Chaos > Order > Mammals 8-cell Pathway

Author: ebuc

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#1
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So 8 corners of the cube, 8 triangular openings of the Octahedron, ergo the 8 triangular openings of the Vector Equlliibrium/cubo-octahedron.
OO--OO----
----OO--OO

.."The data showed that the first divisions after fertilization were not regulated across mice, rabbits, and monkeys. The cells divided randomly until they reached the 8-cell stage, a stage where all embryos suddenly started to look the same. "After looking very different in the first stages, embryos seemed to converge toward each other's shape at the end of the 8-cell stage," Hannezo continues. But how come? What brings structure to this chaos?

An embryonal Rubik's cube -- cell cluster optimizes its packing

Corominas-Murtra and Hannezo, both theoretical physicists, were fascinated by this dataset and set out to understand this process from a theoretical standpoint.
However, an embryo's shape is highly complex, making it difficult to determine what it means for two embryos to be similar or different. The scientists discovered that they could effectively approximate the full complexity of the structure of an embryo simply by studying the configurations of the cell-to-cell contacts. "We think that we can derive most of the important details about the morphology of an embryo by understanding the arrangements of cells or knowing which cells are physically connected -- similar to connections in a social network."...


#2
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@ebuc

It's time to rethink what created the Universe.
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@ebuc
We think that we can derive most of the important details about the morphology of an embryo by understanding the arrangements of cells or knowing which cells are physically connected -- similar to connections in a social network."...
Except they can't actually "derive most of the important details about the morphology" it's strictly a retrodictive analysis.

It was strictly a process of retrodiction, which doesn't "derive" from the arrangement of cells, they reversed the usual research direction by starting at the end – the outcomes – and then tracing back to see why certain configurations ended up with one outcome option and not another.

They examine outcomes first and then trace back the developmental process leading to these outcomes, they derive the cell structure from the morphology, and that is not the same thing as deriving the morphology from the cell structure.
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@Sidewalker
They examine outcomes first and then trace back the developmental process leading to these outcomes, they derive the cell structure from the morphology, and that is not the same thing as deriving the morphology from the cell structure.

..' similar to connections in social network ' ?,

At one, two, three, four, five, six and seven, the cells are more dis-similar, and eight become similar. H,mm?

Does this likened back to 6 degrees of freedom that connect all humans thing with Kevin Bacon being the focal point for movie goers?

Its all above my pay grade.

FLRW....It's time to rethink what created the Universe.

Finite occupied space Universe is eternal ergo naught is created nor lost, rather, the question is, what is form/phase before the initiating Big Bang transformation etc......)( or (  ) or * or [ ] or O or _____ or ;;;;;;;

....1................5p.......7p > is the 8th nodal event so a nucleated hexagon plus one
-
0..........................6.................................................
.............3p............................................................
-
.........2p......4........................................................
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@ebuc
I sure don't know how it works, but I think these guys are blowing smoke when they say they know that it's a matter of how the cells connect after three divisions, fact is we don't really have a clue how the morphology is determined. I think it's because we are looking at the wrong things.

Start with a single cell, split into two exact copies that have the same DNA, split again, split again, and at some point, the cells start to differentiate into different types, with different functions, and different locations, and in the end, it becomes an organism, but we have to look deeper than cell structure, we are missing something fundamental.

Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
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@ebuc
I think it's because we are looking at the wrong things.
I'm putting it that way because out of all people, you definitely look at things differently, and you see things the rest of us don't see.

So, in addition to the whole caterpillar/butterfly thing, consider this.

Look at the big picture, with a comprehensive view of life we perceive laws that are non-random laws. Population genetics predicts stasis. The fossil record shows static forms interrupted by extinction and it makes it clear that small changes don’t accumulate.  Darwin’s unifying theory of biology is a theory of stability, it tells us nothing about the generation of form.  When we look at these forms we see basic shapes, patterns and possibilities repeating themselves again and again in a phenomenon called “parallel evolution”.  We find “Homologous organs” which are similar structures spanning different classes of organisms.  Similarities of structure that evolved independently in unrelated classes of life and that cannot be explained by mere coincidence.

We find marsupials evolving in Australia, which were completely isolated from the placental animals evolving elsewhere, and it is unsettling that they are so similar, in fact, they are simply too similar, it's almost creepy.   When the continental plates drifted apart sometime during the Cretaceous period a small mammal resembling a shrew became completely isolated in Australia from the rest of its population.  Millions of years later this mammal had evolved into wolves, squirrels, cats, mice, anteaters, ground hogs, and moles both in Australia and elsewhere.  A common ancestor adapting to similar conditions in order to occupy comparable habitats can’t explain the profound similarities, not with only a mechanism of chance mutation at work, that just isn't enough. 

