Voting Security Discussion

Author: David

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#31
Vader
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@DebateArt.com
I'm sure you chose your mods wisely and looked into them. But you never know. I don't think Virt or bsh1 are pedos. But giving an IP seems like it could cause issues, especially if things go downhill and bots form
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#32
David
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@Vader
I understand your concerns about that. IP addresses don't tell reveal anything revealing and personal. 

#33
Vader
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@David
"Your IP address is usually based on a real-world location. Google might use your IP address to guess where you are and give you local results."-Google. This is used to track a location, which reveals a persons TRUE place and residence. Then they pin down a person using account info given and stuff like that.

There is also articles how IP is used by hackers to get info personal info: 
https://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/how-to/hackers-use-your-ip-address-hack-your-computer-stop-0130719/

If a breach happens, my info is looked into and basically fucked.

#34
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I'm in a state of shock.
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#35
David
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@Castin
you and I both
#36
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@Vader
if you’re really worried about your IP addressed being hacked, look  
here, that’s literally all anyone would need to do.

***Mod Note***

Link removed
#37
Ramshutu
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Note: that wasn’t a real link - merely illustrating that as the process of loading a website requires you giving that site your up address, getting someone’s IP is as trivial as a link on a website.

#38
Vader
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@Ramshutu
I don't get it
#39
Ramshutu
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@Vader
If someone wanted your IP address, it’s as easy as getting you to click a link - as every time you log into any website of any kind  it gives that site access to your address. To those who could use your IP address to so bad things, it takes about 5 minutes effort to do it.

In terms of data breaches - there’s no info of value on this site is your data of birth and your email address and your password.

I’m all for everyone being paranoid about Cyber Security, the fun you can have with Starbucks wifi and off the shelf network tools is amazing; but it’s important to have the right level of paranoia.

If bsh or virt - or anyone where had the ability and intent to use your IP address for nefarious reasons, not having access to it via a moderator panel is not a big hurdle.


Saying that, the value of seeing the IP address is not that great. It’s either going to show that two people are the same person - or it’s going to show that one person is traced to a TOR exit node/random VPN. Neither of which are improved by letting anyone see it.
#40
DebateArt.com
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@Ramshutu
If someone wanted your IP address, it’s as easy as getting you to click a link - as every time you log into any website of any kind  it gives that site access to your address. To those who could use your IP address to so bad things, it takes about 5 minutes effort to do it.

In terms of data breaches - there’s no info of value on this site is your data of birth and your email address and your password.

I’m all for everyone being paranoid about Cyber Security, the fun you can have with Starbucks wifi and off the shelf network tools is amazing; but it’s important to have the right level of paranoia.

If bsh or virt - or anyone where had the ability and intent to use your IP address for nefarious reasons, not having access to it via a moderator panel is not a big hurdle.


Saying that, the value of seeing the IP address is not that great. It’s either going to show that two people are the same person - or it’s going to show that one person is traced to a TOR exit node/random VPN. Neither of which are improved by letting anyone see it.
That.

But anyway, my preference is to simply automate somehow the process of spotting the double accounts and let the mods know about it, without actually revealing the IPs themselves. 
#41
RationalMadman
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@DebateArt.com
Slowly we are, as a species, letting AI rule us and this habit will lead to our demise if we do not take a stand here and now. Please do not let AI become able to see and think about what the human mods cannot. A robot would skin you alive and rape your children without flinching, Virtuoso and bsh1 of course would not, that's not an exaggeration; you're trusting a psychopathic machine to become the arbiter of justice. Never do this, or our species is doomed.
#42
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@David
I know this sounds crazy, but hear me out.

If you only allow the participants themselves vote on their own debate, then they will focus on convincing their opponent. [LINK]

This solves every possible concern you've mentioned in this post with basically zero policy changes.

It makes duplicate accounts pointless.

It makes vote bombs impossible.

It makes (tedious) vote modding unnecessary.

The other solution would be to have appointed judges (or mods) that have well established records that would be required to vote on all debates (it would be less work than all the tedious vote modding).

My key frustrations with the debate and voting system are that, 

if you choose a judge, the debate doesn't count.

you can spend days working on a debate and then nobody votes on it.

when people do vote on your debate their RFD makes no sense.

when mods review RFD's their opinions are too vague.
#43
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@3RU7AL

This is because he was too stubborn, stupid, corrupt or superior to you at comprehending how you saw the debate and what was right/wrong with it.

See how that works? Exactly, it's called bullshit.
#44
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@RationalMadman
You lost to a guy who has 54 losses, 6 wins and 6 ties as is.
This is because he was too stubborn, stupid, corrupt or superior to you at comprehending how you saw the debate and what was right/wrong with it.
See how that works? Exactly, it's called bullshit.
And you are basing this "attack" on a sample size of exactly 1.

The debate was actually substantive and I learned some new approaches to an argument that is very complex and difficult to explain.

