Are gay jokes discriminatory?

Author: IlDiavolo

Posts

Total: 38
Topic's author
#1
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
In Latin America, gay jokes are very common and it's usually taken as laughing matter. I'm not sure if this is the case in other places, so I would like to know how gay jokes are taken in your country. Do you think it's funny? Discriminatory?

Based on my experience, it's humilliating to treat someone as gay, that is why I used to treat my friends as gays if I wanted to tease them. Now I don't do it any more because I'm grown up (I'm in my thirties).

What about you, dear poster?
#2
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
In the US, the landscape has shifted so much in the last few years that it's hard to know what has changed and what is merely out of fashion.  I'd say 90% of what we call gay jokes aren't really about gay people at all- they are about straight men's fear of being perceived as gay or about straight men's fear of anal penetration and straight men seem to have relaxed tremendously on both of those fronts over the past 30 years.  Most of the remaining jokes depend on gay stereotypes that play as fairly out of date now.  Predictably, the funniest gay jokes are told by and for the gay community.

Two deer walk out of a gay bar.  First deer says to the second deer, "Christ, I must've blown forty bucks in there."
#3
Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
I don't really care if people make jokes like that.  It's in the 1st amendment after all.
Topic's author
#4
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@oromagi
That is exactly what I was talking about, jokes about men getting mistaken for gays. It's funny because nobody wants to be mistaken for gay, which tell us that being gay is still perceived as a wrong thing, or at least as humilliating.

I understand that you don't bother about it because you're gay, but for a heterosexual is rather annoying to be mocked like that. Actually, I still tease my little brother calling him gay, I do it because I know he will get pissed off.

I also see that Hollywood still produces comedy movies doing gay jokes. The question is if people like it, and if it's discriminatory.
Topic's author
#5
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Alec
Why don't you care? Are you gay?
#6
Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
I don't care because it's free speech.  I'm not gay.  I'm not straight either.
#7
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
That is exactly what I was talking about, jokes about men getting mistaken for gays. It's funny because nobody wants to be mistaken for gay, which tell us that being gay is still perceived as a wrong thing, or at least as humilliating.

But its not that funny to call a gay man gay.  Nor is it funny to call a woman gay.  The people who are being laughed at are the straight men because when you call a straight man gay he freaks out.  All humor is rooted in pain, no?  Identify the pain straight men feel when they're called out as gay.

I understand that you don't bother about it because you're gay, but for a heterosexual is rather annoying to be mocked like that.

Ah well, even us homos hate to be mocked.

Actually, I still tease my little brother calling him gay, I do it because I know he will get pissed off.

My theory goes something like this: humans are more bisexual than we admit. When shown a bunch a porn while  hooked up to a bunch of monitors,  the majority of women are just as aroused by the women as they are the men.  Basically, most women are bisexual- men are more convenient for a host of reasons.  Men are much more fetishy but hook some guys up to monitors and show them porn, almost all of them are aroused by another man at some point in the proceedings.  Truly, I'm not sure we really needed a study to tell us that because even the briefest of pornhub surveys reveals that most of straight porn is a little bit gay and some of straight porn is flat out fabulous.  Then you look around at how as soon as women are out of the picture- the army, the navy, prison, priesthood, summer camp, what have you, the guys start messing with other guys to a very surprising degree.  Then you look at all these married guys and religious guys  and athletes and celebrities who it turns out had secret gay lives... it is clear that there's a lot more to gay sex than what happens between gay men.

Seems to me that pretty much all men are somewhere between straight and gay with a heavy majority on the straight side of the field.  So I think straight men panic pretty reliably when they're called  gay because they're thinking about that one gay thing from summer camp or that one wet dream they had about Black Panther- men panic because they're afraid their secret shows.  Studies also find that  how men are told to fuck plays an important part in a man's sense of self-satisfaction while fucking.  Men are taught there's a right way to fuck and a wrong way to fuck and fucking wrong means something important about your virility.  We laugh at straight men panicking because they're adorably, painfully wrong- there is no wrong way to fuck.

I also see that Hollywood still produces comedy movies doing gay jokes.

less true now than ever but true, nevertheless

The question is if people like it, and if it's discriminatory.

Of course.  Most discrimination is popular.  Heck, Populism is the most famous of bigots.  Popularity forgives no injustice.

I don't find most gay jokes offensive because they're not about me, they're about straight men.  The tricky bit is the closeted portion of masculinity, in a range of degrees and varieties.  Calling faggot can be funny but all humor is rooted in pain . Therefore, calling faggot can be unjust when it reinforces shame or a sense of being culled from the tribes of brotherhood.

