not just a bad person problem - a gun problem

Author: n8nrgmi

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#1
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You can tell this is a gun problem, not just a bad person problem as the gun lobby says, also by comparing non-gun homicides of similar countries as the USA, and then adding guns to the mix: non-gun homicides are slightly on the higher side but within normal range, while gun homicides go wildly higher. If this was a bad person problem at its core, there would be a wildly higher amount of non-gun homicides as well, but that's not the case. Included is an article describing this phenomenon and a link with a picture. 

i know thedred and grey have the typical non answers, so i'm curious if anyone else can defend the position that guns don't cause problems and that this is just a bad person problem. 

also here is an overview of some issues in gun control science and policy


#2
Greyparrot
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Gun deaths are overhyped and overblown. Most people are going to die in agony on a hospital bed, not from a quick gunshot wound.
#3
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@Greyparrot
first comment on reddit link

"But Switzerland, poland, czech-republic have less gun laws than the majority of other OECD countries and yet low gun deaths. HOW IS POSSIBLE!? Also, Mexico it's illegal and their gun deaths! But HAU??"

doh!

I'm not aware of any animated guns going around shooting people.  As far as I know and please correct me if I'm wrong, there's a "bad person" using a gun in a bad way therefore it goes back to the "bad person".
#4
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Stop citing culturally homogenous nations since they obviously have less tribal warfare occurring, whether it is with machetes or pistols.
#5
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
So the OP is right, it's not just a bad person problem. It's a diversity of culture problem and tribalism.
#6
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@Greyparrot
when you look at the % of race on same race murders we could almost divide them and do the comparison that way.  It's like the U.S. has 2 countries or more within it's borders.
#7
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@Greyparrot
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@n8nrgmi
So what should the United States do about it?
Anyone can answer it. Just don't want to see people state what is and not say what the United States should do. 
#8
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@TheRealNihilist
Since we cant deport the competing cultures, we can at least keep tribalism from getting exponentially worse by requiring new immigrants to assimilate to America law and speak English for starters.
#9
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@Greyparrot
Since we cant deport the competing cultures
Are you actually being reasonable here?
we can at least keep tribalism from getting exponentially worse
How about instead of blaming it on tribalism why not blame it on what causes violence or more specifically gun violence?
by requiring new immigrants to assimilate to America law and speak English for starters.
I thought tribalism was the problem. In what way does learning English stop tribalism or product enough of an impact to help with the gun problem? 
#10
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@TheRealNihilist
I've said it so many times, search my posts and read them, guess I should make some files I can just copy and paste from, but until I do that, that's all your going to get from me.
#11
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I've said it so many times, search my posts and read them, guess I should make some files I can just copy and paste from, but until I do that, that's all your going to get from me.
You have posted this but incapable of telling me the best solution to the problem?
I find that to be more so you don't want to share what you want to do for the problem instead simply making excuses.
If not why are you not able to post 1 solution as in your best solution to the problem? 
#12
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@TheRealNihilist
sigh, there are many solutions, enforcing current laws being the most obvious.
#13
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
sigh, there are many solutions, enforcing current laws being the most obvious.
Do you have evidence of it not being enforced currently?
I would like to see. 
If you want to know my solution do ask. 
#14
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@TheRealNihilist
Are you denying that America has a tribalism problem?

Are you suggesting tribalism is not the number one cause of violence between one person and another?

What do you think the number one cause of violence between 2 Americans is?
#15
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@Greyparrot
Are you denying that America has a tribalism problem?
Please do tell me what you mean by tribalism because I got this definition and don't see how tribalism is a problem. Isn't having people be tribal over voting and paying taxes a problem?
Tribalism: the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes.
Or maybe you mean it in the derogatory way
Tribalism: the behaviour and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.

Are you suggesting tribalism is not the number one cause of violence between one person and another?
I don't know why you are so fixated on the word tribalism. Why use a word like tribalism that is so vague and lacks depth when more specific terms can actually solve the problem rather being too general?

Do you support an ethnostate? 
#16
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@TheRealNihilist
Lol..why don't you want to talk about violence?

Do you support an ethnostate? 

Absolutely not. Different ethnicities are rarely a cause of violence. Different tribal cultures are of course.

Do you support a nation with a dominant culture encompassing many ethnic groups?
#17
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@Greyparrot
Lol..why don't you want to talk about violence?
Lol look who can't answer simple questions.
Did I say I didn't want to talk about violence?
Just to make sure I am perfectly fine in talking about violence so do me the courtesy of answering the questions I had before. 

#18
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@Greyparrot
Absolutely not. Different ethnicities are rarely a cause of violence. Different tribal cultures are of course.
Any evidence that tribes are not created by ethnicity?
How do you think tribes are created? 
Do you support a nation with a dominant culture encompassing many ethnic groups?
Do you? If you are you support an ethnostate. I don't by the way. 
#19
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@TheRealNihilist
I hate to break it to ya, but you can't have an ethnostate with multiple ethnicities.