When we take an honest look, there appear to be underlying patterns and forms in nature, predetermined genetic pathways.  Rather than primary instruction sets, genes are revealed to be modifying influences selecting from a limited number of possible solutions intrinsic in life forms.  Life shows itself to be based on self-organizing principles that adhere to underlying patterns of form.  It is not just the same gene complex creating wolves in both Australia and elsewhere after millions of years but also different genes producing homologous organs as they follow underlying laws of form. Arms, legs, wings, and flippers have evolved in completely dissimilar creatures for entirely different purposes, yet they have developed profoundly similar designs.  Science has obviously ignored some basic principle underlying the whole process.

Ideas?

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Ideas?

Lamarckian?  Epigentetic machanisms? Environment steers evolution.

Back in 90's I briefly got into Bruce Lipton's power of belief, ---my wife bought the video--   and he used PVC pipe and connectors to show how Lamarckian evolution functions. This approach to explaining the mechanism of epigenetics was truly inspiring to me.   Seemed logical, common sense critical thinking.

Go to 4:40 in this vid with bruce to hear about proteins, quantum physics and environmental signals/tuners that make each of us unique{ special }.

I saw recent vid with R Penrose, and he made clear that consciousness is a result of physics. 

Experience { occupied space physics } > > > may lead to the access to Meta-space mind/intellect/concepts and ego.

At the above vid Bruce uses the word field as spirit --invisible moving forces{ bosons two whatever degree }---.

Ive been clear for some 20 years there is four primary kinds of Spirit, three of which are an occupied space.

Recently Ive returned to exploring the Fine Structure Constant value regarding the interaction/coupling of EM Field{ photons } with charged particles and most specifically the electron to absorb that field of the photon and release it.

My latest conclusion was that im not smart enough, or intuitive enough, to crack why it is that specific value even tho I can get close on the irrational side using a power of Pi.  Thats a differrent story that If I didnt post around here yet, I hope to soon.

Primary Occupied Space Field/Spirit in 2D or so I speculate --old news to most who read anything I post---
..1............5p..7p..........11p.....13p....etc......Ultra-micro Gravity (   ) ...geodesic spiral trajectory
-
0.................6......................12.........etc........Fermionic Matter and Bosonic forces..invaginations/cleavages v..v.v..v
.........3p.................9.........................etc.......Fermionic Matter and Bosonic Forces invaginations/cleavages ..^.^.^..^
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.....2p....4............8....10.................14...etc....Ultra-micro Dark Energy )( ..geodesic spiral trajectory


Quarks come in threes, and total as 18 combinations of quark and 18 combinations of anti-quark ergo 18 = 3 * 6

Electron, muon electron, tau electron and there their anti-particles = 12 total ergo, 12 =  3 * 4
..note: 3 { Structural, i.e think diagonal in construction } 4 [ Systemic, think operationally transformable }..

Neutrinoes, muon neutrino tau neutrino and their three anti-particles = 12 total, ergo, 12 = 3 * 4
..note: 3 { Structural, i.e think diagonal in construction } 4 [ Systemic, think operationally transformable }..

So see two internal lines in the 2D field above 0, 3p, 6, 9, 12 etc

57 days later

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@FLRW
@Sidewalker
It's time to rethink what created the Universe.

Obviously it was whoever created the Shasibo toy created the Universe.   Wink! Wink!

12 tetrahedra = 48 i.e. 12 x 4 triangles on each tetrahedron { triangular based pyramid }

.." The Shashibo, or shape shifting box, is a complex magnetic geometric 3D puzzle. Each cube consists of 12 magnetised pyramids that are connected through hinges. "..

And tho I did see a snake like linear phase, I dont know that the Shashibo can create the double sine-wave pattern of EMRadiation or some of the other exotic shapes/patterns that B Fullers jitterbug Vector Equilibrium will change into.

1} as mentioned above the jbug changes into the double sine-wave pattern, in two various options of occurrence of the VE jitternug, --one of these operations is the pushing inward of two opposite vertexes, and the other is the pulling-onward of two opposite vertexes and I find that interesting.

2} ive not yet seen the Shasible fold into the the 2D, flying { analogy space craft } hexagon pattern with its 7th triangle pattern as the tail wing that can fold left or right, and since the VE is more flexible in some ways, the flying VE hexagon can morph as a stingray with a tail wing { /\ }

3} ive not yet seen  Shashibo fold into the 2D saddle-shape of both positive and negative curvature,

4} ive not seen the Shashbo fold into a  2D two frequency triangle,

5} if not seen the the Shashibo fold into a 2-frequency tetrahedron,

6} ive not seen the Shashibo fold into a 3D tetrahedron,

7} ive not seen the Shashibo fold into the 12 vertexes of the VE, or,

8} the phase  of a semi-complete, 5-fold icosahedron.

