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@secularmerlin
If you are the arbiter, why does it matter how you grant "rights"?
Abortion
Posts
Total:
139
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@Snoopy
We are all that arbiter and it does not matter objectively. It does however matter subjectively, especially for those who stand to gain from having these rights.
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@TheRealNihilist
You are too stupid to continue talking to.
It was pretty big year for fashion
A lousy year for rock and roll
The people gave their blessing to crimes of passion
It was a dark, dark night of the collective soul
And I was somewhere out on riverside by the El Royale hotel
When a stranger appeared in a cloud of smoke
I thought I knew him all too well
He said now that I have your attention
I got something I wanna say
You may not wanna hear it,
I'm gonna tell it to you anyway
You know I've always liked you boy
Cause you were not afraid of me
Things are gonna get mighty rough here in Gomorrah-by-the-sea
Ya said it's just like home
It's so damn hot I can't stand it
My fine seersucker suit is all soaking wet
And the hills are burning
And the wind is raging
And the clock strikes midnight in the garden of Allah
In the Garden of Allah
Nice car
Ah, I love those Bavarians, So meticulous
Y'know, I remember when things were a lot more fun around here
When good was good and evil was evil
Before things got so fuzzy
I was once a golden boy like you
And I was summoned to the halls of power in the heavenly courts
And I dined with the deities who looked upon me with favor
For my talents, my creativity
And we sat beneath the palms
In the warm afternoons and drank the wine
With Fitzgerald and Huxley
And they pawned the biting phrase from the tongues hot with blood
And drained their pins of bitter ink
Vainly reaching for the bottle full of empty edens
Branded especially for the ones who had come with great expectations
To the perfumed halls of Allah, for their time in the sun
And we were stoking the fires and oiling up the machinery
Until the gods found out we had ideas of our own
And war was coming and the earth was shaking
And there was no more ruin in the Garden of Allah
Today I made an appearance downtown
I am an expert witness because I say I am
And I said gentlemen, and I use that world loosely
I will testify for you, I'm a gun for hire, I'm a saint, I'm a liar
Because there are no facts, there is no truth
Just data to be manipulated
I can get you any result you like
What's it worth to you?
Because there is no wrong, there is no right
And I sleep very well at night
No shame, no solution, no remorse, no retribution
Just people selling t-shirts
Just opportunity to participate in the pathetic little circus
And winning, winning, winning
It was pretty big year for predators
The marketplace was on a roll
And the land of opportunity
Spawned a whole new breed of men without souls
This year notoriety got all confused with fame
And the devil is downhearted babe, cause
There's nothing left for him to claim
He said it's just like home
It's so low-down I can't stand it
I guess my work around here has all been done
And the fruit is rotten, the serpent's eyes shine
As he wraps around the vine,
In the Garden of Allah
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@secularmerlin
So more intelligent = more rights? In that case a fetus still has no rights since they do not display intelligence.
More so the capability of intelligence or what their potential intelligence is compared to other intelligent life.
@Poly-Witch
You are too stupid to continue talking to.
I asked you questions and you call me "stupid". Okay.
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@TheRealNihilist
More so the capability of intelligence or what their potential intelligence is compared to other intelligent life.
How do we go about measuring "potential intelligence" as opposed to actual intelligence which is pretty hard to measure as it us?
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@Mopac
If you aren't a woman you are a liar.Abortion is a good thing because now I can CHOOSE to live the kind of life I WANT. I can CHOOSE whether or not I WANT to get fat and pregnant, which would destroy my figure and sex appeal, and I can CHOOSE to do with MY BODY what I WANT.
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@TheRealNihilist
You asked what born means. You just think we are stupid then.
@Poly-Witch
What I said:
What makes being born so important?
What you think I said:
You asked what born means.
Do you see the problem?
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@secularmerlin
I don't know. Whenever a good intelligence measurement comes out.How do we go about measuring "potential intelligence" as opposed to actual intelligence which is pretty hard to measure as it us?