What do you think the number one cause of violence between 2 Americans is if not cultural tribalism?

How do you think tribes are created? 

Probably the same way the crips and bloods were created.
#20
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@Greyparrot
I hate to break it to ya, but you can't have an ethnostate with multiple ethnicities.
Ethnostate: a sovereign state of which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group.

Restricted does not mean the United States becomes excluisve to only white people. It can be predominantly a white ethnic population but when there are laws past that restrict people based on ethnicity or give them a way to leave then that would be considered an ethnostate. Germany was an ethnostate even when they were in the process of gassing jews. 

Can you stop with the editing? Please do respond with the entire thing rather then parts of it. I don't see the point of what you are doing. 
What do you think the number one cause of violence between 2 Americans is if not cultural tribalism?
Wealth inequality.
Probably the same way the crips and bloods were created.
Give me a serious answer. 
#21
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@TheRealNihilist
Wealth inequality.

How could you possibly believe this? Violence is RARELY ever perpetrated from a poor person to a rich person. Try again.
#22
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@Greyparrot
How could you possibly believe this? Violence is RARELY ever perpetrated from a poor person to a rich person. Try again.
I will give my evidence and I have yet to see yours. Have any or are you incapable of being rational with your ideas. To have a rational position you require evidence.

Why are you talking about violence from a poor person to a rich person?
Aren't we talking about violence not specific violence that you just came up with? 
#23
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@TheRealNihilist
That link is just noting that the poor are at risk of violence, not that the rich are causing the poor to be violent with each other.

At least you are getting closer to the truth about cultural decay and seeing other people in your neighborhood as less than human, regardless of how much money you may have. It even touches on real cultural differences between cultures that support 2 parent families and education and the cultures that definitely do not support this.
#24
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That link is just noting that the poor are at risk of violence, not that the rich are causing the poor to be violent with each other.
"risk of violence"? It states poor people are more prone to violence than any other class. 
What are you even saying?
"not the rich are causing the poor to be violent" who made that claim? Why are you shoving this in?
At least you are getting closer to the truth about cultural decay and seeing other people in your neighborhood as less than human, regardless of how much money you may have.
How much money? Poor people tend to be more violent than the rest. It is based on wealth. Another general term "culture" as in compassing a lot even wealth. I argue that to be the most important.
It even touches on real cultural differences between cultures that support 2 parent families and education and the cultures that definitely do not support this.
Define culture.
Also give me a type of culture. 

#25
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@TheRealNihilist
How much money? Poor people tend to be more violent than the rest. It is based on wealth. Another general term "culture" as in compassing a lot even wealth. I argue that to be the most important. 

You are making a fallacious assumption here.

Cultures that promote education, marriage before children, and 2 parent households are going to have more wealth in America than other cultures.

You simply cannot "purchase" culture.
It's the reason why most lottery winners go bankrupt after a few years.

And it is also the reason why after 15 trillion dollars and over 50 years of welfare the % of poor has not changed with the war on poverty.

It's not economics. It is culture. And you can't buy culture.
#26
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@Greyparrot
You are making a fallacious assumption here.

I am ignoring this because you like ignoring things I type. When I ignore your claims I do it because your claims are not worth debunking. 
Cultures that promote education, marriage before children, and 2 parent households are going to have more wealth in America than other cultures.
So say it "blacks don't support education, marriage before children and 2 parent households". You have laid it out for yourself so well. 

You simply cannot "purchase" culture.
It's the reason why most lottery winners go bankrupt after a few years.
Define culture. Are you even listening?

And it is also the reason why after 15 trillion dollars and over 50 years of welfare the % of poor has not changed with the war on poverty.
You keep adding things in. Add all of it at once. This is false. If it wasn't for welfare those families would be on the streets. So you want homelessness to increase just so the United States are not spending money on welfare programs. 


#27
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So say it "blacks don't support education, marriage before children and 2 parent households". You have laid it out for yourself so well. 
And there it is. Racebaiting is also a culture, and one that is going to rip the country apart. Was wondering when you were going to cash that card in for the sake of promoting your tribe.

#28
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@Greyparrot
And there it is. Racebaiting is also a culture, and one that is going to rip the country apart. Was wondering when you were going to cash that card in.
So why are you talking just like a conservative?
Who says it is more based on personal responsibility rather then the cards they have been dealt with.

You said they can't "buy" culture how do you propose to fix cultures which you think are doing bad. 
I already know what you are and if you really were good at introspection you would know what you are too. I'll leave out the race when it becomes even more painfully obvious.

Give me an example of a culture. Why aren't you answering this? Is it because it shows the end of your train of thought?

#29
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@TheRealNihilist
In what other instances do you think race nonsense could be inhibiting your learning curve?  Something to consider

#30
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@Snoopy
Inhibiting your learning curve?
Would like to know what you mean there before I answer.