Is there truth to Nihilism and if so, which version is the most accurate?

Author: Wrick-It-Ralph

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#91
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@mustardness
Oh the irony.  how many people have to not understand your nonsense before you realize it's not plain English?  I guess you must think the entire world runs off ego besides you. 
#92
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
how many people have to not understand your nonsense before you realize it's not plain English?  I guess you must think the entire world runs off ego besides you.
PLease share when you have any shred of rational, logical common sense that addresses my comments, as stated, and;

1} adds to, or invalidates the validity, truth, facts as Ive presented them

2} does not contain false/bogus or misleading comments,

3} get beyond{ meta } short-sighted narrow-minded pettiness,

4} place your ego to the side,

5} read my lips/text as presented.


1} spirit-1{ spirit-of-intent } aka metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept with a resultant ego{ i },

.....1a} absolute truth,

.....1b} relative truth,

.....1c} lies.

--------------conceptual line-of-demarcation---------------------------------------------

2} metaphysical-2, macro-infinite, non-occupied SPACE, that, embraces/surrounds the following,
.

3} spirit-2,  as occupied SPACE Universe aka Uni-V-erse of Observed Time { /\/\/ } aka reality/energy via fermions, bosons ---and possibly a new 3rd  hybrid catagory-- or any aggregate collection thereof ex atoms, molecules, planets, clusters of galaxies etc,

.....3a} Spirit-3,  metaphysical-3 Gravity ( ) as positive shaped geodesic curvature of occupied Space,

.....3b} Spirit-4,  metaphysical-4, Dark energy )( as negative shaped geodesic curvature of occupied Space.

None have ever offered any rational, logical common sense that adds to, or detracts from the above. I doubt any ever will.

(S)*t*(S) >>> (Space)Time(Space)>>>>(*) i (*)>>>consciousness with access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts ego and spirit-of-intent.

Yay tho we walk through the valley ego death we will have no fear as we know the ego cannot be lost, only set to the side to allow and portal of truth to enter the mind of consideration.



7 days later

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#93
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@mustardness
It has been shown that as long as the first and last letter are correct, then when context is also known, then that more often than not, the word can be figured out ergo it has meaning to the human.

This seems ad hoc to me.  


It has a meaning to us in the sense that we invented the words and assigned them values.  The process by which we obtain this meaning is arbitrary. 

I'm fine with this being called meaning, but is it the same type of meaning that a nihilist is talking about?  Because whatever mentalese that this person represents with the word "meaning" is what I want to talk about.  What would you say to that? 
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
This seems ad hoc to me.
This is what I read years ago. I think it was based on scientific studies ---laboratory?-- ergo a fact not ad hoc as you suggest.

The rest of comments seem superflous of no real significance distraction to the core comments and definitions of significant that Ive repeatedly given at DArt and you ignore.  Another attempt by you to distract and mislead to nowhere of significance. Ego.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PLease share when you have any shred of rational, logical common sense that addresses my comments, as stated, and;

1} adds to, or invalidates the validity, truth, facts as Ive presented them

2} does not contain false/bogus or misleading comments,

3} get beyond{ meta } short-sighted narrow-minded pettiness,

4} place your ego to the side,

5} read my lips/text as presented.


1} spirit-1{ spirit-of-intent } aka metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concept with a resultant ego{ i },

.....1a} absolute truth,

.....1b} relative truth,

.....1c} lies.

--------------conceptual line-of-demarcation---------------------------------------------

2} metaphysical-2, macro-infinite, non-occupied SPACE, that, embraces/surrounds the following,
.

3} spirit-2,  as occupied SPACE Universe aka Uni-V-erse of Observed Time { /\/\/ } aka reality/energy via fermions, bosons ---and possibly a new 3rd  hybrid catagory-- or any aggregate collection thereof ex atoms, molecules, planets, clusters of galaxies etc,

.....3a} Spirit-3,  metaphysical-3 Gravity ( ) as positive shaped geodesic curvature of occupied Space,

.....3b} Spirit-4,  metaphysical-4, Dark energy )( as negative shaped geodesic curvature of occupied Space.

None have ever offered any rational, logical common sense that adds to, or detracts from the above. I doubt any ever will.

(S)*t*(S) >>> (Space)Time(Space)>>>>(*) i (*)>>>consciousness with access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts ego and spirit-of-intent.

Yay tho we walk through the valley ego death we will have no fear as we know the ego cannot be lost, only set to the side to allow and portal of truth to enter the mind of consideration.

Topic's author
#95
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@mustardness
You misunderstand me.  I don't deny that people can read jumble words when the first and last letters match.  That doesn't change the fact that we invented those letters evolved brains that became good at reading them efficiently. 

