Measure of a Man

Author: 3RU7AL

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#1
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Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?

What is a person exactly?

What is the basis of human rights?

Here is an interesting logical dissection of these and other questions viewed through the scope of TNG. [LINK]
#2
keithprosser
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@3RU7AL
The vid is a bit lawyer-oriented, not philosophy based, but the issue is a good one!
Historically, probably only high status adult males of a given ethnicity could be confident they had full rights.  
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@keithprosser
The vid is a bit lawyer-oriented, not philosophy based, but the issue is a good one!
Historically, probably only high status adult males of a given ethnicity could be confident they had full rights.  
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all wealthy land owning white men over the age of 35 are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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#4
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@keithprosser
...not philosophy based...
Religion, Politics, and Law are all different names for Philosophy.

11 days later

#5
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@3RU7AL
When the technocratic communist society seizes power, 3RU7AL will be down for it!


Until the machine decides that as an obsolete shovel, he must be broken down into base components and reconfigured for the good of the whole.
#6
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Man is created in God's image. 
This is the basis of human rights.


Anything the godless rationalize out of convenience to take the place of this will likely be reasoned away at a later date as circumstances make the very concept of human dignity a burden unbearable to progressive society.


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#7
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Man is created in God's image. 
This is the basis of human rights.
Which specific rights follow logically from this axiom?
#8
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@3RU7AL
I would say the basis of human rights is compassion, which is an aspect of empathy.
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Well for one, it distinguishes us from complicated sorting machines and gives the human a special innate dignity.
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@keithprosser
Compassion and empathy in practice are arbitrary because they are emotions.

True love, or charity is not an emotion, though it is compassionate. If we think about how much charity ee have received undeservingly, it may make someone empathetic towards others who are immature in their love or full of fault.

So we may show "charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."
#11
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@3RU7AL
Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?
Depends if the person is willing to sacrifice their right (many are in my opinion - depending on what they get in return). It should never be taken away against ones will / deceptively taken away. If humanity must survive off people's misery, than humanity is currently sick and shouldn't whine when bad things happen.

What is a person exactly?
A person is an individual that can define themselves from there. 

What is the basis of human rights?
Allow humanity to live this life how they please within the structures of this reality. 
#12
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@3RU7AL
Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?
If you value utilitarianism then yes but if you don't probably not. 
What is a person exactly?
I don't know of a distinction that isn't arbitrary since we all from existing matter that isn't sentient so we are not really special. 
What is the basis of human rights?
I guess humans should have equal treatment so we make laws based on that. 
Here is an interesting logical dissection of these and other questions viewed through the scope of TNG. [LINK]
Watched it. LegalEagle is cool. Basically pretty much gives the argument under the best definition of person-hood that you would have to put artificial intelligence as a person. I found a problem with the information. Star Trek fictional universe have yet to find an answer to the soul. They are assuming it exists because if it was contention-able the man would have added that for the list of requirements of being a person. Even with their knowledge of that universe they still weren't able to stop artificial intelligence from being a human.
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#13
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@Mopac
Well for one, it distinguishes us from complicated sorting machines and gives the human a special innate dignity.
Which specific rights follow logically from this axiom?
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#14
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@TheRealNihilist
Star Trek fictional universe have yet to find an answer to the soul.
Well, without a soul-detector or soul-o-meter, the robot could claim they had a soul just as easily as the human could.
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@3RU7AL
Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?
In the real world, it's rarely one person's rights.  What gets sacrificed are entire armies, cities and peoples.

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@3RU7AL
Well, without a soul-detector or soul-o-meter, the robot could claim they had a soul just as easily as the human could.
That is if I agree we even have souls. I don't but yes you are right that artificial intelligence can simply claim they had a soul just like a human. 
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@3RU7AL
That depends entirely on whether or not you love God, because loving mankind is like loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
If you love God, would you defile His image?






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@Mopac
That depends entirely on whether or not you love God, because loving mankind is like loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
If you love God, would you defile His image?
Let's say, hypothetically that I love some sort of god...

Which specific rights follow logically from this axiom?
#19
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@3RU7AL
Loving a god is not enough.

There is One True God.

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.



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@keithprosser
Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?
In the real world, it's rarely one person's rights.  What gets sacrificed are entire armies, cities and peoples.
Individual rights get trampled every day.  They just don't make splashy headlines.
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#21
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@Mopac
Loving a god is not enough.

There is One True God.

The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
So, presumably you do love the one true god and all that.

And yet you don't believe that undocumented foreigners should be treated as citizens, even though "the bible" suggests otherwise. [LINK]

Which specific rights follow logically from this (LOVE THE ONE TRUE GOD) axiom?
#22
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@3RU7AL
Should one person's rights be sacrificed for the potential benefit of humanity?
"rights" human creation via king or government.

What is a person exactly?
Mind game creation similar to "rights".

What is the basis of human rights?
Empathy and access to rational, logical common sense ergo the golden rule.

The Golden Rule --do unto others as you would have them doonto you---- has
a common variation in many countries and religions. I wondered if there
were any other rules with such commonality e.g,


Is there a silver rule also? "Seek fair and just resolution with
compassion and empathy for those who violate the laws and moral codes of
humanity or its distinct tribes. "

Perhaps a wooden rule? Forgiveness by God is instantaneous, forgiveness
by humans takes time.

Or the bone rule? Eye for eye and toothe for a tooth. [im not sure if
any animals other than humans practice this concept]

Molecular rule? "Share not with your cousin what you would not have
them share with you."

Quantum rule? "Know that the uncertainty of mind, being common to all
humans, does not necessitate chaos."

Space-time Rule? ---Pee-Here-Now is rendition of Ram Dass’sBe Here Now

#23
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@TheRealNihilist
That is if I agree we even have souls.
Biological = soul ergo biological/soul are synonyms.

The truth { metaphysical-1 } exists for those who seek it.


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#24
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@mustardness
What is the basis of human rights?
Empathy and access to rational, logical common sense ergo the golden rule.
This sounds reasonable.
#25
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@3RU7AL
It certainly puts the issue away from rights as a form of entitlement to "all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Of course we are to love foreigners, but foreigners in those times were no more Hebrews than those living outside of them were. They certainly were not allowed to take part in the Mosaic religion without first becoming Israelites. 

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@Mopac
Of course we are to love foreigners, but foreigners in those times were no more Hebrews than those living outside of them were.
Are you suggesting that a 2000 year old book might be outdated and may not apply to the complexities of modern problems?

Does "loving foreigners" mean incarcerating them (including children), sometimes for years, sending them to trial without an advocate and then deporting them?
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@3RU7AL
I have nothing to do with governmental policies.

An illegal immigrant is committing a crime. It's very simple. They need to go through the proper process like anyone else. If there is something wrong with the process, then maybe people should change the process.

If they don't go through the proper process, they shouldn't be surprised if they get punished for a crime.

Allowing illegal immigrants to vote is stupid, as is allowing the representative influence in an area to be boosted by illegal immigrants. This is not a human rights issue so much as it is a government taking logical steps to maintain its integrity.

I have nothing to do with government policies.
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#28
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@Mopac
I have nothing to do with governmental policies.
So I guess you're "washing your hands"? [LINK]
#29
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There is nothing to wash from my hands.

#30
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'The graveyard of the Earth': inside City 40, Russia's deadly nuclear secret

..."The city’s residents know the truth, however: that their water is contaminated, their mushrooms and berries are poisoned, and their children may be sick. Ozersk and the surrounding region is one of the most contaminated places on the planet, referred to by some as the “graveyard of the Earth”."...