👊🇺🇲🔥leaks

Author: WyIted

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WyIted
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You know what those emojis mean 


It's time to talk about it. A Jewish journalist decided to leak classified details of a chat he was accidentally included in. 

If I was in the chat I personally would have immediately informed them that they are sharing sensitive information with me but I guess Goldberg doesn't care or the leak was intentional just for funsies since nothing really incriminating was in the leaks. 

Or the leaks are fake which is also possible. Anyway the chat took place on signal which is secure and I am sure that high level politicians like this have their phones remote wiped and locked down in the event the phones are lost or stolen so the only security slip was including a journalist in the chat but it's not that insecure since the guy probably doesn't want to lose access by leaking the. Chat prior to the operation mentioned. 

Anyway thought I would start the thread to see everyone's thoughts .
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I guess one concern is the team is operating a bit around Trump but I think it's understood this term that Trump is really there just to be a tie breaker for warring factions of the party and to rubber stamp stuff from the various factions when they agree. The tech faction has no interest in foreign policy except when it comes to acquiring and controlling rare minerals to keep a competitive edge in Artificial intelligence.
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@WyIted
So military documents were leaked, and it wasn’t the War Thunder community. I’m surprised
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Also I’m not paying to read all that. Someone who did can give the people of this thread a summary
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Just fire Michael Waltz and be done with it
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If I was an enemy of the USA, I would assume that this is what the US military WANTED me to believe. Of course it does seem possible to overestimate people these days...
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@ADreamOfLiberty
If I was an enemy of the USA, I would assume that this is what the US military WANTED me to believe. Of course it does seem possible to overestimate people these days...
It would make sense to me for the government to be fake leaking things they want the enemy to believe. I get that we don't really expect competence from the government, but I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up more as a possibility. Of course, that would assume the govt is willing to take a political loss and that they planned ahead, which would be rather out of character.
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@WyIted
A Jewish journalist decided to leak classified details of a chat he was accidentally included in.
And a moronic bigot decided to fabricate reported details of an article he brazenly linked in the same post.

Goldberg's article didn't include one classified detail from the chats - not a single one. I know this for a fact, because I read the report - which you were kind enough to link in your post. (Thanks for that, BTW.) So, I'm trying to figure out whether it's a matter of unintelligent reading comprehension on your part, or that you just didn't bother reading the article - linked right there in your post - at all.

One thing is for sure, though. While Goldberg didn't Leak any classified details, someone else in this case did. The United States Secretary of Defence, of all people, leaked the most highly classified details possible (full military strike plans) -  potentially putting troops in harm's way.  It is the height of irony!

The idea that you would inform them that they shared sensitive information with you is hilarious. What good is that supposed to do? You would have no way to tell them what they were doing until they had already done it. That's how time works, you see. First comes one thing, and then, only after that thing, comes another thing.  Your frantic apologia song and dance is fooling nobody. 

Ignorance is not a virtue.
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@J.A.Prufrock
Goldberg's article didn't include one classified detail from the chats - not a single one. I know this for a fact, because I read the report
No they aren't classified now it's all public knowledge the conversation happened before the actual strikes though 

The United States Secretary of Defence, of all people, leaked the most highly classified details possible (full military strike plans) -  potentially putting troops in harm's way.  It is the height of irony!
Everyone in that chat made an error for not reading the included names. Walz made the biggest error by allowing an unauthorized Jew into the chat though.

The idea that you would inform them that they shared sensitive information with you is hilarious. What good is that supposed to do? You would have no way to tell them what they were doing until they had already done it
I am pretty sure this conversation took hours or days not minutes and if I was in the chat after I changed my name to Donald Trump in the chat and ordered them to nuke Israel, assuming they didn't nuke Israel I would let them know they made a mistake so they would remove me, but yes as a journalist I would still report on their fuck up after the strikes occurred. 

Your frantic apologia song and dance is fooling nobody. 
Bro that sounds faggy as fuck. You are sus.
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@ILikePie5
What do you think of my plan
 If accidentally included in the texts I would change my name to Donald Trump and order nukes on television Aviv?

Also you are right. Waltz should be fired. What is he doing with Goldberg on his contact list on signal anyway?

Was he already leaking information to him prior?
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@Savant
Nothing in that text hurt the United states. I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional and really meant to be seen by the Europeans. Vance statement that he hates to bail out Europe again seems planted. That's not how people normally talk behind the scenes. Most professionals would order the attack and not mention they hated the europoors needing bailed out. Maybe they would mention it in public after but not in private. 

Essentially either waltz is a traitor who needs fired or this was intentional because they were confident in Goldbergs journalistic integrity to wait for the attack before publishing as a message to Europoors
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@J.A.Prufrock
potentially putting troops in harm's way.  It is the height of irony!
There are multiple instances where America purposefully baited international conflicts. It's more predictable than ironic.
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@WyIted
It was just a simple mistake, Hegseth meant to add Putin to the chat, but he was drunk and so, oops. 
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@Sidewalker
So this went off without approval from the big guy? WTF?
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It was just a simple mistake, Hegseth meant to add Putin to the chat, but he was drunk and so, oops. 
He left Trump out so he wasn’t that drunk.
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@WyIted
Nothing in that text hurt the United states.
I don’t love this argument. The fact remains that classified information on military operations went out through an unsecured app and, at minimum, that information was delivered to a journalist and received on an unsecured and unauthorized device. The fact that it didn’t interfere with the operation and hasn’t had knock-on effects yet only tells us that it could have been worse.

