Solipsism.

Author: secularmerlin

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The most annoying thing about the idea that our universe isn't real is that you can't really prove the universe is real without making the supposition that the universe is real. Now I enjoy my life and pursue happiness because I am happy whether the universe is real or not but I just can't shake the realisation that my experience may be completely illusory.

I am a soft solipsist, which is to say that I am willing to accept that my senses reflect reality provincially as a convenience since this tends to make my experience more pleasant than if I were to ignore my perceptions of it.

Can anyone find a way to be certain that anything exists besides your experience in and of itself?
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@secularmerlin
I can.
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@RationalMadman
Without first presupposing that anyone's personal experience more or less reflects any reality?
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@secularmerlin
They would be part of the experience in your logical framework.

It's the starting point you have wrong, the rest can be sound logic based on your wrong starting point.
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@RationalMadman
By starting point do you mean an axiomatic acceptance of your experience as reflecting reality?
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@secularmerlin
Wrong, that would be me being a solipsist.

I believe solipsists are fools, they should deny even themselves due to their starting point. 
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@RationalMadman
Hard solipsism certainly seems nonsensical to me. It only makes sense to use your perceptions as a guide to navigating your experience and that means accepting "reality" on a provisional basis.

I am a soft solipsist and only because I can only be objectively certain of one thing and that is the fact that I am experiencing something even if that something turns out to be totally illusory.

Now if we do accept that our experience reflects reality then we can discern certain facts from these experiences through application of the scientific method but first we must accept reality which my only reason for doing is as a convenience.

For example by accepting our shared reality as real I am able to have this conversation with you.

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@secularmerlin
You seem to think that an idea can only be explored if it's safe enough to believe it.
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@RationalMadman
I'm not sure what you mean by safe in this context.

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@secularmerlin
When you actually want me to answer the question of how someone can end up being solipsist let me know.



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@RationalMadman
It's quite simple. I am a soft solipsist because there is inadequate proof that my personal experience reflects reality in any meaningful way.

It might and I behave as though it does but I can't be objectively certain.
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@secularmerlin
Then what is your question? You clearly understand how they come to their conclusion.
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@RationalMadman
I'm not sure to whom you are referring since I can speak only for myself and how I came to be a soft solipsist.

If you have any objective evidence that our shared experience reflects reality that I do not first have to presuppose our experience dies reflect reality present it please. I would honestly be relieved if I could be sure that I am real.

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@secularmerlin
objective evidence that the objective evidence is not in any provable way real outside of your perception?

xD
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@RationalMadman
Precisely. Do you have such evidence for or against the idea that our universe Is real?
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@secularmerlin
Do you want to know how to think like them or do you only care about evidence which is part of the imaginary realm according to them?
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@RationalMadman
Who are you talking about? Who is they?
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@secularmerlin
solipsists
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@RationalMadman
I do not claim to know what any solipsist thinks or believes other than myself.
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Well, if the universe is defined to be everything that exists, then it tautologically exists.
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@drafterman
Then allow me to rephrase in order to avoid the tautology. Is there any evidence for or against the idea that our perceptions/experiences accurately reflect reality whatever that turns out to be? Indeed is there any objective reason for you to believe in me?
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@secularmerlin
Well, no. It's something we take for granted. I don't even know what evidence of that sort would look like. We would necessarily receive it through our senses. In order for us to trust that evidence, we would first need to trust our senses. To then use it as evidence that our senses are trust worthy is circular.
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@drafterman
Which is exactly why I am a soft solipsist.
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@secularmerlin
if reality is illusory, then reality is merely of the mind -idealism. It's still the case that reality exists, though the nature of it isn't physical. 
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@drafterman
If I take anesthesia, I lose consciousness. I can observe the act of me taking anesthesia, therefore my observations are causally linked to my experiences.

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@Smithereens
Perhaps in the same way that a fictional character is real. 

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@secularmerlin
What does it mean to be fictional? to exist in the mind but not have physical form? Because that's still the same quality of idealistic reality.
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@Smithereens
More or less though I don't claim to be certain that my mind exists.
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@Smithereens
On a purely philosophical level, I just don't think solipsism can be discounted. For example, I posit that you took anesthesia and, at the moment you think it should have worked, a super powerful demon knocked you unconscious with a mind ray.

Or the server holding your mind went down for routine maintenance.

Not to mention the issue of causality. Does it really exist? Or are our experiences merely a succession of unrelated events?
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@drafterman
If our experiences are caused by something, then especially if it's a demon with a mind ray you're essentially suggesting a cause external to my own mind.

(wording edit)