Apparently in Islam men should beat their wives out of love.
Cleric in Qatar explains how Muslim men should beat their wife
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I've never heard of a Muslim disagreeing with that, however that's the first time I've seen a video of it in which they show what they're referring to when they talk about "light" beatings. No matter, it is still utterly barbaric behavior.
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@Goldtop
I've never heard of a Muslim disagreeing with that, however that's the first time I've seen a video of it in which they show what they're referring to when they talk about "light" beatings. No matter, it is still utterly barbaric behavior.
The average Muslim has 4 wives. This might be one of their exercise videos.
Obviously this is not true, since there are not four times as many Muslim women as men.The average Muslim has 4 wives.
I saw the video and it was surprisingly, well, not bad. What the cleric described does not sound at all like a beating, but rather a "shoulder tap/shake". Considering that this video came from the Arabian Peninsula you'd really expect a lot worse...
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@Swagnarok
sure, it's pretty tame in terms of physical harm The real barbarity is in the psychological harm Just look at the excuse the cleric uses for an example of a good reason for beating your wife--that she left the house without permission. The entire purpose is subjugation.
12 days later
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@Stronn
sure, it's pretty tame in terms of physical harm The real barbarity is in the psychological harm Just look at the excuse the cleric uses for an example of a good reason for beating your wife--that she left the house without permission. The entire purpose is subjugation.
I don't think you'd have to go back many generations to find a time when that level of 'wife beating' would hae been considered indequate in Chrstendom! It is a conspicuous feature of Islamic culture that there is a rule for almost everything. There are no guidelines about wife beating in Christianity; only a vague phrases such as 'wives are subject to their husand' and husbands should not be harsh. No limit is set.
However in Christendom it is secular law, not Christian docrtine that limits spousal violence.
"An 1824 court ruling in Mississippi stated that a man was entitled to enforce "domestic discipline" by striking his wife with a whip or stick no wider than the judge's thumb". (wikipedia)
So until relatiely recently women had more protection under Islam than they did in Christendom. One should also note that the islamic guidelines would proably have marked a considerable advance for women more than a millennium ago.
Not all women could vote in the US until 1920 (black women until 1965). Husbands had legal immunity from rape of their wives in the uk until 1991!
i'm not saying Islam is great - it isn't. But before we get too 'holier than thou' it's well to note we are not all that much holier!
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@keithprosser
i'm not saying Islam is great - it isn't.
Husband Brutally Beats Model Wife As She Refused To Convert To Islam
So apart from its stances on wife slapping golightly and the lynching and or burning of homosexuals and beheading and stoning of women who have been raped. What is great about it?
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@Stephen
Let's see... I said islam isn't great and you ask me what is great about it.
I
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@keithprosser
Let's see... I said islam isn't great and you ask me what is great about it.
I did, I was hoping that after all the fuss you kick up when I post anything that you deem to be anti islamic you would have at least, by now, have found something good to say about it?
Husband Brutally Beats Model Wife As She Refused To Convert To Islam
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@Stephen
Sharia is the law code of islam. It is not considered to be divinely inspired.
The primary principles of Sharia are Ijtihad and taqlid, essentially 'reason' and 'precedent/tradition'. Contary to popular belief, Sharia is not set in stone nor considered perfect (that is for the quran alone). It goes without saying that conservative Muslims (such as the Saudis) want nothing to do with Ijtihad! Under their influence the notion has arisen that 'the gates of itjihad are closed', effectively freezing sharia in its centuries old form.
Reform of Islam involves re-opening thise gates (although arguably they were never and can't be closed).
Here's a link to the gatestone institute's take, which is pessimistic about itihad.
Sharia is the law code of islam. It is not considered to be divinely inspired.
So. it is an Islamic code of islamic religious law. Shariah Islamic law courts have sprang up all over Britain in the last 15 + years, but what's your point?
I think you need to refer to your wiki handbook:
"the term sharīʿah refers to God's immutable divine law and is contrasted with fiqh, which refers to its human scholarly interpretations".
See that, "God's immutable law" that would be the ISLAMIC god Allah the god of ALL muslims.
"immutable"
unchanging over time or unable to be . unchangeable.
It is unchangeable, fixed, set, rigid, inflexible, unyielding, unbending, permanent, entrenched, established, well established, unshakeable, irremovable, indelible, ineradicable;
unchanging, unchanged, changeless, unvarying, unvaried, undeviating, static, constant, lasting, abiding, enduring, persistent, perpetual.