Essentially either waltz is a traitor who needs fired or this was intentional because they were confident in Goldbergs journalistic integrity to wait for the attack before publishing as a message to Europoors
I don’t love this argument, either. If this was the actual aim, then the fact remains that it imparts a common perception of our intelligence that is negative. Honestly, it might be worse to know that the information was released on purpose, since that suggests an active rather than an accidental willingness to undermine the security we normally place on classified information regarding military engagements and suggests there will be more to come. If they drilled the hole in the dam on purpose, then it’s not a one-time “we’ll fix this” situation - more holes are coming, and that’s decidedly bad.
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@whiteflame
Nothing in that text hurt the United states.
I don’t love this argument. The fact remains that classified information on military operations went out through an unsecured app
Was is insecure?

I once had an interview for a government job where they were trying to make backup location programs using Java on Android devices.

I would trust open source and endorsed by the crypto community more than anything built by the military industrial complex.


It's not the app's fault if you invite blabbing journalists.


If they drilled the hole in the dam on purpose, then it’s not a one-time “we’ll fix this” situation - more holes are coming, and that’s decidedly bad.
That is an incorrect analogy. Holes in dams cause bigger holes (and if not then what point were you making?).

Yet if this was an intentional "leak" that in no way implies that further leaks (if any) are real.

In other words given intentionality then the fact that no operations were compromised must be seen as intentional too, perhaps explaining the short timeline. i.e. they leaked X when they knew there was no time to prevent X from happening.


In a serious intelligence conflict (with cunning players) all governments would be leaking false or inconsequential true information all the time. If you didn't then the enemy would know that those few leaks which remain were likely true.

It's like jamming, prevent them from identifying the true signal by disguising it among the false/useless ones.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It's like jamming, prevent them from identifying the true signal by disguising it among the false/useless ones.
There's probably a ton of honeypot stings being set up as well. The real game behind closed doors will be forever unknowable.
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@whiteflame
I don’t love this argument. The fact remains that classified information on military operations went out through an unsecured app
Signal is pretty locked down. Even state level actors have not been able to penetrate it, which is why government officials have been told to use it in lieu of text messages.

that information was delivered to a journalist and received on an unsecured and unauthorized device. 
That's fair but honestly journalists should have phones that are resilient to exploitation by being password protected, encrypted and enabled with remote wiped ability to protect whistle blowers who would be tracked by state level threat actors. 

I have nothing to add to anything else you said. Those seem like fair criticisms. I kind of trust them to be playing chess but the criticisms are fair
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@WyIted
Was is insecure?
By the usual standards of classified military information, not just for basic text messaging or for grunt level communication, yes, it's insecure.

"The app’s security is viewed as fairly strong due to its robust privacy features and minimal data collection, as well as default end-to-end encryption of all messages and voice calls. The app also includes a function that deletes all messages from a conversation within a set time frame, adding an additional layer of data protection. But experts agree that it shouldn’t be used by government officials as an alternative to communicating through more secure, sanctioned government communications — which Signal is not.

...members of Trump’s Cabinet — including the vice president, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, and Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, among others — were likely using personal devices, since in most cases, Signal cannot be downloaded onto official federal devices. This alone creates a host of cybersecurity issues.

...One of the biggest risks of using Signal is where the data can be stored.

'People can link Signal messaging to a desktop application.' he said. 'This means that Signal data is being delivered to potentially multiple desktop and laptop computers where it isn’t being stored in a phone’s secure enclave. That data is then at risk from commodity malware on the system.'"


So much as you might view this app as sufficiently trustworthy, and much as it is significantly better than a lot of other communication programs, it's not anywhere near the standard that is allowed for these kinds of discussions.

That is an incorrect analogy. Holes in dams cause bigger holes (and if not then what point were you making?).
Not what I was implying. My point was as I said it: an active willingness to make one hole in the structure (or, in this case, release more classified military information) suggests a willingness to keep doing so. This was a response to the point that they might be doing this intentionally. If so, I don't understand why anyone would assume that this is the only time they would ever engage in this.

In other words given intentionality then the fact that no operations were compromised must be seen as intentional too, perhaps explaining the short timeline. i.e. they leaked X when they knew there was no time to prevent X from happening.
So because nothing interfered with the operation, nothing could have interfered with it and it was never dangerous. Maybe. Doesn't scream "secure" to me when there's even a chance of interference or a journalist leaking pertinent information that might become important in future engagements.

In a serious intelligence conflict (with cunning players) all governments would be leaking false or inconsequential true information all the time. If you didn't then the enemy would know that those few leaks which remain were likely true.