I'm not really trying to contest your assessment of meaning.  Obviously humans endow things with meaning.  That's just a fact.  My concern is trying to find out if the meaning that is contested in nihilism has merit to it.  This has nothing to do with subjective meaning because as far as I know, nihilists don't reject that. 
#96
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..IF
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@mustardness
@TheRealNihilist
@Wrick-It-Ralph
"That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs  no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. "
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

#98
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Nihilism is self defeating, and nihilists are dupes.

As God is The Ultimate Reality, atheism is nihilism.


Once you see it, you can't unsee it!


That is why they even think "ultimate reality" is a meaningless term.

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#99
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@Mopac
Atheism is not Nihilism.  

That's just something that apologists say to make personal attacks because they're arguments are weak and they need to resort to name calling.  I'm only talking about the dishonest theists here.  Unlike you, I've actually met quite a few theists who actually care about truth. 


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@Wrick-It-Ralph
The Truth is God
Therefore to deny this God is nihilism.


I try to avoid saying things simply to be mean.

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#101
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@Mopac
What evidence do you have that truth is god besides defining it that way?  I could do that with anything. 

Truth is unicorns. 
Truth is potatoes. 
Truth is false. 
Truth is true. 


Honestly, do you really find this crap convincing?  


Nihilism is the belief that there is no intrinsic meaning in the universe.  This has nothing to do with God.  Intrinsic meaning could be something floating out in the universe or it could be something else but it doesn't have to be God.  Even if that was the case, it doesn't mean that every atheist is a nihilist.  Nihilism is a belief which means they have to believe the claim wiling, not accidentally through a series of maybes. 



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@Wrick-It-Ralph
The Church has always understood God to be The Truth itself.


If you make God anything other than this, not only are you talking about a different god, but none of our theology can make sense.

#103
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@Mopac
@Wrick-It-Ralph
"That there is no truth; that there is no absolute state of affairs  no 'thing in itself This alone is Nihilism, and of the most extreme kind. "
~ Friedrich Nietzsche
If you actually read his work he and what his work states clearly lays out he is against nihilism. Giving a quote without knowing the context is the problem. This by itself means there is no absolute truth which can mean nihilism due to some absolute as what we are can't attain. 

I also put you in the receiver. Do you think I am correct? 
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#104
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@TheRealNihilist
I can't say for sure if it's an argument against nihilism, but it certainly seems like one. 
#105
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I can't say for sure if it's an argument against nihilism, but it certainly seems like one. 
No the argument is neither for or against. It simply states a descriptive statement which leaves out to interpret how the person sees fit with what they value. 

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@TheRealNihilist
I would agree that it's descriptive. 
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
I would agree that it's descriptive. 
Okay.

#108
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@TheRealNihilist
Friedrich Nietzsche is not important to what I am saying.


What I am saying is that to say there is no Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth(which is what God means), is to embrace nihilism.

So atheism and nihilism are very much connected.


But besides this, truly, nihilism is at its core the denial of reality. Existence is meaningless!


God is The Existing One, so what does that mean? God is meaningless! 

Nihilism is very consistent, and even the delusions that are used to prop it up on its foundation of sand can be understood better if you realize that a philosophy of denial of truth can only be propped up by lies.


And surely enough, atheist arguments(because as I said, atheism is really nihilism) are made out of convenience, not truth. If an argument will sound convincing to someone, it will be used. It is not really important if it is true, because there is no truth. If you can appeal to someone's belief in truth to convince them to adopt a position that means there is no truth, you are arguing like a true nihilist! It is about what is convenient. It is also so easy even the simplest of people can argue like an atheist. Simply deny everything unless you can use the belief of another to convert them! 


Nihilism and its less scary sounding manifestation atheism are satanic in the truest sense. The worldview itself kills, steals, and destroys. The ones who spread it do so by magic. Those who get sucked into it go down a path of delusion.


And being so intrinsically tied to pride, it is a particularly dangerous form of prelest that is not easy to overcome. After all, those who don't acknowledge or even recognize they are sick cannot seek to be cured!



