Classic Movies Mafia Endgame

Author: Casey_Risk

Posts

Total: 31
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
That's the game! With the Mafia at parity with the Town... 

IT'S A MAFIA VICTORY!

So, I screwed up when I made this game. Maybe not as bad as I thought I had given that it got down to the final three, but still, it was too scumsided. Three vanillas was simply too many in a game where the mafia had the roles that they had. Ninja and the Manipulative JOAT are very good mafia roles, and Gladiator is confirmable and heavily town-leaning. 

That being said, I certainly don't think the town was hopeless this game. Moozer's role was potentially very good for the town. Best case scenario, it stops the NK and confirms him, as well as basically confirming whoever was turned into a doctor. The fact that the role is similar in concept to Owen's role from the last game is actually just a coincidence -- I had it in mind even before Austin's game started. Though, perhaps it's not a total coincidence since it was inspired by JoeBob's role in Austin's UPick Mafia. 

Moozer, I know you're still relatively new at this, so I'm not going to go too hard on you. But I am going to go a little hard on you, because you're not THAT new anymore. You need to make sure you adequately understand your role right when the game begins. You had the town's best role, and you completely wasted it by not using it and then doing hardly anything to defend yourself. Austin had been highly sussed since DP1 and if you hadn't made yourself a prime lynch target, there's a good chance he would have been killed instead, and if Wylted had been protected with your help, he could have even caught Cerulean red-handed. But you didn't ask questions, you didn't use your role, and the whole town paid the price for your mistake. 

Also, you shouldn't have honestly said that you were going to give the Doc to Luna. He was already an obvious choice for the NK, and that just made it a no-brainer. Lying about giving it to Luna but actually giving it to Bullish would have been a good move. Being completely honest was not.

Luna, you made a couple mistakes that could have gotten you highly sussed, though it didn’t turn out that way. First, you called yourself a Vanilla Cop, but described yourself as a Neapolitan, which is a different role and what you actually were. Second, you should have scumread Owen HARD immediately. Miller doesn't make any sense unless there's an alignment Cop or something similar. Why would I include a regular Cop in a game with a Neapolitan? It makes no sense. That being said, everyone seemed to believe your claim, and you were able to confirm WF, as well as Banana to a lesser extent. That was part of why I designed the setup as I did -- the mafia had a lot of power, but so did the town potentially. It all came down to how well everyone used their roles. My mistake was in not giving the town enough power. I think my biggest design flaw here was including the Ninja in a game where the only investigatives were a Watcher and an Odd-Night Neapolitan Cop. Austin should have been restricted to odd or even nights, maybe even made a 1x. 

Also, I included Bullish's role as a direct counter to Cerulean's. I wish there had been more discussion about how their roles interacted. 

This might be a bit controversial, but I'm giving Town MVP to Wylted. Sacrificing himself to prevent the town from mislynching him at MYLO/LYLO is the type of selfless move that the town needed for a shot at winning. Whiteflame is a close second. His analysis was logical and overall very good. His mistakes were just scumreading Moozer (who, although town, was objectively scummy) and assuming the game was reasonably balanced in the first place (definitely can't blame him for that). Also, he was the only one who was really engaging in theme split analysis, though he missed the mark. 

The theme split was that the Mafia movies were all pre-Code movies. After Owen's flip, this split was solvable, though Cerulean could not have been caught that way as he had fakeclaimed well. 

Speaking of, Cerulean is easily the Mafia MVP. He was widely townread early on and did good research to try and figure out other players' characters. All in all, an excellent Mafia player. 

