarce afford to deport Moeen Ali or Abdul Rashid until after we have won the world cup.

Careful now, you may be accused of being patriotic. Your left wing, libtard apologetic friends won't have that, will they.

“I see it as a criticism,” one woman in Luton told me. “You are giving me this label based on how I look and how I dress.” Her male friend said he found the word “offensive”, adding: “Are you saying I’m only 50% Muslim? When someone says to me ‘you’re moderate’ it suggests to me they’re saying ‘you’re not fully Muslim’.”https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/16/moderate-muslim-devout-liberal-religion

Do you see the divisiveness that these MUSLIMS feel prosser?  Or are you going to  come over all Jess PHillips on them and tell them they don't know what it is or means to be muslim.







Oh , and you must have missed it, for the billionth time>>
 



Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?



#156
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@Stephen
Hey no balls.
What are you doing to roll back  the takeover of Savile Town
bwuahahahahahaha
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#157
keithprosser
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I think I posted that link previously... if not to that article then certainly to the associated radio 4 documentary; I remember you saying that you refused to listen to it.

"Sarfraz Manzoor is a moderate Muslim but wonders if he is an oddity. Is the idea of the silent moderate Muslim majority a myth or reality?"









#158
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@Mopac
I'm sorry Yassine, you are badly informed. Saint Luke wrote the Acts of tbe Apostles, not Paul. Paul did not corrupt the faith as you falsely believe. We know what we believe, and heretics are not arbitrarily identified. They are identified as such because they contradict the teachings of the Apostles, who Jesus Christ trusted with the Church that the gates of hell will not overcome. We know where these heresies originate.
- Even if we suppose Luke wrote Acts, he has never met either Paul or Peter. In fact, he contradicts Paul's own accounts. & that's the thing, no one of these characters has proof or testimony through unbroken chains to corroborate their supposed accounts & claims. Why are the sources of such foundational doctrine so unreliable & always written in implicit ambiguous text?? We believe in Twheed, a doctrine that's asserted virtually on every page of the Quran.


We do not worship a man as God, Yassine. If this was the case, why would Saint Paul himself write, 

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man"

The Apostles surely vetted Paul. He was certainly Chrismated by them. He did not corrupt the faith.

As I said, if you don't believe every bishop can be traced back to the apostles, ask one of them, not me. They will show you their credentials.
- Then, show me. But I will tell you, you can't, because it doesn't exist.


Ghassanid Kingdom accepted the council of Chalcedon, so they were indeed Orthodox. They would have honored Paul.
- Ghassan had many sects... by the 6th century, most Christians in the Middle East did indeed believe in the divinity of Jesus (pbuh). Many other didn't. 


One of the amazing things about Paul is that before his road to Damascus experience where he witnessed the riisen Lord, he was a persecuter of the Christians, and very zealously so.
- Supposedly, & then he rejected the Law. The thing is, many of these 'heretical' or 'gnostic' gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, & the Gospel of Judas) agree with the Islamic account of Jesus & Mary (pbut), yet later on rejected by the Church in favor of other gospels ascribing some level of divinity onto Jesus.
#159
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@disgusted
You are such an angry little thing aren't you?
- He iiiiis...

#160
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@Stephen
Speaking of specsavers
What are you doing to roll back  the takeover of Savile Town
#161
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@keithprosser
I note that Parkfield school has not 'caved in'.  
Always well behind aren't you. and you have the brass neck to tell me to do research.

Primary school which has had parents protest outside will have updated LGBT lessons in September






Don't you have a Specsavers near you? You keep missing this>>

Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?




#162
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- Even if we suppose Luke wrote Acts, he has never met either Paul or Peter. In fact, he contradicts Paul's own accounts. & that's the thing, no one of these characters has proof or testimony through unbroken chains to corroborate their supposed accounts & claims. Why are the sources of such foundational doctrine so unreliable & always written in implicit ambiguous text?? We believe in Twheed, a doctrine that's asserted virtually on every page of the Quran.


Again you are showing your ignorance of our religion, Yassine. Luke did personally know Paul, he traveled around with him for 2 years.

We certainly believe that God is One and Indivisible.


- Then, show me. But I will tell you, you can't, because it doesn't exist.


From the earliest days of the church, apostolic succession was seen as a mark of the true church. I will give you the same answer, ask a Bishop and they will show you their credentials. Apostolic succession certainly is a reality, and my directing you on how you can find out for yourself is not at all evidence against what I am claiming.

- Ghassan had many sects... by the 6th century, most Christians in the Middle East did indeed believe in the divinity of Jesus (pbuh). Many other didn't.
Well, their beliefs contradict The Apostlles, The Church Fathers, and The Church itself. Denying the divinity of Jesus simply isn't orthodox. 


- Supposedly, & then he rejected the Law. The thing is, many of these 'heretical' or 'gnostic' gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, & the Gospel of Judas) agree with the Islamic account of Jesus & Mary (pbut), yet later on rejected by the Church in favor of other gospels ascribing some level of divinity onto Jesus.



They were rejected because we know where they came from. They were not written by the church.