#109
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@Mopac
What I am saying is that to say there is no Ultimate Reality or Absolute Truth(which is what God means), is to embrace nihilism.
False. Even the quote doesn't even say that.
So atheism and nihilism are very much connected.
No they are not. One is a disbelief and the other depends on the nihilism. Existential nihilism is stating their is no objective value whereas atheism is a  disbelief. 
But besides this, truly, nihilism is at its core the denial of reality. Existence is meaningless!
Existence being meaningless doesn't mean reality isn't reality. That point does not logically follow and you have to explain yourself.
God is The Existing One, so what does that mean? God is meaningless! 
I am guessing this is a false equivocation. Since I think I am the only one who in this conversation who cares about not being fallacious I'll still point it out.
Nihilism is very consistent, and even the delusions that are used to prop it up on its foundation of sand can be understood better if you realize that a philosophy of denial of truth can only be propped up by lies.
You said a lot of words that don't really say a lot. Basically nihilism is delusions and denial of truth. Nihilism isn't and it would take one Google search to find that out.
And surely enough, atheist arguments(because as I said, atheism is really nihilism) are made out of convenience, not truth. If an argument will sound convincing to someone, it will be used. It is not really important if it is true, because there is no truth. If you can appeal to someone's belief in truth to convince them to adopt a position that means there is no truth, you are arguing like a true nihilist! It is about what is convenient. It is also so easy even the simplest of people can argue like an atheist. Simply deny everything unless you can use the belief of another to convert them! 
This is nonsensical. In order for an atheist to debunk a theist it would require to listen and debunk the argument. This can be based on reason or belief. You don't understand simply rejecting God doesn't mean you reject reality. You don't understand reality and God are not linked and for you to say so would require an explanation. Sadly you have failed in the past and have shown no sign of proving the existence of your God and why you conflate God and reality to be the same thing.
Nihilism and its less scary sounding manifestation atheism are satanic in the truest sense. The worldview itself kills, steals, and destroys. The ones who spread it do so by magic. Those who get sucked into it go down a path of delusion.
Guess this must be inspired by the Bible or the idols you look up to. Why not understand if something makes sense before saying it? You have made the claim that nihilism is the rejection of reality so how are they killing, stealing or destroying in their eyes. The only one delusional is the one who conflates God and reality to be the same thing. Telling someone else they are delusional is ironic.
And being so intrinsically tied to pride, it is a particularly dangerous form of prelest that is not easy to overcome. After all, those who don't acknowledge or even recognize they are sick cannot seek to be cured!
Guess more inspiration from the Bible and idols. Not worth rebutting. 
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@TheRealNihilist
When you ask me to prove that God exists, you are asking me to prove that there is ultimate reality.


You can't know what you are asking.


And indeed you don't, otherwise you would see how to say God doesn't exist is reject reality.
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@Mopac
Yet again you conflate two separate ideas without justification. Come back to me when you are not doing that. 
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@TheRealNihilist
That is simply untrue.

The Ultimate Reality is what is God means. That is certainly how we Orthodox understand God. You confuse god with God.

#113
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@Mopac
You don't understand what you are talking about. In order to have a substantial stance you would need to justify it. If you don't it is arbitrary. It is clear your position is arbitrary and when I press you on explanations why you conflate God to be the supreme being and ultimate reality you can't justify it. If you can't reason the stance you made it is arbitrary. 
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#114
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@Mopac
@TheRealNihilist
I'm not sure that there's any point in arguing with Mopac.  When's somebody position is that they willingly choose to stop looking for answers and say that ignorance is truth, then there's not point in talking about it. 

That's what's happening here. 

God is Truth
God is a Mystery 
We can't know a Mystery only experience it. 
 Therefore God and therefor we should also stop looking for answers. 


This is the argument in a nut shell.  There's no logic to it. 

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@Wrick-It-Ralph
God is Truth
God is a Mystery 
We can't know a Mystery only experience it. 
 Therefore God and therefor we should also stop looking for answers. 


This is the argument in a nut shell.  There's no logic to it. 

It can be justified so that it doesn't become arbitrary but he doesn't even attempt it. Sure there is a massive burden with the claims he is making but a massive burden doesn't mean the justification would not be possible instead would require more reason so that all of what he said isn't arbitrary.  
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@TheRealNihilist
Definition courtesy merriam-webster...


"capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality"


Definition courtesy Oxford...

(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.



I'm being arbitrary, but you are arguing with the dictionary.





#117
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Actually, as you resist education, that would make you guilty of the invincible ignorance fallacy on top of your straw man.



Really though, that isn't my argument. My argument is that I am engaging with fools.  If the people I am arguing with refuse to accept the  way we understand our terms, they refusing to engage in debate.


I can't compromise to your errors.
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#118
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@TheRealNihilist
I agree.  He makes huge claims as if he was saying the sky was blue.  In his mind, these things are obvious to him, so he gets offended when it's not obvious to anyone else.  Much like a stubborn child would do what you don't play pretend with them the way they want you to. 
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#119
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@Mopac
False.  I do not resist education.  I'm the one who specifically said we should learn from each other.  I have always been willing to discuss this rationally but I'm going to die of old age before that happens because you're more concerned with personal attacks and bold statements over evidence. 



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#120
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@Mopac
I don't think I asked you to compromise, so cool I guess? 


So you're argument is that you're smart and everybody else is stupid?  How philosophical of you.  I'm surprised they haven't given you the Nobel Prize yet.   If you're just going to sit here and insult people, then you'll get ghosted out of this forum and you can talk to yourself.  In fact.  I think I'll just block you if you continue to insult people and I would suggest anybody else who you insult to do the same. 


Maybe you'll learn you lesson when nobody wants to hear your rudeness anymore.