Anyway, I have a bit more to say, but I'll leave it here for now. I hope everyone had some fun despite how lopsided the balance was. If I ever create another Mafia game, I'll definitely have an experienced mod or two give me feedback before starting it. 
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
Mafia:

  • AustinL0926 - You are Scarface! Not the 1983 version, but actually the 1932 original. Yes, even before the famous Al Pacino movie, there was this film, which was inspired by the life of Al Capone. Capone himself actually saw the movie and liked it. Antonio "Tony" Camonte, an Italian gangster in Chicago, rises through the ranks to become the ultimate kingpin, though it all leads to his downfall in the end. Based on this, you might expect to be the Mafia Godfather… But instead, you are the Ninja. If you perform the Night Kill, it will be invisible to movement-based investigative roles. (Tracker, Watcher, etc.) You win with the Mafia.
  • Cerulean - You are King Kong! This classic monster movie would go on to inspire a whole franchise of movies based around the titular ape. A journey to an uncharted island leads to Kong, a giant gorilla-like beast. The climactic scene of Kong climbing the Empire State building with Ann in his hand is as well-known as the movie itself. Because of Kong’s fearsome might and desire for human sacrifice, you are the 1x Mafia Gladiator. One night per game, you may target any player to challenge them to a fight the following day. Only you and the player you challenge will be able to be voted out; however, a VTNL will still be possible. You win with the Mafia.
  • Owen_T - You are Baby Face! This Barbara Stanwyck film depicts a young woman named Lily Powers who seduces many men and uses sex to advance her career and personal status. At the time it was released, it was highly controversial and garnered negative reactions in the press. These days, film historians appreciate it for its boundary-pushing nature and its reflection of depression-era anxieties. Because of Powers’s use of sex to manipulate men, you are the Manipulative JOAT - 1x Redirector, 1x Deflector, 1x Bus Driver. You may use one ability per night, but may not use any ability more than once. You win with the Mafia.
Town:

  • WyIted - You are Rear Window! This classic Hitchcock film starring James Stewart depicts a recently disabled man who spends a lot of time moping around at home while watching his neighborhood through the rear window of his apartment, where he sees evidence that one of his neighbors has just committed a murder. You are the Watcher. Once per night, you may choose to watch any player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who, if anyone, visited them that night. You win with the Town.
  • Lunatic - You are Rashomon! This 1950 Japanese film by director Akira Kurosawa was the first film from a non-Western nation to really catch the attention of Western film critics and opened up the doors for cinema in other parts of the world. Rashomon popularized the trope of a story told by several different participants, each giving a completely different and contradictory tale. In the film, a crime has occurred, but the only things all the witnesses agree on are that a samurai was killed and his wife was raped by a bandit, but each tells the story of how it all happened completely differently, with the implication being that they all told lies based on their roles within Japanese society at the time. Because of this search for truth that provides no clear answers as to exactly who is guilty of what, you are the Odd-Night Neapolitan Cop. On odd-numbered nights, you may investigate any other player to learn (assuming no interference with your actions) if they are Vanilla Town or not. You win with the Town.
  • ILikePie5 - You are Seven Samurai! This Akira Kurosawa film released in 1954 is still considered one of the greatest samurai films of all time, sometimes even one of the greatest films in general. Set during the Sengoku Jidai or ‘Warring States’ period of Japanese history, this film is centered around a small village which must hire samurai to protect it from bandits. Unlike many other samurai movies which depict the samurai as glorious heroes who have to save idiotic villagers, Seven Samurai takes a more nuanced view, showing the samurai as not all being honorable, while the villagers were still competent on their own, they simply needed help to defend themselves. Because the samurai came to aid the village and protect it from being ransacked, you are the Strengthener. Once per night, you may target any player to prevent their night actions (if they take any) from being interfered with, such as by a Roleblocker, Redirector, etc. You win with the Town.
  • Moozer325 - You are It’s A Wonderful Life! This film is considered a Christmas classic these days, but received mixed reviews upon release and did very poorly at the box office, causing it to be overlooked and largely forgotten until its copyright, having not been renewed, expired, at which point it could be broadcast without companies needing to pay for any licensing fees, and the film surged in popularity. In the movie, God assigns an angel named Clarence, who has yet to gain his wings, to save George Bailey, a suicidal man. Now, you can give players their wings. You are the 2x Daytime Doctor Inventor. Two days per game, you may choose any player to turn into a Doctor on the following night. That night and that night only, they will be able to target any other player to save them from lethal night actions. You win with the Town.
  • Bullish - You are 12 Angry Men! This classic film based on a stage play of the same name is the ultimate example of doing a lot with a little. With the vast majority of the film taking place in a single room and just twelve characters with actors listed in the credits, this film still manages to tell a great story. A jury is almost unanimous in wanting to find a man accused of murder guilty, but one juror has doubts and manages to change the minds of everyone else. Because of this, you are the 1x Super Governor. If anyone is ever voted out who you did NOT vote for, the day will enter Twilight, during which you may choose to pardon the condemned player. If you do so, they will not be killed and the following night phase will be skipped over entirely. You may only use this ability once per game, and you may not use it to save yourself. You may also pre-pardon a person before Twilight starts if you think they are going to be lynched by messaging me before the day ends. You win with the Town.
  • Earth - You are The Ten Commandments! This 1956 film was the most expensive ever made at the time of its release, but it was also a great success at the box office. Filmed on location in the Sinai peninsula, The Ten Commandments retells the story of Moses from the Bible book of Exodus, from his birth in Egypt to his delivery of the Hebrews to the promised land. Now, it is your turn to help deliver the town to victory. You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special abilities, but you have your vote and your voice. Use them to help expose and defeat the Mafia. You win with the Town. 
  • whiteflame - You are Some Like It Hot! This classic comedy depicts two male musicians who must disguise themselves as women in order to hide themselves from the mafia after witnessing them committing a crime. Move over RuPaul, Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon are in town! Now, it is your turn to help expose the mafia. You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special abilities, but you have your vote and your voice. Use them to help expose and defeat the Mafia. You win with the Town. 
  • iamanabanana - You are Casablanca! This classic Humphrey Bogart film was set and filmed during World War II. An American expat in Morocco, controlled by Vichy France, is confronted by an ex-lover of his who is trying to secure exit visas for her and her husband so they can flee from the Nazis. Conflicted, Rick Blaine must choose between following his own desires and doing the right thing. Now, it is up to you to help save the town from an evil force. You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special abilities, but you have your vote and your voice. Use them to help expose and defeat the Mafia. You win with the Town. 

Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
Placeholder 
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,882
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
Congrats scum team. I honestly was not certain of Austin being scum until after I died. I was just fucking with him because it was fun. I think had I survived I would have had a tough decision. It wasn't easy to make a correct choice that last DP. I felt like earth was town but for me I would still struggle between cerulean and Bullish 
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Earth
@whiteflame
@Moozer325
@Owen_T
@iamanabanana
Fin
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Lunatic
@Bullish
@ILikePie5
@AustinL0926
@Cerulean
We hope you enjoyed the show! 
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,318
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
Moozer not using the Doctor killed town. I was the most townie player after DP1. If Moozer had given anyone the Doctor, if they didn’t protect me, it would be sus af

Earth
Earth's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 3,105
3
4
8
Earth's avatar
Earth
3
4
8
-->
@Casey_Risk
No credit for me correctly identifying the theme :(?
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 600
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
I think Im going to have to go into early Mafia retirement.
Cerulean
Cerulean's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 357
2
2
4
Cerulean's avatar
Cerulean
2
2
4
I think what I've learned from this game and last game is that Mafia's number one absolute first priority here is to come up with reasonable fake claims- that's what got... practically every Mafia killed in those two games, rather than anything social. Pie didn't have a good fake claim and went IC to try and avoid it. The Conditional Vigilante claim I had was poorly executed. The Miller claim didn't fit SOP for Millers. The Tracker claim... was really just meant to be obviously wrong, but Austin not having a claim until then was part of what sealed his fate.

Anyway, that was a good game for sure. A little soured, unfortunately, by the misbalance, but Town still played fairly well with the cards that were dealt. There was a reason we were forced to pull off a mutual bus shenanigan in F5, and it wasn't just because Austin'd delayed the claim too long- it was also because I was going to get a level of scrutiny for the Gladiator, so we had to throw things off by making us look unpaired.

Banana actually played reasonably well here- she managed to catch me during the duel when nobody else really did. Maybe coincidence after my pushing last game resonating here, but maybe just a genuinely good callout.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be getting heavy scrutiny almost every game now. Maybe it's deserved?

