Chaos > Order > Mammals 8-cell Pathway

Author: ebuc

Posts

Total: 9
Topic's author
#1
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,075
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
So 8 corners of the cube, 8 triangular openings of the Octahedron, ergo the 8 triangular openings of the Vector Equlliibrium/cubo-octahedron.
OO--OO----
----OO--OO

.."The data showed that the first divisions after fertilization were not regulated across mice, rabbits, and monkeys. The cells divided randomly until they reached the 8-cell stage, a stage where all embryos suddenly started to look the same. "After looking very different in the first stages, embryos seemed to converge toward each other's shape at the end of the 8-cell stage," Hannezo continues. But how come? What brings structure to this chaos?

An embryonal Rubik's cube -- cell cluster optimizes its packing

Corominas-Murtra and Hannezo, both theoretical physicists, were fascinated by this dataset and set out to understand this process from a theoretical standpoint.
However, an embryo's shape is highly complex, making it difficult to determine what it means for two embryos to be similar or different. The scientists discovered that they could effectively approximate the full complexity of the structure of an embryo simply by studying the configurations of the cell-to-cell contacts. "We think that we can derive most of the important details about the morphology of an embryo by understanding the arrangements of cells or knowing which cells are physically connected -- similar to connections in a social network."...


#2
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,801
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@ebuc

It's time to rethink what created the Universe.
#3
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,831
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@ebuc
We think that we can derive most of the important details about the morphology of an embryo by understanding the arrangements of cells or knowing which cells are physically connected -- similar to connections in a social network."...
Except they can't actually "derive most of the important details about the morphology" it's strictly a retrodictive analysis.

It was strictly a process of retrodiction, which doesn't "derive" from the arrangement of cells, they reversed the usual research direction by starting at the end – the outcomes – and then tracing back to see why certain configurations ended up with one outcome option and not another.

They examine outcomes first and then trace back the developmental process leading to these outcomes, they derive the cell structure from the morphology, and that is not the same thing as deriving the morphology from the cell structure.
Topic's author
#4
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,075
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Sidewalker
They examine outcomes first and then trace back the developmental process leading to these outcomes, they derive the cell structure from the morphology, and that is not the same thing as deriving the morphology from the cell structure.

..' similar to connections in social network ' ?,

At one, two, three, four, five, six and seven, the cells are more dis-similar, and eight become similar. H,mm?

Does this likened back to 6 degrees of freedom that connect all humans thing with Kevin Bacon being the focal point for movie goers?

Its all above my pay grade.

FLRW....It's time to rethink what created the Universe.

Finite occupied space Universe is eternal ergo naught is created nor lost, rather, the question is, what is form/phase before the initiating Big Bang transformation etc......)( or (  ) or * or [ ] or O or _____ or ;;;;;;;

....1................5p.......7p > is the 8th nodal event so a nucleated hexagon plus one
-
0..........................6.................................................
.............3p............................................................
-
.........2p......4........................................................
#5
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,831
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@ebuc
I sure don't know how it works, but I think these guys are blowing smoke when they say they know that it's a matter of how the cells connect after three divisions, fact is we don't really have a clue how the morphology is determined. I think it's because we are looking at the wrong things.

Start with a single cell, split into two exact copies that have the same DNA, split again, split again, and at some point, the cells start to differentiate into different types, with different functions, and different locations, and in the end, it becomes an organism, but we have to look deeper than cell structure, we are missing something fundamental.

Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
#6
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,831
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@ebuc
I think it's because we are looking at the wrong things.
I'm putting it that way because out of all people, you definitely look at things differently, and you see things the rest of us don't see.

So, in addition to the whole caterpillar/butterfly thing, consider this.

Look at the big picture, with a comprehensive view of life we perceive laws that are non-random laws. Population genetics predicts stasis. The fossil record shows static forms interrupted by extinction and it makes it clear that small changes don’t accumulate.  Darwin’s unifying theory of biology is a theory of stability, it tells us nothing about the generation of form.  When we look at these forms we see basic shapes, patterns and possibilities repeating themselves again and again in a phenomenon called “parallel evolution”.  We find “Homologous organs” which are similar structures spanning different classes of organisms.  Similarities of structure that evolved independently in unrelated classes of life and that cannot be explained by mere coincidence.

We find marsupials evolving in Australia, which were completely isolated from the placental animals evolving elsewhere, and it is unsettling that they are so similar, in fact, they are simply too similar, it's almost creepy.   When the continental plates drifted apart sometime during the Cretaceous period a small mammal resembling a shrew became completely isolated in Australia from the rest of its population.  Millions of years later this mammal had evolved into wolves, squirrels, cats, mice, anteaters, ground hogs, and moles both in Australia and elsewhere.  A common ancestor adapting to similar conditions in order to occupy comparable habitats can’t explain the profound similarities, not with only a mechanism of chance mutation at work, that just isn't enough. 

When we take an honest look, there appear to be underlying patterns and forms in nature, predetermined genetic pathways.  Rather than primary instruction sets, genes are revealed to be modifying influences selecting from a limited number of possible solutions intrinsic in life forms.  Life shows itself to be based on self-organizing principles that adhere to underlying patterns of form.  It is not just the same gene complex creating wolves in both Australia and elsewhere after millions of years but also different genes producing homologous organs as they follow underlying laws of form. Arms, legs, wings, and flippers have evolved in completely dissimilar creatures for entirely different purposes, yet they have developed profoundly similar designs.  Science has obviously ignored some basic principle underlying the whole process.

