Protestantism as the enemy

The 70's and 80's in rock music was dominated by hair metal bands. KISS, motley crue, Poison, etc who exercised this Protestant idea of scandalizing life and putting into the hands of disgusting and shocking people and outfits. Then the 90s came with grunge and Oasis and can be seen as a counter-revolutionary Catholic revolt-it put music BACK into the domain of normal people.

The more I explore sociology and politics it has now become abundantly clear that Calvinism has won against the old Catholic order. 

Extend this exclusionary nature out to other ideas in life-wealth, sex, self-esteem, etc and the idea is that in Calvinist world, only the "elected" are allowed to actually live whereas the rest are perpetually unsatisfied and told that that a regular life us actually bad for you while being brazenly hypocritical.

Take sex for example, The Scarlet Letter is a perfect example in showing the Calvinist idea that sex is something inherently scandalous but the "elected" are still allowed to do so.

Making porn is about being sexually repressive. What we do is not entertainment, it is sexual control-and-repression politics.

We do not offer or facilitate sexual contact, we do not help or will help anyone have real sex with anyone, but we incite cravings that have no chance of ever being consummated. 

Another aspect of this is alcohol. Alcohol was long scandalized/suppressed by Calvinism and its offshoots in America. Prohibition comes, and now normal people do not have access to alcohol and social cornerstones of the Western world such as pubs are destroyed.

Prohibition comes, and now normal people do not have access to alcohol and social cornerstones of the Western world such as pubs are destroyed. However all Prohibition ACTUALLY did was put the hands of alcohol production, selling, and usage into the hands of an "elected" who ran underground bars and criminal syndicates.

One of the most treasured and liked commodity in Western Civilization was completely scandalized and shocked by Calvinists, rendering consumption of it into the hands of the "elected". 

Let me know what you think.

Calvinism is relatively fringe even within Protestantism. The idea that some people were literally created to go to hell was never going to be popular, and it never will be. On top of that, Reformed churches are predominantly old and white; fast growing churches that successfully reach a young audience tend to be non-denominational, which tends to de-emphasize adherence to elaborate theologies, the very thing Reformed Churches define themselves by. I'd speculate also that from a psychological standpoint, the idea that only a small elect is heaven-bound would leave the impression that missions and evangelization aren't important and can be neglected, letting their opponents decide the makeup of the next generation of Christians.

You do realize that for the overwhelming bulk of Catholicism's existence, the surrounding cultural milieu was feudalism, right? The firstborn son inherited the land, married the princess, and probably had a few mistresses over the years, while the secondborn son was sent to live in a monastery and ordered to be celibate for life. The RCC had extremely large holdings in land, and untold millions of serfs paid rent to an abbot or bishop as opposed to a secular lord. Those who didn't still paid tithes to the church, whose bishops lived in opulence and whose monks often had beer bellies because they collected so much grain from the common people that they made it into beer as a means of storing it.

Protestantism reflects a capitalist society? That's still a massive improvement.

In Protestantism, anyone is allowed to marry, and then have sex after marrying. And marriage is strictly monogamous, so you don't get a Middle East style situation. The Puritans in The Scarlet Letter (a fictional story by a man who was critical of religion, and who might've been inclined to strawman it at times) were having sex with their spouses all the time, and Dimmesdale was clearly written as having been in the wrong for having premarital sex one time in his life.

Porn doesn't exist to placate people who are legally or culturally barred from having sex, since no such restrictions exist in the West and insofar as premarital sex is still taboo in some circles so is porn. Lack of sexual prospects does spur demand for porn, but in a free sexual marketplace there's always going to be winners, losers, and demand for some alternative product for those who can't win. Protestantism isn't the cause of this. It's a general human thing.

Also, Catholicism doesn't allow premarital sex either.

There are other "social cornerstones" besides bars, such as coffee shops, libraries, church, and home gatherings, and in reality a lot of people go to pubs to drink alone. Per Robert Putnam's research, the primary cause of the 20th century's collapse in social engagement was the rise of television, which let people enjoy the effortless semblance of a social life by following along with their favorite characters on a show. Which, of course, had nothing to do with Protestantism.

The rate of alcohol consumption per capita actually did decline during Prohibition, contrary to popular myth. And we might've kicked the habit for good if it'd proven longer than a 10-year experiment.

