You accepting or adhering to biblical/Christian values will not violate your Islamic/Muslim principles.
You accepting or adhering to biblical/Christian values .
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@Hero1000
You accepting or adhering to biblical/Christian values will not violate your Islamic/Muslim principles.
What are your thoughts?
You accepting or adhering to the values of Ancient Greek philosophy will not violate your biblical/Christian principles.
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@Mall
You accepting or adhering to biblical/Christian values will not violate your Islamic/Muslim principles
It absolutely will. Not sure all the throwing gays off roof tops, randomly raping and killing Israelis and them denying Jeus as God and simultaneously his own som, ir reconsiliable with Christianity
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@Mall
You accepting or adhering to biblical/Christian values will not violate your Islamic/Muslim principles.What are your thoughts?
While the two religions are theologically incompatible due to one openly claiming the other does not fully and properly represent God. (as well as, like Wylted said, that in Islam we deny that Jesus was the son of God or is God) I would say I agree with you that, as far as values and principles are concerned, you're not really in danger of violating the principles of your religion as a Muslim adhering to Christian values or vice versa.
If I were in the presence of true proper God fearing Christians, I do not believe I would be in danger of betraying my principles or the principles of my faith by behaving under their moral standards. And I believe the same would be true with the roles reversed as well.
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@Hero1000
Would living according to Orthodox Judaism also be compatible with Muslim principles?
I think so? It comes from the same roots, so I imagine there's a lot of overlap between what's kosher and what's halal.
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@Mall
@cristo71
@Hero1000
Teach your kids nonsense and they will grow up believing in nonsense.
Is how it works.
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@Hero1000
So you can be a Christian as well as Muslim.
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@Mall
No. As I said before, the two are theologically incompatible.
I believe in Tachyons.
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@Hero1000
Are they spiritually compatible?
I don't fully understand what you mean by that. Could you provide examples of what you consider spiritual traits of either of them?
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@Hero1000
No. As I said before, the two are theologically incompatible.
Both Islam and Christianity are pretty anti-seafood.
I guess you could pick and choose.
Accepting Christian’s values is accepting justification for African slavery, genocide and the Holocaust.
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@Shila
Elaborate
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@Hero1000
If I were in the presence of true proper God fearing Christians, I do not believe I would be in danger of betraying my principles or the principles of my faith by behaving under their moral standards. And I believe the same would be true with the roles reversed as well.
Uh...no.
The moral values of Islam are incompatible with any serious Christian ideal.
Even in principle they are different. Real Christian values firstly come from reason and then from Divine Revelation. And to determine it is from Divine Revelation any real Christian will use reason. So, under the hypothetical case that "god" said to rape someone, a Christian would not do it because that is against reason.
Islam values come from "because Allah said I can do it." So as long as Allah said it.... Who determines he said it, idk. I have not read anything that shows Islam uses any good philosophy or reason to justify their moral principles. If you know of something please show it to me.
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@Shila
Accepting Christian’s values is accepting justification for African slavery, genocide and the Holocaust.
Your bio says you are Catholic...so....
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@Hero1000
Elaborate.
Some Catholic writers claim that it was not until 1890 that the Roman Catholic Church repudiated slavery. A British priest has charged that this did not occur until 1965. Nonsense!
In a 2001 book, The popes against the Jews, I demonstrated that in fact the church played a major role in leading Catholics throughout Europe to view Jews as an existential threat. Yet defenders of the church position continue to deny the historical evidence and to launch ferocious ad hominem attacks against scholars who have researched the subject. The anti-Semitism promulgated by the church can be seen as part of the long battle it waged against modernity, with which the Jews were identified.
In July 1933, Hitler and Pope Pius XI signed a concordat, or treaty. Historian Fritz Stern explains:
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@MAV99
You're making a false equivalence between Christian values and the values of Christian societies. Both true believer Christians and Muslims recognize theologically that Abraham was going to sacrifice his son. But neither true believer would kill his son because they had a dream and interpreted it as a message from God.
You might have your odd psychopath who would actually kill his son because of a dream or because a priest/sheikh told him. But such people are outliers that exist in both faiths.
On the contrary, even in its inception. Islam used reason to move people away from the folly of polytheism and blind tradition. Islam is also "the final message from God told to us by the prophet Mohammed". There is not a possibility, at least under true islam, for a new kind of "God says this.." to emerge. Maybe potentially new interpretations can emerge, but these get heavily challenged and debated within the Muslim community, with reason.
A true-believer Muslim is not going to go rape someone because an Imam came to him and told him "see this passage in the Quran? Here is explanation for why it means God is telling you to rape that person over there", and no, this won't contradict Islamic principles or values.
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@Hero1000
You're making a false equivalence between Christian values and the values of Christian societies. Both true believer Christians and Muslims recognize theologically that Abraham was going to sacrifice his son. But neither true believer would kill his son because they had a dream and interpreted it as a message from God.
Not only did God ask Abrahamic sacrifice his first born.
Genesis 22
Abraham Tested
22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.
God even warned Mary she would be raped by God.
Luke 1
29 But Mary was very startled by what the angel said and wondered what this greeting might mean.
30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Mary; God has shown you his grace. 31 Listen! You will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you will name him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of King David, his ancestor. 33 He will rule over the people of Jacob forever, and his kingdom will never end.”
