How Did You Become An Atheist?

Author: Wrick-It-Ralph

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#121
Mopac
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
The ultimate reality is always the ultimate reality. It never was not the ultimate reality, nor will it ever not be the ultkmate reality. It is eternal.


The ultimate reality does not change. It is perfect. If the ultimate reality could change, that would mean that time is a greater reality. If there is a grester reality, what we are discussing does not meet the criteria for what the ultimate reality is.

The ultimate reality precedes time.
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#122
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@Mopac
You're just assuming the other ones are spreading lies.  There is no difference between your lies and their lies.  That's just subjective on your part. 


You're right, it's not like other mystery religions.  Yours is much more dangerous and poisons a lot more minds.  So there's that.  In this sense, I'd prefer ones that are spreading lies. 


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#123
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@Mopac
Okay cool then.  If that's what you call ultimate reality, then what you speak of is both incoherent and impossible.  I would agree that reality is eternal and nothing precedes time because time is an illusion that is created by space and motion.  Really, the term spacetime is a misnomer.  It should be called spacemotion. (copyright pending ;))

The rest of what you said is just factually false and therefore incoherent if you try to apply it to reality.  If knowledge was a calculator and your claim was an irrational equation, then the calculator would be flashing error right now. 

#124
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Imagine if the best thing you had for proof of a thing you live your life by was ummmmmmmm.  Its the ultimate supreme reality thus god exists  oh andddddddddd he wanted me to join the orthodox lot.  
Good game. 






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#125
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@Deb-8-a-bull
lol, yeah.  I wonder if he realizes that nobody is ever going to take him seriously outside of people already indoctrinated in his specific belief? 
#126
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@Wrick-It-Ralph

You're just assuming the other ones are spreading lies.  There is no difference between your lies and their lies.  That's just subjective on your part. 
There is quite a difference between a mystery religion that teaches love of God through abiding in The Truth and love of others who are made in the image of God and then say, the many Greek mystery religions that more resemble the debauchery you find in a frat house.

I am not assuming anything, I speak with knowledge. But rather than talk about these mystery cults, I'd rather speak about the position I represent.


You're right, it's not like other mystery religions.  Yours is much more dangerous and poisons a lot more minds.  So there's that.  In this sense, I'd prefer ones that are spreading lies. 

It sounds to me like you fear what you don't understand. There is nothing dangerous about my religion. If there is any danger, it is in deviation from my religion. Those who prefer lies to The Truth will be cursed with strong delusion.

Okay cool then.  If that's what you call ultimate reality, then what you speak of is both incoherent and impossible.  I would agree that reality is eternal and nothing precedes time because time is an illusion that is created by space and motion.  Really, the term spacetime is a misnomer.  It should be called spacemotion. (copyright pending ;))

If time is an illusion, then the ultimate reality precedes time quite naturally, and what I am saying is not as incoherent to you as you claim.


The rest of what you said is just factually false and therefore incoherent if you try to apply it to reality.  If knowledge was a calculator and your claim was an irrational equation, then the calculator would be flashing error right now. 


Not false at all. Mathematics very naturally falls apart when it hits The Singularity. The Singularity is not incoherent so much as it is incomprehensible.


#127
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
lol, yeah.  I wonder if he realizes that nobody is ever going to take him seriously outside of people already indoctrinated in his specific belief


"He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."


"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause."



I post these scriptures not to convince you, but to show that there is nothing here I experience that wasn't expected before I came.

I suffer these things for the sake of those who have ears to hear. If no one hears, a work is still being done on my heart.


#128
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@Mopac
You claim that your ultimate reality is a god and gods are the creation of human imagination and since your claim is that your ultimate reality is a god then the imaginary god fulfills your your claim.

You only talk nonsense.

Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, they will see God"

Prove it.

You keep running away from this, is that just cowardice?

#129
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
No! Mop defines ultimate reality as his god.
#130
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I was born one. Until I wasn't one. 
#131
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
How Did You Become An Atheist?
I didn't become an atheist, I was born an atheist.

I don't like calling myself an atheist because I'm not, but for the sake of this thread you may assume that I am.

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#132
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@Paul
interesting 

#133
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@Mopac
I have already told you what I think it means. I'm not playing these games anymore. I assumed you intended to debated subject when you first replied to me. Apparently that may not be the case. it seems more like you think you need to teach me in some way. I'm not here for that.
#134
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@WyseGui
It really doesn't matter what you think something means. If you are arguing against a different meaning than the meaning the church uses, you are debating a straw man.


You should probably be more open minded to learning, because you don't understand what you are debating.

#135
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@Mopac
Your church obviously has an inadequate message that's why it's such a small cult.
#136
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@Mopac
I don't even know what I am debating at this point. You are the one making the assertions. I never even said I disagreed with your interpretation. I only disagreed that it was apodictic truth. Then we got into what Ultimate Reality is and instead of being straight forth with your answers your being cryptic and mysterious. Now for the 3rd time basically telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. You just create this scenario in your mind to suit you ego it seems. You have no idea what I do and do not know. And to say that you do is childish

#137
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@disgusted
It is the second largest congregation of people who go by the name Christian in the world.