It appears that the so called "moderate muslims" have an uphill struggle, don't they? What do you suggest keith?
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@Stephen
Normally you're up in arms because (you say) Muslims slavishly follow their religion!
Muslims sometimes break the Sharia laws - who knew?
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@Stephen
What do you suggest keith?
I suggest you read beyond the inroductory first few lines of wikipedia articles. Later on it says
Jan Michiel Otto distinguishes four senses conveyed by the term sharia in religious, legal and political discourse:[25]
- Divine, abstract sharia: God's plan for mankind and the norms of behavior which should guide the Islamic community. Muslims of different perspectives agree in their respect for the abstract notion of sharia, but they differ in how they understand the practical implications of the term.
- Classical sharia: the body of rules and principles elaborated by Islamic jurists during the first centuries of Islam.
- Historical sharia(s): the body of rules and interpretations developed throughout Islamic history, ranging from personal beliefs to state legislation and varying across an ideological spectrum. Classical sharia has often served as a point of reference for these variants, but they have also reflected the influences of their time and place.
- Contemporary sharia(s): the full spectrum of rules and interpretations that are developed and practiced at present
Only the first is immutable, but it is also abstract.
It appears that the so called "moderate muslims" have an uphill struggle, don't they?
I wouldn't expect Gatestone to be totally positive. But, like you, I choose my side on principle, not which is the easiest option.
Sharia is the law code of islam. It is not considered to be divinely inspired.Jan Michiel Otto distinguishes four senses conveyed by the term sharia in religious, legal and political discourse:[25]
- Divine, abstract sharia: God's plan for mankind and the norms of behavior which should guide the Islamic community. Muslims of different perspectives agree in their respect for the abstract notion of sharia, but they differ in how they understand the practical implications of the term.
- Classical sharia: the body of rules and principles elaborated by Islamic jurists during the first centuries of Islam.
- Historical sharia(s): the body of rules and interpretations developed throughout Islamic history, ranging from personal beliefs to state legislation and varying across an ideological spectrum. Classical sharia has often served as a point of reference for these variants, but they have also reflected the influences of their time and place.
- Contemporary sharia(s): the full spectrum of rules and interpretations that are developed and practiced at present
Yes and all of it Islamic. No matter which colour you attempt to paint. And the god of Islam is Allah and his plan is Jihad until all religion is for him. It is his Law.
Only the first is immutable, but it is also abstract.
That is more of an opinion than it is fact. But hey, It's all Islamic to me.
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@Stephen
It's my experience that rank-and-file Muslims are no more expert in Islamic theology than the pew-fillers of Christianity. They rely on their Imam far too much.
If muslim kids in the uk are getting a solid british education and not being indoctrinated in Saudi funded madrasa (as happens in parts of the world) things are far from hopeless! As far as I can tell, Muslim schools in the UK return good results.
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@keithprosser
It's my experience that rank-and-file Muslims are no more expert in Islamic theology than the pew-fillers of Christianity.
I couldn't agree more . And it is testament to the advantageous progress of western civilisation that " rank and file " christians are not filling the pews anymore. It indicates they have grown up to think for themselves and the other advantage is that they are educated enough to read for themselves what the preacher has actually been preaching to them and have free will to contradict, question and criticize Christianity. As I have done for well over 40 years. That said, depending on what one reads or listens to , this it does not mean that Christianity is on the decline.
On the other hand, the "rank and file muslims" as you have so ambiguously phrased them, don't seem to have a choice. Listening to their manipulative educated preacher is all they have. I have raised the point many times when I have been fed the BS that - ' to understand Islam one has to know Arabic '. This is another BS get out the apologists often use and they , to my mind, shoot themselves in the foot when I ask in return the do all of the 95-98% of Pakistani muslims read and understand Arabic? So again, it is among other things, lack of education that will hold back Islam from coming forward. Your "rank and file muslims" don't seem to understand that they do have free will to contradict, question and criticize Islam. Or do they, but realise the consequences of denying their preacher and their faith?
That said, the Sri Lanka muslim terrorists believed 'Islam can be the only religion', came from wealthy backgrounds and were highly educated.
When police and soldiers in Sri Lanka set out on the trail of the attackers who killed more than 350 people in a series of bombings on Easter Sunday, they did not expect to find themselves in Dematagoda, one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Colombo.
Within 90 minutes of the attack, as hospitals struggled to cope with the huge number of casualties, the security forces were closing in on a three-storey house with a BMW parked outside.
