war propaganda 101
In other developments, war stocks have dropped 5% after Hitler floated the idea of cutting military spending in half.
"Ukraine will win!"
Posts
Total:
19
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@Greyparrot
Ukraine supports Israel. So cant say I feel too bad about what Putin did to them. I dont like Putin, but lets not pretend that Ukraine is some decent country worth defending. They want to be both nazi supporters in ww2 and Israel supporters now. They should make up their mind.
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@Best.Korea
I'm pretty sure I was the only one that saw through the war propaganda on this site 2 years ago.
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@Greyparrot
Yes. Ukraine lost. It wasnt so clear back then when they claimed they were winning every battle, but now its pretty obvious that even with latest US and European weapons, Ukrainians are losers. They will be lucky if they keep what they have now.
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@Best.Korea
when they claimed
Yes, the "they" people laugh at as if it were a "conspiracy theory"
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@Best.Korea
Yes. Ukraine lost. It wasnt so clear back then when they claimed they were winning every battle, but now it’s pretty obvious that even with latest US and European weapons, Ukrainians are losers. They will be lucky if they keep what they have now.
If the Russians were winning Trump would not interfere.
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@Shila
If the Russians were winning Trump would not interfere.
Putin seemed very happy and smiling when he met Trump. On the other hand, Zelensky seemed sad and upset. I guess reality punched him in the face, and then it kept punching him.
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@Best.Korea
If the Russians were winning Trump would not interfere.Putin seemed very happy and smiling when he met Trump. On the other hand, Zelensky seemed sad and upset. I guess reality punched him in the face, and then it kept punching him.
Putin was happy Trump would cut aid to Ukraine thus giving Russia the edge.
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@Greyparrot
Ukraine might lose now. But it didn't have to be this way.
4 days before Trump's inauguration, it was reported that Ukraine's army had swelled to a total size of 880,000 men, facing down a force of 600,000 Russians.
This is after nearly 3 years of fighting. Rather than running out of men any day now, as armchair experts have been predicting for the last year or two, Ukraine's army is bigger than it's ever been. And they haven't even started drafting their women yet.
Rather than turning into a unstoppable military juggernaut a la the Soviet Union in WW2, like all the armchair experts predicted at the war's onsest, after three years of mobilizing its economy for war Russia is still unable to break the deadlock. This is increasingly a war of guys riding in the back of pickups (or literal donkeys) and being blown to smithereens by drones. They're still importing shells from North Korea, and outsourcing North Korean troops to fill their own manpower shortages. Since, you know, at some point they were going to run out of prisoners who could be goaded to throw themselves into a meat grinder willingly.
In 2024, they seized 1,600 square miles of territory in Ukraine. Which sounds impressive, but remember that Ukraine is 233,000 square miles in size. Assuming 20% of Ukraine's land has been taken to date, Ukraine could sustainably continue to give up land and bleed the enemy at this pace for the next century. America gave up and went home in Vietnam after 8 years. So did the Soviets in Afghanistan after 9 years. Mind you, when a country stops fighting and goes home, all of its territorial gains become moot overnight. The Ukrainians know this.
All they need is for us to stay in their corner. Another year or two of this and Putin might finally blink.
When he's losing 200-250 men a day (and those are just the dead), eventually he'll lose enough men that he either loses the war or has to resort to dragging posh youths off the streets of St. Petersburg and into boot camp. And what then? How long and how far could the Russian public's apathy outweigh its basic self-interest?
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@Swagnarok
Mmm...sweet sweet war propaganda. Makes for fun armchair posts, but it doesn't actually win wars.
Another year or two of this and Putin might finally blink.
I'm sure Raytheon was hoping for 10 years at least.
You're right, by the way. "Ukraine will win the war" is hopeful thinking. But that mantra, repeated over and over, inspired the US and Europe for 3 years to give Ukraine what it needed to not lose. What if the West called Ukraine hopeless in March 2022 and did nothing? It would've definitely been hopeless then, right?
It wasn't a lie or a prophetic prediction. It was and is a rallying cry; or, a declaration that you'll do what it takes to build the future you want to see.
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@Swagnarok
inspired the US and Europe for 3 years to give Ukraine what it needed to not lose.
What would you consider "not losing"
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@Greyparrot
80% of the country's land, and around 90% of its population, is still independent from Russia. If we keep supplying them, that'll most likely still be true one year from now.
Also, I said "not lose". This is distinct from "not losing", which very gradually conceding territory doesn't look like but it also doesn't speak to what the battlefield will look like in the future.
Russia is, again, losing soldiers faster than Ukraine, with possibly 2x as many dead. And while Russia has a much bigger population, Putin doesn't want to make this into a war of mass conscription, since he doesn't know if the Russian public has the stomach for that, whereas the Ukrainians have already made that sacrifice and are prepared to keep doing so.
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@Swagnarok
Sorry...what does " to not lose." look like?
What's that condition look like?
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@Greyparrot
Ukraine has lost when the foreign invaders conquer all or most of the country, and have brought all or most of the Ukrainian populace under their heel. Or, more modestly, when Ukraine signs a treaty formally renouncing/de facto relinquishing its sovereignty over the occupied territories with zero credible assurances that Russia won't attack again in the future.
Ukraine has not lost until something to the above effect happens.
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@Swagnarok
Or, more modestly, when Ukraine signs a treaty formally renouncing/de facto relinquishing its sovereignty over the occupied territories with zero credible assurances that Russia won't attack again in the future.
How about a more realistic predictable outcome (predicted for over 2 years by many)
Ukraine gives up the Russian speaking Donbas and gets some protective assurances from Europe. Will that be "not to lose"?
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@Greyparrot
Ukraine gives up the Russian speaking Donbas and gets some protective assurances from Europe. Will that be "not to lose"?
It would be at least a partial loss, yes. I'm also not sure if a few hundred or even a few thousand boy-faced Belgian peacekeepers with sparkly rifles would pose a credible deterrent to Russia. Any serious proposal would have to involve the Americans, but Trump breaks deals on a whim and I wouldn't blame Zelensky for not trusting us at the moment.
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@Swagnarok
First off, Zelensky's gonna be replaced asap, especially after he declared martial law and suspended elections. Then had near a million Ukrainians killed or fled the country permanently with nothing to show for it.
Secondly, All of the EU countries bordering Ukraine plus Germany is more than enough to keep Russia in check, especially if they double the GDP contribution to military like they promised in 2016.
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@Swagnarok
1,600 square miles of territory in Ukraine. Which sounds impressive, but remember that Ukraine is 233,000 square miles in size.
I don't think they want to hold Ukraine. I think they just want the Donetsk region TBH. It seems like a strategic thing to hold those resources and they are probably struggling to pull out because the Russian leaders want to leave with their egos in tact, but I don't think the plan was ever to hold all of the Ukraine