It's like jamming, prevent them from identifying the true signal by disguising it among the false/useless ones.
My problem with this is what we know it wasn't false and we don't know if it was useless. If you want to argue that it's beneficial to do this, fine, but you're assuming a lot about how important that information was. Beyond that, I don't think it's valuable to the government to set a standard that there are active leaks in the system by creating new holes in it. Doesn't seem like that's necessary to throw other governments off the scent of other relevant information and it makes our intelligence apparatus look poorly managed, which is a problem when that's how everyone (including your own people and allies) perceive it.
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@WyIted
Signal is pretty locked down. Even state level actors have not been able to penetrate it, which is why government officials have been told to use it in lieu of text messages.
See above, I gave ADOL a response on this.

That's fair but honestly journalists should have phones that are resilient to exploitation by being password protected, encrypted and enabled with remote wiped ability to protect whistle blowers who would be tracked by state level threat actors. 
By necessity, since journalists don't have the infrastructure of the US government, they're not going to have access to all the same tools and personnel required to ensure that their phones are absolutely impregnable. The resources just aren't that broadly available. I understand that it would be optimal, but it's not at all likely in an era where journalists and the organizations behind them are struggling financially.

I have nothing to add to anything else you said. Those seem like fair criticisms. I kind of trust them to be playing chess but the criticisms are fair
Appreciate that.
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@whiteflame
What do you think of the possibility of a honeypot? Assuming the info wasn't actually dangerous.
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@whiteflame
There is a myth that the government has stronger encrypted apps than what they actually do. They don't have anything stronger than signal. Open source is always going to be stronger than anything proprietary because literally millions of people are looking for exploits in open source software. 

Why don't you ask AI for an alternative to Signal for group chat that is stronger. Matthew crooks was using similar messaging apps probably to communicate with foreign adversaries and the best hackers in the world. The ones who work for the United States government are unable to crack those messaging apps to see what or who Matthew crooks was communicating with. 

The apps he used BTW are probably less secure than signal
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@Greyparrot
What do you think of the possibility of a honeypot? Assuming the info wasn't actually dangerous.
So they openly invited a journalist to join the honeypot? Isn't the whole point that cybercriminals and hackers are supposed to find their way in so they can be entrapped by it? Were they trying to entrap Jeffrey Goldberg?

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@WyIted
There is a myth that the government has stronger encrypted apps than what they actually do. They don't have anything stronger than signal. Open source is always going to be stronger than anything proprietary because literally millions of people are looking for exploits in open source software. 
I mean... according to literally every source I can find on the subject, they do have messaging apps that are more secure than Signal. I don't have insider information on the subject, but the link above and several others I found make clear that Signal is far less secure than systems that they have in place. As for the argument that open source is always going to be stronger than anything proprietary, I'd say that's a stretch at best, especially since we know this data is exploitable. You can argue that it shouldn't be, but it is.

Why don't you ask AI for an alternative to Signal for group chat that is stronger. Matthew crooks was using similar messaging apps probably to communicate with foreign adversaries and the best hackers in the world. The ones who work for the United States government are unable to crack those messaging apps to see what or who Matthew crooks was communicating with. 

The apps he used BTW are probably less secure than signal
I don't know why I'd do this or why I should trust the result that AI spits out.

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@whiteflame
By necessity, since journalists don't have the infrastructure of the US government, they're not going to have access to all the same tools and personnel required to ensure that their phones are absolutely impregnable. The resources just aren't that broadly available. I
They actually are. Journalists can have access to the same stuff. I would say the government can hack more things than a civilian but as far as secure communication is concerned. I can secure my communications as well as the government can. 

There is a reason the Europeans are trying to ban cryptography. They don't like the fact we can secure communication and they can't penetrate it.
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@WyIted
They actually are. Journalists can have access to the same stuff. I would say the government can hack more things than a civilian but as far as secure communication is concerned. I can secure my communications as well as the government can. 
WyIted, this is just blatantly false. Journalists do not have security details that travel with them, they don't have anyone to constantly check their devices for the associated malware that can cause these leaks, nor trained professionals who can prevent and/or address hacks. That's part of the reason that journalists aren't given access to classified information. You can have the best phone with the best security program imaginable and it still can get broken into by someone with the means and desire to do so if you don't have the support you need to prevent it.

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@whiteflame
I mean... according to literally every source I can find on the subject, they do have messaging apps that are more secure than Signal.
You can make email more secure but nobody can crack signal not even state level actors. 

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@whiteflame
You are essentially supposed to have 2 separate Operating systems on the phone. One for secure communication and one that's less locked down than normal. Now I can't imagine that big publications don't have cyber security professionals on stand by given that if they leak information from people in vulnerable locations. Such as whistleblowers in the Iranian government, it can literally cause their sources to be killed.
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@WyIted
You can make email more secure but nobody can crack signal not even state level actors. 
Literally explained how people can crack Signal right now.

"'People can link Signal messaging to a desktop application.' he said. 'This means that Signal data is being delivered to potentially multiple desktop and laptop computers where it isn’t being stored in a phone’s secure enclave. That data is then at risk from commodity malware on the system.'"