Two brothers lived there with their families: 38-year-old Inshaf Ibrahim, a copper factory owner, and Ilham, 36. Their father, Mohamed Yusuf Ibrahim, one of the most successful business people in the island nation’s Muslim community, made a fortune exporting spices. The two brothers were also involved in the jewellery trade. They were both among the attackers.
If muslim kids in the uk are getting a solid british education and not being indoctrinated in Saudi funded madrasa (as happens in parts of the world) things are far from hopeless! As far as I can tell, Muslim schools in the UK return good results.
That used to be that case at one time from the 60's through to the 80's . Arabs and Pakistani children were taught in English schools. I know , I went to the same school as many of them , mainly Arab. But it is as I keep telling you. Once a muslim community expands then Islam gets a grip of that community, they will and do demand another way of living. Mosques, Shariah law and their own muslim schools/ madrasas that teach only the quran. Or did you miss the "Trojan Horse" scandal ? You may not want to face this but it is true and the indigenous people of those communities suffer terrible because government and the police simply turn a blind eye.
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@Stephen
And the god of Islam is Allah and his plan is Jihad until all religion is for him. It is his Law.
You talk as if this Allah character is real. I think you have a problem.
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@disgusted
And the god of Islam is Allah and his plan is Jihad until all religion is for him. It is his Law.You talk as if this Allah character is real. I think you have a problem.
On the contrary you vile, disgusting, filthy, grubby specimen. As much as you want to forget it, I will remind you that it is those people that YOU address as "stupid Muslims", and who YOU say "all have mental issues for having a faith in Allah their god" that believe that he is real.
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@Stephen
And yet you place yourself in that category. Oh well.
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@Stephen
Excuse the break. At least it allows us to guage the level of interest in our spat generally!
I'm not going to be online very much either in the foreseeable future, so do can you worst unhindered by me.
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@keithprosser
so do can you worst unhindered by me.
Lay off the orange juice keith it affecting your speech.
I'm not going to be online very much either.
Not surprised. I understand your embarrassment. You started a thread where you wanted to "explore if there are benign forms of Islam, or at least less toxic ones?" and didn't get further than page two, where you failed to comment on your own link and failed to answer any question .
Yes, one deep exploration into Islam, that was.. Don't worry. I won't let your one and only thread ever on why "Islam Is Backward" sink from the top 10. There is much to explore and discuss in that one and only link.
Why is Islam Backward
Oh, And let me remind you. The last four threads concerning Islam where not started by me. No.
There was your own with the pejorative title:
Why Is Islam Backward by keithprosser
207 Killed In Sri Lanka by Muslims by SupaDudz
Cleric in Qatar explains how Muslim men should beat their wife by Stronn
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@Stephen
'Tis a pity it only you and I seem to think the article I linked to was interesting. I know where you stand!Yes, one deep exploration into Islam, that was.. Don't worry. I won't let your one and only thread ever on why "Islam Is Backward" sink from the top 10. There is much to explore and discuss in that one and only link.
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@Stephen
WOMEN REJOICE !
not only do YOU get to be BEATEN - WHIPPED -STONED - ACID on your FACE - EXECUTED -
HUMILIATED - RAPED - ENSLAVED - and ultimately thrown in a dumpster to ROT...you get
to stay totally DUMBED and NUMBED down into a ZOMBIE whose only purpose is to breed
serve and ROT ! Praise ALLAH !
Women are the lowest form of animal slave servants...the MAN is OMNIPOTENT all women must
OBEY and SUFFER till DEATH do you ROT.....for it is written in the Comic Book Quran....
SUFFER...SUFFER...and ROT for your very existence is a CRIME......but first make me some SONS
care for them till they find their own SLAVE ZOMBIE FEMALES to CAGE and OPPRESS....
HMMmmmm....and where is ALLAH's neighbor JESUS in all of this drama ? or more relevant....
Where is the abrahamic JEW GOD Moses talked to 3,500 years earlier ?...and after helping the JEWS
get out of EGYPT (an ARAB culture) he just VANISHED ! and left the JEWS to fend for themselves
for another 1,500 years...until....some illiterate JEWISH TRIBE GIRL gave BIRTH to MOSES GOD !
and as a BABY the JESUS GOD did NOTHING ! except..eat.. sht.. sleep...and he GREW....GREW
into a young MAN GOD...
Uh, like what was this GOD doing for his human creation that was SUFFERING horribly under ROME ?