Between 1/3rd and 3/4th of all rapes involve a drunken perpetrator. Same with at least half of all violent crimes. In 2022, 13,500+ Americans died from drunk driving. In an age of limitless outlets for self-amusement, it's really not a big sacrifice to dump alcohol. People are more than capable of living happy lives without it.

Also, it's blatantly not a taboo in Western countries when you consider how many beer commercials play on TV. Maybe it was a century ago.

By the same token, we can say that protestantism and judaism were important for the birth and development of capitalism and that's been pretty good for the world but religions are not perfect. These religions have a dark side as I said it in another thread. So, what you said is somewhat coherent but I need to check it more carefully. It would be helpful if you give your source.

The English Peasant lived way worse off than their Continental Catholic counterparts because the landowners were of the mercantilist class and engineered enclosure to drive them off in cities to become laborers which ALSO grossly enriched the mercantilist class. 

The only reason that so many more Brits moved to the New World is because the rural English population had nowhere else to go-they were deeply impoverished.

But the conceptions around sex in general is different. In Catholicism sex is considered as something inherently good but can be corrupted. Total Depravity doctrine means that Protestants view sex as inherently bad.

Even today with the Sexual Revolution complete across the West, Catholic countries don't really care, whereas in America there is still a stuck-up "we think its bad but still know its happening". It really does cloud youth shows and movies here in the US whereas European ones are much more upfront and honest.

But that isn't the point. The point is to create a psychological barrier between the winners and losers and create immense stress among the losers. 

The only reason why incel ideology exists is because there are systems in place to create immense barriers between the winners and losers

That's not really the point, but Robert Putnam misdiagnoses the reason which is that male organizations went on a relentless decline.

Yes it did decline because normal people were denied access to it and it became scandalized and into the hands of criminals and bootleggers. That was my entire point.

The only reason why those rapes are associated with alcohol is because its part of the party/nightclub experience.

Drunk driving is massively overstated and a bit of a nothing-burger.

The British peasants were the first, or among the first, in Europe to escape pre-industrial mass poverty.

I suppose the British economic model was an abject failure for centuries and centuries, and then one day poof it succeeded out of nowhere? Nah, I don't buy it. I think that person for person, late Medieval Britain was more productive than most of Europe, and this translated to more job opportunities and upward mobility for the average person.

Case in point, England's heavy involvement in the lucrative wool trade, which was a heavy driver of enclosure (so that the land could be used for raising sheep instead of farming). That wool could be sold abroad for a profit, so instead of toiling in the sun all day and throwing out your back at 26 for a pithance you could find work as a dockhand or in a factory, and find the best deal. Granted, this is assuming you were legally allowed to leave the fields long enough to hold down work, but by 1574 (by act of the Protestant Queen Elizabeth) the last serf had been freed.

By the late 1700s, Napoleon commented that England was a "nation of shopkeepers", suggesting a large chunk of the population was employed in non-agricultural professions.

Setting aside your blatant strawman of what Total Depravity means, I'll ask you this question: which group, Catholics or Protestants, allows their clergy to marry? Which group's priests wear fancy gilded robes as if to brag about their elite spiritual lifestyle, while in truth being sexually frustrated and having secret gay flings with each other or molesting adolescent boys as their only outlet?

And if you retort "some Protestant pastors are guilty of sexual misconduct", well sure, but that's in spite of them being married, obviously not because of it. They have a non-sinful outlet for their natural drives. Catholic priests do not.

What stress are you talking about? The social stigma of being a virgin or otherwise sexually inactive? That's pagan culture, not Catholicism or Protestantism. Is it frustration from having no sexual outlet? Porn, or spanking off without porn if one's capable of it, is that outlet. For many people, choking the rubber chicken doesn't have the long-term effect of intensifying their desire to experience the real thing. Just the opposite, in fact. It makes them not that concerned with the women around them. But for those who feel otherwise, Protestantism obviously didn't invent porn.

...Do you mean to say that, in general, Protestantism instills a general mindset of viewing everything in terms of winners and losers? Couldn't you just substitute "American-style capitalism" and leave Protestantism out of the discussion?

There's nothing about going to a party or nightclub that makes you want to rape someone. It is simply a gathering of people for the mutual aim of having fun, with each person free to decide the extent to which they want to participate. It's alcohol that puts people in a state of mind where they don't respect boundaries they otherwise would.

All religion is the enemy.

The religion of socialism is .