34 Mary said to the angel, “How will this happen since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will cover you. For this reason the baby will be holy and will be called the Son of God.
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@Shila
Some Catholic writers claim that it was not until 1890 that the Roman Catholic Church repudiated slavery. A British priest has charged that this did not occur until 1965. Nonsense!In a 2001 book, The popes against the Jews, I demonstrated that in fact the church played a major role in leading Catholics throughout Europe to view Jews as an existential threat. Yet defenders of the church position continue to deny the historical evidence and to launch ferocious ad hominem attacks against scholars who have researched the subject. The anti-Semitism promulgated by the church can be seen as part of the long battle it waged against modernity, with which the Jews were identified.In July 1933, Hitler and Pope Pius XI signed a concordat, or treaty. Historian Fritz Stern explains:
These are failings of Christian churches to represent the values of the Christian faith. In fact, some movements (including the protestant movement) happened as a result of devout Christians rebelling against churches failing to represent Christian values.
Christian values does not mean blindly listening to what the church tells you. Nor does believing in Christian values have to be packaged with justifying slavery, genocide or the holocaust.
By that logic, if 9/11 was carried out by Imams (or Caliphs), then I would have to conclude that Islamic values include promoting terrorism due to the actions of high authorities representing the faith.
Edit: As to your second reply, this topic is about values, not theology. Even if the two can often be connected.
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@Hero1000
These are failings of Christian churches to represent the values of the Christian faith. In fact, some movements (including the protestant movement) happened as a result of devout Christians rebelling against churches failing to represent Christian values.Christian values does not mean blindly listening to what the church tells you. Nor does believing in Christian values have to be packaged with justifying slavery, genocide or the holocaust.By that logic, if 9/11 was carried out by Imams (or Caliphs), then I would have to conclude that Islamic values include promoting terrorism due to the actions of high authorities representing the faith.
The 9/11 attack was carried out by Al Qaeda a known terrorist organization.
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@Hero1000
On the contrary, even in its inception. Islam used reason to move people away from the folly of polytheism and blind tradition. Islam is also "the final message from God told to us by the prophet Mohammed". There is not a possibility, at least under true islam, for a new kind of "God says this.." to emerge. Maybe potentially new interpretations can emerge, but these get heavily challenged and debated within the Muslim community, with reason.
Do you have a reference for that?
You're making a false equivalence between Christian values and the values of Christian societies. Both true believer Christians and Muslims recognize theologically that Abraham was going to sacrifice his son. But neither true believer would kill his son because they had a dream and interpreted it as a message from...
Not really.
I am drawing a distinction between where their principles of morality come from, which I am saying are incompatible. They are not the same.
Not to mention the Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex agendi Which means, as you believe so also you pray and so also you act. Certain parts of the morality of Christendom comes from the theological facts that Jesus Christ is God, He resurrected, etc. Especially with the Catholic Church whose Sacraments evolve around those. They use reason to explain it. Those things are incompatible with the moral system of Islam. They would say to worship Jesus is idolatry; the Christians would not. That becomes a question of morality. That goes on a personal and societal level.
So you cannot logically make a blanket statement that they could use societal or even personal values interchangeably.
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@MAV99
Muslims indeed would call that idolatry, myself included. But that's a theological incompatibility, not an incompatibility of values. Calling it a question of morality that goes on a personal and societal level does not make it so.
And Muslims reaching the conclusion that worshiping Jesus is idolatry is not one you can confidently say wasn't based on reason. You imply that Muslims lack reason in interpreting the Quran but I feel your explanation for this is lacking.
Do you have a reference for that?
A bit difficult to source all of the Muslim Ummah, there's a lot that goes on in regards to Islamic Fiqh. Fatwas come to mind.
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@Hero1000
Muslims indeed would call that idolatry, myself included. But that's a theological incompatibility, not an incompatibility of values. Calling it a question of morality that goes on a personal and societal level does not make it so.And Muslims reaching the conclusion that worshiping Jesus is idolatry is not one you can confidently say wasn't based on reason. You imply that Muslims lack reason in interpreting the Quran but I feel your explanation for this is lacking.
They all live Quran cannot be helping Muslim countries.
Many Muslim countries suffer from political crises, economic backwardness, weak infrastructure, bad education, lack of competitiveness in science and technology, polluted and badly managed cities and environmental hazards. They are paralyzed by social inequality, injustice toward women, sectarian conflict, extremism, violence and terrorism. Islam's core teachings of peace, justice and compassion are lost in the brutal races for worldly power. Political leaders, religious scholars and intellectuals have mostly failed to stop the internal bleeding in the Muslim world. They have either succumbed to the temptations of power or become irrelevant. While the world powers and the current international system have much to blame for, Muslims themselves have failed to take care of their own.
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@Hero1000
Christian values are based on theological principles which are incompatible with Islam as you pointed out. I agree that some values are the same but most certainly not all. So you cannot use them interchangeably.
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@MAV99
Fair enough, when I was answering Mall I wasn't that confident in my answer, nor was I thinking all of it was 1:1 interchangeable. I still think I am not in danger of betraying my principles if I assimilated to Christian society, but that might not be relevant to what you're saying.
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@MAV99
Christian values are based on theological principles which are incompatible with Islam as you pointed out. I agree that some values are the same but most certainly not all. So you cannot use them interchangeably.
Paradoxically Judaism, Islam and Christianity worship the God of Abraham.