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@TheRealNihilist
Rights are given by the government. Why should the government not give rights to the unborn which are the future generation?
they are not given by the government in the U.S. which country are we talking about because that would make a difference.
Some would argue abortion is a good thing because of the disproportionate number of black women who have them. Perhaps being pro-death can be because of racism to some people, racists don't think straight to begin with but I could see them thinking that way.
each human has unique human dna, perhaps start there as a basis for a human life.
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@TheRealNihilist
I don't know either but I'm pretty sure what qualifies as a person is entirely subjective. There may be no concrete criteria but I at least am reluctant to attribute personhood to any being unable to communicate it's personhood to me.I don't know.
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@secularmerlin
what I find interesting and perhaps what should be discussing is the question with no answer, what is a human life, person etc As you said it is subjective and on many levels. Often the question of x when meet with why is easily changed to "because I feel" and if you can do that it's just feelings or some other arbitrary reason.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
All qualia is arbitrary.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
what I find interesting and perhaps what should be discussing is the question with no answer, what is a human life, person etc As you said it is subjective and on many levels. Often the question of x when meet with why is easily changed to "because I feel" and if you can do that it's just feelings or some other arbitrary reason.
One thing I have noted from Omar is a tendency indicative of a conservative approach as it pertains to killing. If something is a gray area, then it must be justified, or we best not do it, which is consistent with his approach towards sentient animals in addition to humans, assuming he hasn't justified taking life of animals before. It makes sense if in case it is not yet ascertained what was right, that they could not ensure due process. I'm surprised this is done with an expressed world view where the truth is arbitrated by people, rather than respected by them.
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@secularmerlin
What is a person?
Why is that significant to you?
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@Snoopy
We grant rights to people. When discussing which rights should be granted to whom it becomes significant.
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@secularmerlin
Person: Being that has been granted at least one "right" by someone?
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@Snoopy
In that case it is not hard to imagine a world full of humans but with no people.
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@secularmerlin
Too bad, so sad
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@Snoopy
It would be sad yes.
Tell me can this right be granted by anyone or must that right be granted by a legally recognized government? Like van I grant my pet rock the right to travel in my pocket and then it is a person.
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@secularmerlin
If you worship yourself, your pet rock or anything for that matter, and it grants one rights, then according to the definition it would seem applicable to respect them as a person.
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@Snoopy
One thing I have noted from Omar is a tendency indicative of a conservative approach as it pertains to killing.
I once heard an analogy about this issue, though not a great one there are somethings to take away from it. You are driving down a dark road and see something on the side of the road that may or may not be a person. Imo the natural reaction is to slow down, proceed with extra caution......because it might be a life or not, since you aren't sure there seems to be a natural inclination to side with caution.
which then goes to
If something is a gray area, then it must be justified, or we best not do it, which is consistent with his approach towards sentient animals in addition to humans
ever hit an animal with a car? maybe killed it? I have, felt terrible about it too.
this is what separates us from animals, they don't show remorse or compassion when killing, they just kill, not good, not bad it's what they do, most of us are not animals.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
We are all animals, evolved on this planet just as every animal to have existed on this planet. Oh I know some of you believe you are special and distinct and that you have stories told by primitive men to prove it, it's just not true.
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@disgusted
What group are you referring to in "some of you"
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@Snoopy
Theists.
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@TheRealNihilist
If abortion was a good thing, all pregnancies would be aborted and people would throw a party whenever afoetus is terminated.I would like to know an argument that makes abortion a good thing.
so abortion is not agood thing in an absolute sense.
But somertimes aborting a pregnancy is 'more good' (better!) than not.
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@keithprosser
YesBut somertimes aborting a pregnancy is 'more good' (better!) than not.
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@secularmerlin
Well yeah but having a standard does help because it is pretty much something fundamental needed to know in order to make laws around it.I don't know either but I'm pretty sure what qualifies as a person is entirely subjective. There may be no concrete criteria but I at least am reluctant to attribute personhood to any being unable to communicate it's personhood to me.