I will of course point out that I believe Mohammed was a false prophet.
#163
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@keithprosser
I think I posted that link previously

No. I posted it, on another thread when we were discussing the same subject of what is a "moderate muslim".  You didn't explain then as you haven't now.
 But I do sincerely wish it had have been you. That would have been another link that you posted that actually support my argument and not your own.

Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?

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@Stephen
1.5 billion Muslims trying to kill little Stevie wonder. You must run like the wind.
The people in the video have killed how many people?
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#165
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@Stephen
I think what you're getting at is that 'Moderate' is not the same as 'Liberal or 'Progressive'!

That is, I think, true.  I think its very likely that conditions and events - local and global -  have resulted in many British muslims adopting a more 'narrow and conservative' reading of Islam than even a generation or so ago. 

The question is do we want British muslims to be more liberal or do we want them not here at all?    I think that the latter is not only odious it is impossible!   We have no choice but to attempt the former, no matter how difficult it seems.

It gets even harder with people like Stephen demonising Islam and Muslims at every opportunity!   I think we do need to discuss the social impact of Islam, but there's more to debate than posting videos selected to show muslims in a bad light.  There are loads of other places to go for that sort of stuff.
 

#166
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@keithprosser
I think what you're getting at is that 'Moderate' is not the same as 'Liberal or 'Progressive'!

No, what I am getting at is that leftwing libtard apologists like yourself keep coming up with these terms and descriptions that even muslims do not like or appreciate and find very offensive and do not even recognise!!.. Yet this doesn't stop YOU  be telling THEM different and that they do not know what it means to be muslim or what a muslim actually is. And now you have the bollocks to tell me what it is "you think I am getting at". Stop it, my ribs are fkn aching.

That is, I think, true.  I think its very likely that conditions and events - local and global -  have resulted in many British muslims adopting a more 'narrow and conservative' reading of Islam than even a generation or so ago.  

 Have they? Well now let me see your evidence for your  opinion and what you "think". because the video tells me different, is all you have to do is prove me and them - the muslims in the video -  wrong. are you telling these muslims that they don't know what it is they are saying!? watch it again, here > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiiGkB6wp4A&t=14s

The question is do we want British muslims to be more liberal or do we want them not here at all? 

Is it?  And why is that the question? I think you should 'think a little deeper than that.
   I think that the latter is not only odious it is impossible! 
Yes impossible, to say odious is an opinion.


  We have no choice but to attempt the former, no matter how difficult it seems.

And then lets start with your own suggestions. I am sick of giving you mine just for you to ignore them, even though you have asked for them.

It gets even harder with people like Stephen demonising Islam and Muslims at every opportunity! 

Who are you talking to? You addressed the post to me directly, now your talking in the second person. What is the matter with you prosser.


You are more that welcome to present islam in a glorious and good light; I have asked you to do so many,many times and you haven't done so thus far. I ask you again, to do so.

I think we do need to discuss the social impact of Islam,

Yes we do. But you  simply want to close  down the truth of the matter. You won't have a word said against Islam that is stamping its mark all over Europe.



 but there's more to debate than posting videos selected to show muslims in a bad light.

 There is, But when I make a statement,  I like to back it up. How do you suggest I do this without apologist like you calling me "racist and bigoted and you favourite newly invented word "islamophobic"?

You are on the losing end of a real argument, one that you liberal apologist bastards thought you could win. You can't and you haven't and won't.

Listen Prosser. I don't blame MUSLIMS for  doing what they are doing. They will do what it takes for themselves and their barbaric ideology to survive. I blame absolute bastards like you for refusing to see what  MUSLIMS are doing to preserve their ideology. so fk you gain prosser!.....

 and do not forget this>>


Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?


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#167
keithprosser
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You addressed the post to me directly, now your talking in the second person. What is the matter with you prosser.
3rd person.  I was going to change it to 'you, Stephen' but it's only a forum post which will end up getting read by 3 people tops so I couldn't be arsed.

Listen Prosser. I don't blame MUSLIMS for  doing what they doing. They will do what it takes for themselves and their barbaric ideology to survive. I blame absolute bastards like you for refusing to see what  MUSLIMS are doing to preserve their ideology. so fk you gain prosser!.....
It would help your cause of not being taken as a bigot if you stopped referring to your opponents as 'absolute bastards'!

The details are not clear, but something is pushing muslims - especially younger muslims - into adopting conservative interpretations of Islam.  It is as if young Americans were increasingly embracing Evangelical undamentalist Christianity - (which may or may not be the case, but that's for another time).

I don't see any up-side to that shift in attitudes!   The big question is why are muslims are embracing conservative islam rather than its progressive forms.   Before you, Stephen, start on there being no conservative or liberal forms of Islam I will point out that conservative Islam - with its meticulous observance of the letter of the qu'ran and hadith - is a relatively recent development.   It can been traced to writers such as al Wahhab and Sayyid Qutb.
It is my view Islam has no ideology until it is interpreted.   Nor can religion be considered in isolation form politics and economics.  The reasons

Khuram Shazad Butt, Rachid Redouane and Youssef Zaghba perpetrated the london bridge attack can't be reduced to the presence of a verse in the koran.