I gave my opponent the win because they provided insight instead of mere combativeness.

You initially offered to participate in a "test debate" but then you inexplicably refused, even though you had nothing to lose.

Does the concept of trying to convince your opponent instead of simply berating them frighten you to the point of running away from a zero risk debate?
#45
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@3RU7AL
At the time, I didn't know that judge debates don't cost elo. Had I known that, I would definitely not have taken it as it would waste my time.
#46
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@3RU7AL
I found your system hilarious and was mocking you in my forum post. You took it literally so I played along. Sample size of 1 is all it takes to test out suicide methods, don't fuck around with this sample size shit I am a poker shark who understands stats and how to utilise them to read trends, patterns and calculated risks to a very high degree.

Sample size of 1 is enough to see something is shit. It is not enough to see something is 'alright' or 'good'.

I know that a sample size of 1 is not enough to see that a tournament player is shit or whatever, I am referring to a technique the player is using being so blatantly shit as all ways of analysing the hand and interactions with others' playstyles shows complete lack of adaptability and GTO comprehension.
#47
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Very unbecoming of a biology teacher. May he find peace in haranguing someone with hundreds of messages via PM on some other site! ;-)
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#48
David
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@Logical-Master
Very unbecoming of a biology teacher. ;-)

Or any teacher for that matter. If he can't cope with this, how the hell does he cope with hundreds of idiot teenagers all day long? 

#49
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@David
Perhaps it was the hundreds of idiot teenagers that drove him to his madness! And boy was he mad. I voted for you on some objective morality debate and he flew into rage about it over the course of nearly a hundred rage fueled PMes! Crazy!
#50
Ramshutu
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@3RU7AL
you can spend days working on a debate and then nobody votes on it.

when people do vote on your debate their RFD makes no sense.

when mods review RFD's their opinions are too vague.
These three  things are literally the reason I attempt to vote on every single debate that there is with as comprehensive an RfD as I can. People may not always agree with how I come down, but I do my absolute best to be as dispassionate and fair as I can.

I was far too pissed off in DDO at every other debate being a 0:0 draw
#51
Ramshutu
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@David
@Logical-Master
PM #1: “Hey, do you have a second to talk about your vote?”
...
...
PM #371: “I can’t believe you ignored the argument about widgets.
Me : “I literally dedicated 50% of my RfD to your widgets.”
PM #372: “You just ignored it”
Me: “Seriously, read the RfD”
PM #373: “But in the part about the widgets you brought in external information”
Me: “You mean the part where your opponent disproved it?”
PM: #374: “yeah, where did the opponent say widgets are too large?”
Me: “in the part where he said “the widgets are too large to fit”.
PM: #375: “But you ignored my whole argument about widgets. That’s not Tabula Rasa man.”
Me: “How are you a teacher?”
^^^This is literally every time I’ve placed a vote against magic.
#52
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@Ramshutu
as the site gets more popular and your time gets less available, RM will always fight to have ramshutu as his dedicated voter, at the sake of all other debates going 0-0 indeed.
#53
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@RationalMadman
I’ve  actually been finding it picking up. There’s same number of debates per day started, but there’s far fewer full forfeits now.

#54
Ramshutu
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@DebateArt.com
Is there any possibility of extending/adding to the information stored - not personal data? I can PM you if so. I have some ideas.
#55
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@Ramshutu
Do not post PMs from other users without their explicit, written consent. It is a violation of the COC. 
#56
Ramshutu
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@bsh1
Those weren’t his actual PMs - those are paraphrasing his general tone.
#57
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@Ramshutu
...and the preferred term now is little people. 

#58
Castin
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@David
I'm in a state of shock.
you and I both
I can't believe he would do this over something so stupid. Why the fuck was this debate worth getting permabanned for. He had to know he wouldn't get away with it.

He always made those gotcha debates, but I believed him when he said it was all a bit of good-humored dickishness. He really gave me some laughs. Remember "praise be unto hydrogen"? Damn, what a waste.

He asked me to vote in the GMO debate, but I said no. I guess he got desperate after he was unable to scare up more honest votes.

#59
Castin
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@RationalMadman
Slowly we are, as a species, letting AI rule us and this habit will lead to our demise if we do not take a stand here and now. Please do not let AI become able to see and think about what the human mods cannot. A robot would skin you alive and rape your children without flinching, Virtuoso and bsh1 of course would not, that's not an exaggeration; you're trusting a psychopathic machine to become the arbiter of justice. Never do this, or our species is doomed.
Ever hear of Air France Flight 447? A commercial plane with 200+ people on board crashed basically because the computer stopped working and the pilot didn't know how to fly without it.

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#60
David
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@Castin
He asked me to vote in the GMO debate, but I said no. I guess he got desperate after he was unable to scare up more honest votes.

Yeah -- there's a reason why I did not vote on that debate. I felt it would be highly inappropriate for me to vote on it.