Cerulean
Cerulean's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 357
2
2
4
Cerulean's avatar
Cerulean
2
2
4
-->
@Casey_Risk
How would the Super Governor have interacted with Moozer's ability? If the Invention was granted Day 1, would the Doctor have been delayed to Night 1 (following Day 2) or would it have just disappeared?
Cerulean
Cerulean's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 357
2
2
4
Cerulean's avatar
Cerulean
2
2
4
-->
@Lunatic
@ILikePie5
I'm curious, did either of you have me pegged as Mafia by the time Day 6 rolled around?

ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,318
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Cerulean
I'm curious, did either of you have me pegged as Mafia by the time Day 6 rolled around?
I definitely would’ve after seeing Austin’s flip.

2/3 mafia roles fit perfectly with town roles. Odds are that the third one does as well. Then it’s a matter of figuring out which of you and Bullish is scum, and the answer to that lies with Austin. Would Austin bus Cerulean? Answer is definitely yes. The bus was obvious because why would Cerulean execute the NK when scum have a Ninja. Bullish can’t be the Ninja because he’s the Super Governor. Problem solved.
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,955
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
Long story short... yeah, this one was frustrating.

I think Moozer's gotten a good deal of blowback already, so I'll just say that your major take-away should be to make sure you read through your role thoroughly, ask pertinent questions of the mod and, whenever feasible, use your role early. It comes with some risks, but you really need to do everything you can to both confirm yourself and help town.

Austin definitely didn't do himself any favors when he refused to claim. If the aim really was to just get yourself lynched, you nailed it. That being said, for everyone who was townreading Cerulean for being on that wagon and having the sussing match with Austin, it seemed like an obvious mutual bus to me and, especially given how widely scumread Austin was by that point, his decision to do it shouldn't have been townread.

It was a tough call in the end. With two flipped Vanillas, I might have sussed Earth a bit too, but Austin's flip would have made me question a lot of my suppositions about the balance in the game as well, and I just didn't see any behavioral reasons to sus Earth. It might have been a tough call between Bullish and Cerulean, but between the Super Governor and the Gladiator, I was leaning scum on Cerulean even before Austin got lynched. 
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Cerulean
How would the Super Governor have interacted with Moozer's ability? If the Invention was granted Day 1, would the Doctor have been delayed to Night 1 (following Day 2) or would it have just disappeared?
It would have been wasted. I thought Moozer might have figured that was the case and that's why he didn't use his ability DP1, but nope, I guess he just forgot he had to use his ability during the day. 
Casey_Risk
Casey_Risk's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 1,062
3
3
8
Casey_Risk's avatar
Casey_Risk
3
3
8
-->
@Earth
No credit for me correctly identifying the theme :(?
By that point, the game was pretty much already over. All Cerulean had to do was show up and claim his free win. 
iamanabanana
iamanabanana's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 148
0
2
5
iamanabanana's avatar
iamanabanana
0
2
5
-->
@whiteflame
And this is why I killed Banana instead of Earth.
Yep, made the right choice. She would have at least fought it, and props to you Banana, you really stepped up this game.
Thankyou! I was totally gonna go for cerulean if I had lived too. It's why I didn't argue with austin about his reasons for pursuing him, I thought they were trying to frame each other to make the other look good. I was going to tell bullish that I agreed with the idea they were on the same team when he mentioned it, but I figured if I did they would kill me. Turns out they killed me anyway :/
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,016
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Casey_Risk
Luna, you made a couple mistakes that could have gotten you highly sussed, though it didn’t turn out that way. First, you called yourself a Vanilla Cop, but described yourself as a Neapolitan, which is a different role and what you actually were. 
I didn't really expect anyone to sus my claim, because the way I went about it was pretty legit. I had no reason to do that as scum.