Is pointing that out Islamic apologetics or bleeding heart liberalism?  Or is it trying to be objective because that is the best way to understand and solve a problem?
 



#168
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The details are not clear, but something is pushing muslims - especially younger muslims - into adopting conservative interpretations of Islam. 
That's to be expected generally speaking, but normally not particularly among youth.  Considering that they live in an environment hostile to actual Islamic doctrine, conservatism proves a logical necessity.
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@Stephen
Listen Prosser. I don't blame MUSLIMS for  doing what they are doing. They will do what it takes for themselves and their barbaric ideology to survive. I blame absolute bastards like you for refusing to see what  MUSLIMS are doing to preserve their ideology. so fk you gain prosser!.....
Here we go little Stevie wonder.
What are Muslims doing that your mentally unstable hatred gets you so worked up about?


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#170
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@Snoopy
That's to be expected generally speaking, but not particularly among youth.  Considering that they live in an environment hostile to actual Islamic doctrine, conservatism proves a logical necessity.
Perhaps if you wrote at slightly more length I'd get your meaning.   What is your reasoning?


#171
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@keithprosser
I found myself curious that you appropriated what can be presumed a political ideology (conservatism) fitting for Islam in the UK, whilst among evangelical Christianity in the United States you mentioned fundamentalism which is essentially a slightly more liberal philosophy conforming with orthodoxy, but with different traditions and not "within the church".
#172
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@keithprosser



The details are not clear, but something is pushing muslims - especially younger muslims - into adopting conservative interpretations of Islam.

Yes, its called Islam as taught in the Quran and the Hadith and the Surah.. Just Islam, not "moderate" or any other "type" of Islam, just Islam, as In just Muslim

Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?


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@Stephen
1.5 billion with a blood lust for your head and you're still alive. The blood lust must be the moderate kind.
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#174
keithprosser
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@Snoopy
I found myself curious that you found what can be presumed a political ideology (conservatism) fitting for Islam, whilst among evangelical Christianity in the United States you mentioned fundamentalism which is essentially a slightly more liberal reading conforming with orthodoxy, but with different traditions and not "within the church".
Finding appropriate words is not easy when someone is being deliberately awkward about it!   I am not sure conseratism and liberalism are only applicable in a political context - they can work in a religion context too.  One can be deliberately obstructive and quibble - it depends on people's attitude towards the discussion.

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@keithprosser
Why the distinction?  Conservatism is practical, and fundamentalism is theological. 
Keith: The details are not clear, but something is pushing muslims - especially younger muslims - into adopting conservative interpretations of Islam. 

Snoopy: That's to be expected generally speaking, but normally not particularly among youth.  Considering that they live in an environment hostile to actual Islamic doctrine, conservatism proves a logical necessity.

#176
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@Stephen
"This is a muslim area move away. Move away now , don't come back. This is a muslim area, your not allowed here"...

All 1.5 billion said that, that's unreal

#177
Stephen
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@keithprosser
Listen to these lovely, tolerant,integrated and diverse muslims, protecting "their " pissing ground.

To a white couple.

"This is a muslim area move away. Move away now , don't come back. This is a muslim area, your not allowed here"


To a white woman

"You cannot dress like that in a Muslim area".




To a homosexual

"Your a gay , get out of here, get out of here you filthy fag"


Yes all very "moderate" and tolerant.

#178
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@Ramshutu
Fact: Muslims grow beards
Not wanting to enter a neighbourhood because you feel threatened by brown people having the audacity to sit around and be all brown without apologizing does not make it a no go zone.
Beards, Burkas, Battlestar Galactica

#179
Stephen
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@keithprosser
It would help your cause of not being taken as a bigot if you stopped referring to your opponents as 'absolute bastards'!

When the looney left wing apologist such as yourself stop bastardising everything they don't agree with or shows them for what they really  are, then maybe I   will . Until then, you still haven't answered this question:


Do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslims? YES OR NO?

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#180
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@Stephen
We both know that is like asking if I have stopped beating my wife.  You will get tired of asking long before I get tired of not answering - after all, not answering takes no effort at all!

The issue is not whether they are 'moderate' but what are the forces shaping attitudes within and between Muslims and non-Muslims.  My target is a situation where -this is only an example - a woman can walk down any street anywhere in Britain wearing a burqa or a mini-skirt and nobody minds.

I am not happy at all that a sizeble chunk of the british population is getting sucked into a form of religion that is homophobic and misogynistic.  You,Stephen, don't accept that Islam can be anything but homophoic and misogynistic, but I think religions depend entirely on interpretation and there are geo-political reasons why it is backward-looking (not progressive) forms of Islam that have gained traction over the last few decades, not just in the UK but worldwide.   I don't idealise the Muslim community - we are talking compromise, not appeasement or capitualtion by either side.

I get the impression Stephen wants a world divided into hermetically sealed compartments,one for each race and religion.   Even if that was desirable it is not possible.  The UK is going to be multi-ethnic and multi-faith forever - we better get used to it!