Ideas?

Topic's author
#7
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,075
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Sidewalker
Ideas?

Lamarckian?  Epigentetic machanisms? Environment steers evolution.

Back in 90's I briefly got into Bruce Lipton's power of belief, ---my wife bought the video--   and he used PVC pipe and connectors to show how Lamarckian evolution functions. This approach to explaining the mechanism of epigenetics was truly inspiring to me.   Seemed logical, common sense critical thinking.

Go to 4:40 in this vid with bruce to hear about proteins, quantum physics and environmental signals/tuners that make each of us unique{ special }.

I saw recent vid with R Penrose, and he made clear that consciousness is a result of physics. 

Experience { occupied space physics } > > > may lead to the access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego.

At the above vid Bruce uses the word field as spirit --invisible moving forces{ bosons two whatever degree }---.

Ive been clear for some 20 years there is four primary kinds of Spirit, three of which are an occupied space.

Recently Ive returned to exploring the Fine Structure Constant value regarding the interaction/coupling of EM Field{ photons } with charged particles and most specifically the electron to absorb that field of the photon and release it.

My latest conclusion was that im not smart enough, or intuitive enough, to crack why it is that specific value even tho I can get close on the irrational side using a power of Pi.  Thats a differrent story that If I didnt post around here yet, I hope to soon.

Primary Occupied Space Field/Spirit in 2D or so I speculate --old news to most who read anything I post---
..1............5p..7p..........11p.....13p....etc......Ultra-micro Gravity (   ) ...geodesic spiral trajectory
-
0.................6......................12.........etc........Fermionic Matter and Bosonic forces..invaginations/cleavages v..v.v..v
.........3p.................9.........................etc.......Fermionic Matter and Bosonic Forces invaginations/cleavages ..^.^.^..^
-
.....2p....4............8....10.................14...etc....Ultra-micro Dark Energy )( ..geodesic spiral trajectory


Quarks come in threes, and total as 18 combinations of quark and 18 combinations of anti-quark ergo 18 = 3 * 6

Electron, muon electron, tau electron and there their anti-particles = 12 total ergo, 12 =  3 * 4
..note: 3 { Structural, i.e think diagonal in construction } 4 [ Systemic, think operationally transformable }..

Neutrinoes, muon neutrino tau neutrino and their three anti-particles = 12 total, ergo, 12 = 3 * 4
..note: 3 { Structural, i.e think diagonal in construction } 4 [ Systemic, think operationally transformable }..

So see two internal lines in the 2D field above 0, 3p, 6, 9, 12 etc

57 days later

Topic's author
#8
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,075
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@FLRW
@Sidewalker
It's time to rethink what created the Universe.

Obviously it was whoever created the Shasibo toy created the Universe.   Wink! Wink!

12 tetrahedra = 48 i.e. 12 x 4 triangles on each tetrahedron { triangular based pyramid }

.." The Shashibo, or shape shifting box, is a complex magnetic geometric 3D puzzle. Each cube consists of 12 magnetised pyramids that are connected through hinges. "..

And tho I did see a snake like linear phase, I dont know that the Shashibo can create the double sine-wave pattern of EMRadiation or some of the other exotic shapes/patterns that B Fullers jitterbug Vector Equilibrium will change into.

1} as mentioned above the jbug changes into the double sine-wave pattern, in two various options of occurrence of the VE jitternug, --one of these operations is the pushing inward of two opposite vertexes, and the other is the pulling-onward of two opposite vertexes and I find that interesting.

2} ive not yet seen the Shasible fold into the the 2D, flying { analogy space craft } hexagon pattern with its 7th triangle pattern as the tail wing that can fold left or right, and since the VE is more flexible in some ways, the flying VE hexagon can morph as a stingray with a tail wing { /\ }

3} ive not yet seen  Shashibo fold into the 2D saddle-shape of both positive and negative curvature,

4} ive not seen the Shashbo fold into a  2D two frequency triangle,

5} if not seen the the Shashibo fold into a 2-frequency tetrahedron,

6} ive not seen the Shashibo fold into a 3D tetrahedron,

7} ive not seen the Shashibo fold into the 12 vertexes of the VE, or,

8} the phase  of a semi-complete, 5-fold icosahedron.

NOte: in keeping with topic of 8-cells, the VE jbug has 8 surface triangles and 6 surface squares
#9
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,092
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Sidewalker
When we take an honest look, there appear to be underlying patterns and forms in nature, predetermined genetic pathways.  Rather than primary instruction sets, genes are revealed to be modifying influences selecting from a limited number of possible solutions intrinsic in life forms.  Life shows itself to be based on self-organizing principles that adhere to underlying patterns of form.  It is not just the same gene complex creating wolves in both Australia and elsewhere after millions of years but also different genes producing homologous organs as they follow underlying laws of form. Arms, legs, wings, and flippers have evolved in completely dissimilar creatures for entirely different purposes, yet they have developed profoundly similar designs.  Science has obviously ignored some basic principle underlying the whole process.

Ideas?
Same research that led to the conclusion humans evolved from Apes. And birds from dinosaurs.