#138
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@WyseGui

I know you don't know what you are debating. It looks to me like you are confused by your own defensiveness. If I were to respond to everything you throw out there haphazardly, I would be just as confused as you.


So lets rewind...



If you don't believe there is ultimate reality, I can only conclude a few things...


1. You have no idea what you are denying.
2. You are lying.
3. You are a fool.


I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, and going with 1. You have to understand, from my perspective, you aren't standing on anything, so I am not impressed with your pretense of rationality. 


This is the only thing we need to talk about now.


The Ultimate Reality.

What do you think that means? 





#139
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@Mopac
That's because you started throwing out claims haphazardly. My defense has been plain and consistent. You have put words in my mouth and taken what I have said out of context by chopping them up and nitpicking them. Multiple times. I have mentioned it and you keep ignoring it. I can post proof that you have done this. So its crazy how you keep telling me I dont know what I am talking about and that I'm confused. You are full of yourself.

I'll give you my answer again. Im not going to retype it and package it in a way that works for you. Especially with you constantly telling me I don't know what I'm debating. The answer is clear. I have even said this multiple times throughout this conversation. Take it or leave it:

I am talking about a God. An entity.

#140
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@WyseGui
The Ultimate Reality.

What do you think that means? 

What do you mean by an entity, because as I showed you an entity is...

 

"being, existence; especially : independent, separate, or self-contained existence"

Which I certainly wouldn't disagree with, but I have a feeling your understanding is superstitious, as you seem to be in denial of the existence of ultimate reality.


#141
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@WyseGui
You can ignore him. Most everyone does. 
#142
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@Mopac
You did not show me what entity is. You only think you did. That is what I am talking about. It is easier for you to believe you just showed me what it means. It also doesn't need to be further defined.

And yes, I have already said we can only say we do not know, we can not be certain. That is what the thread is about. Call it denial if you want but you are the one making these assertions. You haven't demonstrated any of them to be true. I have a very basic christian view of God. Don't know what is superstitious about that. It is just as I said. There is a wall of logic religion can never climb. You even said it wasn't necessary to understanding "The Truth". you haven't even really told me what tat is. You just keep tap dancing. Your positioning yourself so that even if you tell me and I argue it, you'll say I'm in denial.

If the argument is apodictic it should be "self-evident". So lefts hear it.
#143
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@WyseGui
I am asking you what you think.

By all means, keep whining and being unproductive though. Blame me for it.



The Ultimate Reality clearly exists. That is even what Ultimate Reality means. It is ultimately real. Real in the realest sense. If it doesn't exist, it doesn't fulfill the essence of what it means. 

Not that difficult to understand unless you don't want to understand.


#144
WyseGui
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I just answered your question and asked my own and now I'm being unproductive. You asked me what I thought it meant. And I answered. You even responded to my answer with no further inquiry. So no you are not asking I am asking. These are signs of productivity. Don;t be mad at me because other people are calling you out.

Let me get this straight


An example of apodictic truth is "The Ultimate Reality exists". When we say "God", that is what is meant.

And certainly, you can arrive to this conclusion with sound logic, but you do not need logic to know that The Ultimste Reality exists


My response was


If it was an apodicitc truth, there would be and we would be aware of it. Especially if other people, like yourself, have already discovered this sound logic. We keep talking around it but lets hear it. What is the logic used?
And you answer is because it clearly exists? This is the sound logic you were referring to? The logic I am just in denial of? You cannot be serious. So if I name this pizza Ultimate Pizza. Its of course is the Ultimate Pizza because that's what it is called. Not because of the 4 for 1 Ultimate toppings deal that includes 5 different cheeses and cheesy bread. But just because if it wasn't Ultimate pizza it could fulfill the essance of actauuly being Ultimate Pizza. And your telling indoctrination has nothing to do with this understanding?

#145
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@WyseGui
Ok, I'll take your word for it. You are knowingly denying The Truth and reality itself. That explains why you are so irrational.



#146
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--> @Mopac

No not reality. Putting words in my mouth again. I am definitely here as far as I can tell. Just denying your ridiculously unfounded claims. You also use reality and Ultimate Reality interchangeably, which implies you don't really know what you are talking about. As I said, wall of logic.
#147
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@Polytheist-Witch
I know. I just can't help it sometimes. I have to see how peoples logic work. Especially if they are irrational.
#148
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@WyseGui
They are different.

But if there is no ultimate reality, there can be no reality because nothing is ultimately real.




#149
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@Mopac
Yea and if there is no ultimate pizza, there can be no pizza because nothing is ultimately pizza. Makes perfect sense
#150
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@WyseGui
The existence of a pizza does not require the existence of an ultimate pizza.


The existence of reality does require the existence of ultimate reality.


If there is no ultimate reality, there is no reality.