Is taxation theft?

Author: Mall
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#1
Mall
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A lively heated topic unforseen...


Which you can view by going to website address:


Are paying taxes theft from your government?

Does penalty or consequences constitute theft?

Is penalty for not paying your bill for the service you receive and use mean theft once you pay what you owe?

Give us your thoughts and questions below.

#2
Best.Korea
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@Mall
Sure its theft.

If government can just take any amount of money it wants from you, then how do you even have a right to property?
#3
n8nrgim
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When rich people hoard wealth, that's also theft. They r using the nation's laws and police and military to take all they can. Just because they usually use legal means doesn't mean it's moral. It's basically hoarding resources at gun point. 

Violence from both ends, is inherent in the system. 
#4
Savant
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@n8nrgim
hoarding resources at gun point
So, owning things?
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Shila
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@Mall
Give us your thoughts and questions below.
Owning things after they are paid for is not theft. Nor is paying your taxes theft.

#6
cristo71
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@Mall
This is where I earn the ire of the libertarians:

Theft is the unlawful seizure of money and property. Our republic has deemed this seizure as lawful within certain limits. So, taxation is not theft. We have duly elected representatives in government who lobby on our behalf to set these limits and to decide how the tax revenue is spent. Without taxation, a nation would become unsustainable even in the short term.

Now, I’m not a huge fan of income tax, but our government was able to amend the Constitution to allow such a tax. Income tax is hardly unique to the USA, but I have heard from more than one economist that a progressive consumption tax (a higher percentage of tax as the product gets more expensive) would be the ideal.

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FLRW
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Tesla, the most valuable automaker in the world valued at over $1 trillion, did not pay any federal income tax last year.
Tesla’s annual financial report, released this morning, shows the company enjoyed $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 on which it reports precisely zero current federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million. That comes to a three-year federal tax rate of just 0.4 percent – more than 50 times less than the statutory corporate tax rate of 21 percent.
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@FLRW
Tesla, the most valuable automaker in the world valued at over $1 trillion, did not pay any federal income tax last year.
Tesla’s annual financial report, released this morning, shows the company enjoyed $2.3 billion of U.S. income in 2024 on which it reports precisely zero current federal income tax. Over the past three years, the Elon Musk-led company reports $10.8 billion of U.S. income on which its current federal tax was just $48 million. That comes to a three-year federal tax rate of just 0.4 percent – more than 50 times less than the statutory corporate tax rate of 21 percent.
No wonder he looks so happy on stage. No taxes and no alimony payments.
#9
n8nrgim
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a progressive consumption tax (a higher percentage of tax as the product gets more expensive) would be the ideal.
thats not a bad idea.

we might also be able to tax higher earners more for the same resources as lower earners.
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n8nrgim
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I personally think we should tax the rich for consumption with their income. the rich borrow money at 1 percent, instead of taking from their investments and incurring a capital gain tax. they escape taxes that way. the rich should pay fifty percent of everything they borrow for personal use, or the highest bracket tax. otherwise the rich will keep escaping paying taxes. 

I also think the rich should pay a yearly two percent tax on their wealth. I doubt too many rich people will leave the country with just a two percent wealth tax. this was Elizabeth warren's idea which I didn't support at first but then I realized might be doable enough. 

ideally we'd also tax their unrealized capital gains at death, cause as it is now they escape taxation their whole life and face meager estate taxes (stupid conservatives call it double taxation but it's better to tax you when you die than when you're alive plus they do deserve to get taxed on their gains, so at least tax their unrealized gains). the problem is they might use trusts or move to another country to escape taxation so this tax might not work. we could tax them before they leave, but then they'd live the rest of their life untaxed when their wealth grows more. 
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@n8nrgim
I personally think we should tax the rich for consumption with their income. the rich borrow money at 1 percent, instead of taking from their investments and incurring a capital gain tax. they escape taxes that way. the rich should pay fifty percent of everything they borrow for personal use, or the highest bracket tax. otherwise the rich will keep escaping paying taxes. 
You have been influenced by Al Qaeda.
#12
zedvictor4
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@Mall
It's all conceptual.

Anything can be anything.
#13
n8nrgim
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here is a map that shows how wealth is divided. If wealth were like the land in the USA.
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@Savant
yes but it's more than that. it's undue influence in acquiring it and undue influence in maintaining it. look at the wealth distribution map in my last post. if we were cavemen and 40 percent of Americans owned that small dot and 1 percent owned a quarter of the land, don't you think the cavemen would try to take from the one percent to meet their basic needs? and wouldn't they be justified? the way it's becoming, poorer americans can barely survive let alone get ahead. they are like serfs from olden days. if poor cavemen couldn't even support themselves with their means of getting resources, don't you think ti's moral to go after the ones with the overabundance? 
#15
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@n8nrgim
undue influence
Undue why?

don't you think the cavemen would try to take from the one percent to meet their basic needs?
Not if they don't want to destabilize the economy.

the way it's becoming, poorer americans can barely survive let alone get ahead
How are they worse off now than 50 years ago? Or any earlier time in history?
#16
WyIted
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Why are you linking to you channel so I have to dig through videos instead of to the video?

Also start mentioning debate art.com at the beginning of videos or as president of the site or I will consider these spam threads and take the appropriate actions that are within my abilities as president
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#17
Mall
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@Best.Korea
Check out the debate.
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@cristo71
Correct. Highlighted in the discussion how you hire your government to work for you . You paying you paying your employee is not stealing but would be stealing is refusing to pay .
#19
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@Mall
how you hire your government to work for you
So far the government has just worked against me.

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#20
Mall
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@WyIted
It's not just the video, the whole channel is being promoted for free content access. There are multiple topics, something everybody can view, comment, ask questions on.

No harm and you know it. Don't look for an excuse to be hostile with me. We can get along as fellow comrades, share and discuss .

Peace be.
#21
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Don't you pay attention to lib talking points or the news? The cost of living is way out of whack. The average house now is 400k, whereas in the 70s it was way less even after inflation. Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand, cause they privatized colleges. Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general. The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
#22
Savant
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@n8nrgim
The cost of living is way out of whack.
Standard of living has increased.

The average house now is 400k
That's because they've gotten bigger.

Education costs tens of thousands when before it's a few hundred or thousand
Because it leads to higher pay.

The minimum wage in the 70s was 15 bucks after inflation and is only 7 and change now. Wages just tread water and have barely gone up after inflation over decades.
Real compensation has increased, matching the rise in productivity.

Healthcare was was less now it's 18% of our gdp, which also isn't competitive with other countries who spend half as much and cover everyone with less wait times and better in general.
Life expectancy has continued to rise.
#23
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#24
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@Mall
I know I was just frustrated because I struggled to find the video
#25
Shila
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@Savant
Life expectancy has continued to rise.
You have a very positive attitude on life.