#8
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
What are gay rights like in Uruguay?  My perception is that you're a fairly freedom loving bunch of folks down there.
#9
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
Well, there you go right there: even Alec ain't entirely straight.
#10
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
Depends on how the joke is used. For example, what did the gay santa say on Christmas?

Hey ho ho.

It isn't an attack, it is a fun laugh. If you use them in a bad way or offensive, then it is wrong
#11
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@Alec

#12
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
Maybe for teens...
#13
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@oromagi
Sometimes the funniest people I meet are gays tbh. 
#14
Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@oromagi
even Alec ain't entirely straight.
Most people are entirely straight however.
#15
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Vader
Sometimes the funniest people I meet are gays tbh. 
naturally
Topic's author
#16
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@oromagi
What are gay rights like in Uruguay?  My perception is that you're a fairly freedom loving bunch of folks down there.
Uruguay is more liberal than you think it is. We're the only country in Latin America where marihuana is legal, and homosexuals can get married. Nevertheless, there are still conservative people that don't like gays, they're very tolerant though. 

At any rate, I just wanted to know how it is in other countries because I see comedy movies, like "The Hot Chick" or "I now pronounce Chuck and Larry", where people laugh at gay things, and even more, they depict that being gay is inmoral, wrong, and not desirable.
Topic's author
#17
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Alec
What are you, then? Asexual?
#18
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
What are gay rights like in Uruguay?  My perception is that you're a fairly freedom loving bunch of folks down there.

Uruguay is more liberal than you think it is. We're the only country in Latin America where marihuana is legal, and homosexuals can get married. Nevertheless, there are still conservative people that don't like gays, they're very tolerant though. 

No, that's pretty much I what I thought.  I often see Uruguay near the top of lists like "most civil liberties" or "most free press."   Good on you.

At any rate, I just wanted to know how it is in other countries because I see comedy movies, like "The Hot Chick" or "I now pronounce Chuck and Larry", where people laugh at gay things, and even more, they depict that being gay is inmoral, wrong, and not desirable.
Sure, but if we let the comedians define our morality we're all going to hell for certain.  I think a movie that got the gayness of straight men fairly truthfully is "Y Tu Mama Tambien"
#19
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Latin America is also home to a terribly racist culture.
Topic's author
#20
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Not as racist as the US.
#21
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
Many Brazilians disagree. In fact, if you are a person of color, the USA is the best place to live hands down than anywhere in Latin America.

Nearly all of the race baiting in contemporary American media actually originates from minority leadership, not whites.


Jussee smollett and Nathan Phillips and BLM can tell you that the USA actually rewards minority races simply for making up fake stories about racism that does not exist.


I assure you that is NOT the case ANYWHERE in Latin America. They don't have to make anything up.

Go ahead and try to pull the race card in a Brazilian Favela. What a joke. America more racist? You obviously don't know what is really going on in the world.
#22
Alec
Alec's avatar
Debates: 42
Posts: 2,472
5
7
11
Alec's avatar
Alec
5
7
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
I think I'm bisexual.  America is not a racist society.
Topic's author
#23
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Many Brazilians disagree. In fact, if you are a person of color, the USA is the best place to live hands down than anywhere in Latin Amer
No way. Eventhough I'm half white, half black, I've been very welcomed in several places of Brasil. Brasil is perhaps the country with less racist cases in Latinamerica.

But Ive got to recognise there is racism in other countries, especially in countries with indígean population. These people are racists with black people, and viceversa. In any case, we don't kill people because of that, like in the US.
Topic's author
#24
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Alec
America is not a racist society.

Lol. Yeah, and lot of black guys are killed on the streets because they are bad.
#25
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo

Plus the fact that you don't know that BLM is a group spreading racial lies shows you actually don't know whats going on in America. Again, there are exactly zero blacks in Brazil that get rewarded for making up racial stories.

When Brazil finally gets to that point where minorities have to manufacture racism, then I will say Brazil is not generally racist.
Topic's author
#26
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Dude, it's not that black Americans make up stories about that. It's just that racism in the US has been so cruel and so humilliating that currently blacks see racism everywhere. They're very picky about that because of the fucking white men.
#27
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,965
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@IlDiavolo
No doubt. And I won't argue that America at one time was far, far more racist than anywhere in Latin America, but today is an entirely different story.
#28
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
They are killed by their own kind
#29
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
Uruguay is more liberal than you think it is. We're the only country in Latin America where marihuana is legal, and homosexuals can get married. Nevertheless, there are still conservative people that don't like gays, they're very tolerant thoug
Just like in america basically
#30
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
-->
@IlDiavolo
Gays generally are funnier. They don't depict it as bad, but a lot of gay people I know are very funny. It isn't a bad thing