SHHHhhhh....that doesn't matter...what matters is that by JESUS early 30's his JEW TRIBE was so
disgusted with his claim of being their MESSIAH....they conspired with ROME to have him EXECUTED
in a GRAND SPECTACLE ! and ROME always loves a SPECTACLE...especially during TIBERIUS run
as EMPEROR at the time of his EXTERMINATION ! BUT WAIT !
Hey ladies YES, it's TRUE even during JESUS time most tribal women were treated like FILTHY WORTHLESS
DOGS...regardless of which GOD humans were using as a scapegoat for control ...WOMEN were at the
BOTTOM...like in the BED and in SOCIETY....Gee...women have had it really BAD for thousands of YEARS !
Unless they married some ARISTOCRAT who had his own army of sex slaves to serve him...the WIFE thing
was for TROPHY purposes
Don't forget...after the MOSES GOD played JESUS he was beaten -whipped - and nailed to a cross to ROT !
Guess who was Emperor after TIBERIUS when JESUS was MURDERED ? CALIGULA ! yeah the young man that
assassinated his relative TIBERIUS to claim the throne...and this guy PARTIED ! like 24/7 ORGIES...
and SEX...MURDER SPECTACLES for his people !...+++ so many atrocities...he himself was EXTERMINATED
by Senators of ROME ...he had fun for at least 3 YEARS ! where was GOD during all this nasty Roman stuff ?
and as ALWAYS....WOMEN were treated like GARBAGE and left to ROT
Then after a tirade in JESUS name of DEATH, DESTRUCTION, ASSIMILATION by VIOLENCE by order of
The Roman Catholic CHURCH ! the ARABS had enough ! and they invented ALLAH and ISLAM....they
used the JEW Old Testament of horrifically OBSOLETE and OPPRESSIVE Dogma to totally go on a rampage
of assimilation...death..and destruction...100 times more strict and psychotic than the JEW GOD Old Testament
VOMIT...they invented ALLAH and the totally PSYCHO VAMPIRE QURAN...poor women this time bundled up
and hidden in black sacks....to BREED -SERVE - ROT for the men that owned them like DOGS...
SOLUTION ? rise up WOMEN and take back your MINDS and LIVES from these Pathetic parasite VAMPIRES
that SUCK the very life blood and energy from your existence....all for some fabricated spin of
a JEW GOD hoax 3,500 years earlier....
NO GOD and especially no HUMAN is ever worth being an OPPRESSED - BEATEN - TORTURED - SLAVE for
EVER ! ...you never need to be approved and validated to EXIST and DIE by these scumbag Parasites who hide
and use their invented ALLAH GOD hoax and Comic Book Quran as TOOLS of TERROR
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@keithprosser
'Tis a pity it only you
I agree. But being labeled an Islamophobic racist bigot who spreads hate, division and fear and likened to the KKK far right, is water off a duck's back to me . Maybe those other members who started those threads simply didn't fancy the same accusations being leveled at them simply for airing their , what you call "anti islam" opinions, who knows why they start a thread and then don't take part in the discussion? At least you managed to last just a page and a half on your own thread, eh keith.
Why Is Islam Backward ? Author keithprosser
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@Stronn
.......New WORLD News.........every since the elimination of the Abrahamic GODS to Comic Book Mythology in 2022 the Middle East has had
an unprecedented surge in new infrastructure and cooperation among the up and coming generations....never before has there been such
unity and harmony among the people of this region where some of earliest and advanced cultures flourished 6 - 8 thousand years ago...
More excitement is building as researchers are discovering more and more amazing artifacts and information on these amazing ancient
civilizations...
As the older generations DIE off and take their horrifically OBSOLETE and OPPRESSIVE Comic Book GODS and DOGMA
to the grave with them... a revitalization of the region has occurred in place of the CONFLICT - FEAR - VIOLENCE....which
dominated the region for 5000 years...
These are truly EPIC TIMES as all of HUMANITY has trashed the Abrahamic GOD construct for POWER and CONTROL of the MINDS
and LIVES of BILLIONS....now that humanity is FREE from the parasite VAMPIRE bondage founded by the defunct Roman Catholic Church
and the MUSLIM Allah God garbage....it's like a perpetual spring time all over the planet...
Live WELL - LONG and PROSPER is the new MANTRA of humanity....a true breath of fresh air now that the HELL on EARTH Abrahamic
JEW - JESUS - ALLAH GOD are meaningless Mythology and Comic Books for entertainment only...