If billionaires hiring workers is exploiting them, then surely not hiring them is good.

Author: Savant

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Savant
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Jeff Bezos probably hires more people than you. Either that's a good thing or a bad thing. Many would say it's a bad thing, because hiring is exploitation and theft. But if that's the case, then we should be glad whenever Amazon fires people, because it means Bezos is becoming more similar to you (who doesn't hire as many people as Bezos and is therefore morally superior). Same deal with immigration. Companies hiring foreigners is bad because hiring them is exploiting them. But it's also bad because it means not hiring domestic workers. Just a minute ago, billionaires hiring people was exploitation and bad, so isn't hiring domestic workers a bad thing? We should be glad that they do less of that. If wages are slavery, then firing workers is like freeing slaves. Maybe billionaires shouldn't be hiring anyone. But that's a bad thing too, because whenever they buy robots to replace workers, we get mad about automation replacing labor.

Maybe employers have an obligation to hire people and give them a wage above some threshold, but then shouldn't this standard apply to everyone? Most people could start businesses and pay workers, but they choose not to. I don't see how that's more defensible than an employer not hiring workers.
Lemming
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Perhaps my not creating jobs for people,
Could be compared to my not helping people.

While hiring people and abusing them,
Could be compared to harming them.

Hiring people and not abusing them,
Could be compared to helping them.

Just because North Korea 'employs more people than I do,
Does not make North Korea 'better than me. . . I think.

I don't think being an employer automatically puts one in the positives of moral achievements.
. . .

But I've got my own life to lead, if I am struggling to make it in life, why should I have to help people?
Why even should someone rich have to help people?
I think we shouldn't 'harm people, but am not sure that not helping, is the same as actively harming.
. .
If we see a child fall in a well, I think we should help the child,
But to not help, is not 'quite the same as murder.
But I admit similar vein.

"In Oregon, there is no law requiring bystanders to render first aid in emergency situations."

I think parents who let their children die, are held more accountable, as it is a charge they took upon themselves.
. . .

It is also why I lean towards a distinction between Civilian and Citizen in a hypothetical nation,
Responsibility, I often prefer as something we 'choose, we commit to,
Not some bull forced pledge of allegiance in school, before understanding.

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@Lemming
@Savant
One gets up in the morning, and between then and bedtime in order to survive, one does stuff.

Now...If there were 8.2 billionaires, who are you going to get to do what?
Lemming
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@zedvictor4
Well, maybe I employ someone as an employer, by them employing me to employ them to employ me to. . .
. . . Heh.
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@Lemming
Perhaps my not creating jobs for people,
Could be compared to my not helping people.
In some cases, it's seen as harming people, which doesn't make much sense if creating jobs is seen as harming them also.

Just because North Korea 'employs more people than I do,
Does not make North Korea 'better than me. . . I think.
I wouldn't say North Korea hiring people is bad. I'd say North Korea killing people is bad. If North Korea stopped killing people, I wouldn't complain.
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@Savant
Let's say American slavery then, no killing.
Or Company Stores that try to wrest back every cent of pay they give their workers. No 'outright slavery there.

If the employer puts you into a bad situation, where you must accept servitude to a bad master or starve, I think it is bad.
. . .

Usually cutting someone with a knife is harming them.
It can be good if it is a doctor.
It can be bad if the doctor nudged you into the situation that caused your injury.

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@Lemming
Let's say American slavery then
Freeing slaves is good. If employment is slavery, then layoffs shouldn't be widely criticized.

It can be bad if the doctor nudged you into the situation that caused your injury.
Employers don't cause scarcity, which is the situation that requires people to get a job. Capitalism tends to reduce scarcity.
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@Savant
The point I'm trying to make, is I think the issue is grayer than you are portraying it.
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@Lemming
That's probably true, but many of the mainstream criticisms I see aren't gray, they're very harsh. It's possible that many people hold nuanced views that they hyperbolize when expressing anger, but I can only respond to what they say, not what's inside their head.
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@Savant
whenever they buy robots to replace workers, we get mad about automation replacing labor
Robots replacing workers is a true path to freedom. Then worker doesnt have to work and with robots doing all the work, population can actually spend more time improving themselves.

Those who oppose to progress dont have high historical success rate.

However, those people who complain about robots are just people who complain about everything. You cant make sense out of their complaining because they dont have a goal. The goal is just to present everything as bad.
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@Best.Korea
However, those people who complain about robots are just people who complain about everything. You cant make sense out of their complaining because they dont have a goal. The goal is just to present everything as bad.
Robots are taking away jobs from human workers. It is taking away the livelihood of unemployed workers.
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@Shila
Robots are taking away jobs from human workers. It is taking away the livelihood of unemployed workers.
Maybe in pure capitalism.

In government managed economy, the ones who own robots are taxed and money is given to unemployed workers. So essentially, robots produce things for everyone, even those who dont work.
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@Best.Korea
Robots are taking away jobs from human workers. It is taking away the livelihood of unemployed workers.
Maybe in pure capitalism.

In government managed economy, the ones who own robots are taxed and money is given to
Robots are more noble creatures than humans. And they cannot be tempted by the tree of knowledge.
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Robots are more noble creatures than humans. And they cannot be tempted by the tree of knowledge
Says the robot.
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Yes, with my pfp, I'm just trying to attract more women (not bots) to the site.
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@Shila
Robots are more noble creatures than humans.
Thats hard to believe in, since humans program robots. The creation is rarely better than the creator. If creator sucks, its kinda expected that creation sucks too.
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Ideally we go back to what worked prior to economic interventionism that occurred in the early 1900s. We all basically become independent business owners
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@WyIted
We all basically become independent business owners
Government created a system in which small buisness owners are at a great disadvantage.

Resources to start and run a buisness cost bunch of money, so less people are able to start their own buisnesses.

In the past, almost everyone had a private small buisness, but right now small buisnesses suffer from "triple tax". You pay taxes for resources and input of buisness. You pay taxes on the output of buisness. And finally, when you earn money from buisness for yourself, you pay taxes again on things you buy.

Big companies have profit of 8%. Small buisnesses have even less profit due to economy of scale. Basically, you can only have a small buisness if you dont hire workers so cost for labor is reduced as you are the only worker. But even then, over 50% of small starting buisnesses fail because there is no way you can compete with prices big companies have. They have low prices because their 8% of profit is much bigger than your 8%. They can be wealthy from their 8% while you cant even survive on your 8%. Thats the economy of scale, which has too strong effect due to government making everything expensive so that small buisnesses require more money to maintain themselves, which reduces number of small buisnesses. Its kinda like when difficulty in the game is increased, more people fail at it.