Second, you should have scumread Owen HARD immediately. Miller doesn't make any sense unless there's an alignment Cop or something similar. Why would I include a regular Cop in a game with a Neapolitan? It makes no sense. That being said, everyone seemed to believe your claim, and you were able to confirm WF, as well as Banana to a lesser extent. That was part of why I designed the setup as I did -- the mafia had a lot of power, but so did the town potentially. It all came down to how well everyone used their roles. My mistake was in not giving the town enough power. I think my biggest design flaw here was including the Ninja in a game where the only investigatives were a Watcher and an Odd-Night Neapolitan Cop. Austin should have been restricted to odd or even nights, maybe even made a 1x. 
I was willing to vote Owen, someone else just ended up hammering him before me. Also I don't think your balance was bad. 
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,016
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
-->
@Cerulean
I'm curious, did either of you have me pegged as Mafia by the time Day 6 rolled around?

When I died, I told casey I suspected austin only but not who the third was. You did well, as usual :)
Lunatic
Lunatic's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 9,016
3
3
6
Lunatic's avatar
Lunatic
3
3
6
Im not so disappointed with the decision, more so that it was made so hastily without consideration at all of it being cerulean. But it's whatever. GG's was a good well balanced game and it was close!
AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,288
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
Ggs, had fun! Thanks Casey for modding. Great job to Cerulean for bringing it home, it was a tricky spot and I didn't see a good way out of it other than distancing and hoping for the best.

Setup was a bit scumsided imo, 3 v 8 is fairly strong ratio for scum because it requires the same number of mislynches as 2 v 9 for scum to win, but gives scum leeway to bus an extra member if things go wrong. 

If someone gave me this setup to review, I would probably:
-Change manipulative JOAT to 2-shot RB
-Make Ninja even-night only
-Make neapolitan unlimited
-Mafia gladiator is... eh... it's not inherently scumsided mechanically but in practice it tends to be. I do think the town Governor was enough of a hint that it's fine.


AustinL0926
AustinL0926's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,288
3
5
9
AustinL0926's avatar
AustinL0926
3
5
9
Also, don't rush to vote in final 3. Take a step back and consider that if you're town, you're there for one of two reasons - either scum thinks you can be mislynched, or scum thinks you're going to vote the other town member. If you can figure out which of those is the case, you're pretty close to nailing down the last scum.
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
fuck
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@ILikePie5
Ur role literally countered Cerulean’s role. There was a counter to everything 🤦‍♂️
Except for the odd-night vanilla cop and 2x doc. 3rd scum could have been 2x strongman or some odd-night role.
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
No way I don't vote earth DP6. And even if I didn't we would have lost any way, because Earth already telegraphed "From my PoE, the last mafia is Banana or Bullish"

Here's why I would have voted earth no matter what:

Role:

Cerulean's fake claim was literally perfect. Spartacus was THE classic gladiator movie, with Ben Hur maybe being a distant second. In fact if he claimed his real role King Kong, I might have voted him even without theme analysis, because that role justification is wack.

Earth is the odd vanilla out. In a 8v3 game it's hard to believe there's 3 vanilla with no goon.

Behaviour:

Earth was not on the Owen wagon or the Austin wagon, and he was on the Moozer wagon. The only correct wagon he was not on was wylted, and that one didn't matter because VNTL would have made MyLo which is actually worse for town.

Earth hardly tried DP5. I thought he gave up.
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
-->
@Cerulean
well played
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Everyone's already ragging on moozer, but his real mistake wasn't forgetting to use his role. DP2 was shortened so he had at least 1 legit reason to forget to use his role. His real mistake was saying in the DP he's giving his doc to Lunatic, then actually giving his doc to Lunatic. Moozer is too innocent to play mafia.
Bullish
Bullish's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,311
3
3
6
Bullish's avatar
Bullish
3
3
6
Also if DP5 Austin pushed earth (without the tracker fake claim BS, lol, what was that), I would have just voted earth right there, the game would have ended.
Vader
Vader's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 14,984
5
8
11
Vader's avatar
Vader
5
8
11
The dogpiling of Moozer has gotten a bit ridiculous. He's only played 10 games and such and is still relatively new. Yes he shoud've probably asked about his role function the leash is still relatively wrong. Hell I make the same mistake sometimes
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,318
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Vader
The dogpiling of Moozer has gotten a bit ridiculous. He's only played 10 games and such and is still relatively new. Yes he shoud've probably asked about his role function the leash is still relatively wrong. Hell I make the same mistake sometimes
Problem is he did the same thing in a previous game.