NOte: in keeping with topic of 8-cells, the VE jbug has 8 surface triangles and 6 surface squares
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@Sidewalker
When we take an honest look, there appear to be underlying patterns and forms in nature, predetermined genetic pathways.  Rather than primary instruction sets, genes are revealed to be modifying influences selecting from a limited number of possible solutions intrinsic in life forms.  Life shows itself to be based on self-organizing principles that adhere to underlying patterns of form.  It is not just the same gene complex creating wolves in both Australia and elsewhere after millions of years but also different genes producing homologous organs as they follow underlying laws of form. Arms, legs, wings, and flippers have evolved in completely dissimilar creatures for entirely different purposes, yet they have developed profoundly similar designs.  Science has obviously ignored some basic principle underlying the whole process.

Ideas?
Same research that led to the conclusion humans evolved from Apes. And birds from dinosaurs.

14 days later

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@Sidewalker
I'm putting it that way because out of all people, you definitely look at things differently, and you see things the rest of us don't see.
Sidewalker, you may want to visit Figenbaum constant ---in Technology catagory my thread ' Natures Balancing Act via 4.449...and consider if  the below early on randomness.  I dunno if it applys or not.

.... ' The cells divided randomly until they reached the 8-cell stage, a stage where all embryos suddenly started to look the same. "After looking very different in the first stages, embryos seemed to converge toward each other's shape at the end of the 8-cell stage," Hannezo continues. But how come? What brings structure to this chaos?

An embryonal Rubik's cube -- cell cluster optimizes its packing '....

Over the years, if said the closet we come to true random-ness is the prime numbers, once we place to the side the semi-order I found geometrically { radial hexagon } for their n * 6 plus or minus 1, is where { location } all primes except 2p and 3p can be found, for the all primes and not just that do seemingly randomly occur.

That algebraic equation is what Imath professor at Oxford informed of after reading my geometric hexagonal and more conjectures on primes. Limiting factors and that is true also of Figenbaum if you look at post #2 in the Natures Balancing Act thread.


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When we take an honest look, there appear to be underlying patterns and forms in nature, predetermined genetic pathways.  Rather than primary instruction sets, genes are revealed to be modifying influences selecting from a limited number of possible solutions intrinsic in life forms.  Life shows itself to be based on self-organizing principles that adhere to underlying patterns of form.  It is not just the same gene complex creating wolves in both Australia and elsewhere after millions of years but also different genes producing homologous organs as they follow underlying laws of form. Arms, legs, wings, and flippers have evolved in completely dissimilar creatures for entirely different purposes, yet they have developed profoundly similar designs.  Science has obviously ignored some basic principle underlying the whole process.

Ideas?
Same research that led to the conclusion humans evolved from Apes. And birds from dinosaurs.
They are finding dinosaur bones in New York proving once again apes came from Europe according to Darwin.
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@Shila
Shila, please take a hike from my threads ive started, as you now quote people and dont tag them, as you continually just want to pollute my threads with you content.

PLease do me a respectful favor and back all the way off from my threads with toxic pollution. #11 above is just another example of this new, or old, toxic tactic of yours.
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@FLRW
It's time to rethink what created the Universe.
What is wrong with the theories we have on creation?
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Physics > Biological life and ...The eight fold way in chemistry of biologic life --as sort of suggested previously above--- and in physics also.

..."Just like the periodic table of chemistry, however, the peculiar arrangement of this diagram is also trying to teach us something. You might think that it would be useful to arrange these mesons according to the quark content. There are two problems with this:
  1. The eightfold way was developed before quarks were experimentally discovered. (Actually, the eightfold way provided and important part of the theoretical structure that led people to suspect that quarks might be real!)
  2. As we saw for the etas, some mesons are not well defined in terms of individual quark/anti-quark pairs but rather as quantum superpositions of several types of quark/anti-quark pair. In fact, this is true for the neutal pions and kaons as well.
.....So the Eightfold Way is not quite organized according to quark content, at least not directly. The structure of the diagram is actually based on the symmetries of the mesons. The branch of mathematics that describes symmetries is called group theory (in particular, representation theory) and is now a staple in the education of every particle physicist.

...Relation to modern ideas

....This has an interesting relation to very modern ideas for of physics beyond the Standard Model. Models of extra dimensions predict an analogous “tower” of copies of known particles, the so-called Kaluza-Klein tower. Because this KK tower looks just like the tower of mesons. We understand that the meson tower comes from the fact that they are composite particles, so it looks like theories of extra dimensions mimic theories of composite particles like mesons. This is one of the key observations underlying the so called holographic principle or gauge/gravity correspondence in which theories of extra dimensions are “dual” to strongly coupled theories.

....In a broader sense, the discussion above represents a deep theme in particle physics where symmetry became the central principle for how we understand nature (I’ve mentioned this before!). These days one of the fundamental tools of a theoretical physicist is group theory (the mathematical description of symmetries) and models of new physics aren’t described so much by the individual particles but by the symmetry content of the theory. "...

Triangle {  3 } = 2-fold area as structural integrity > minimal 3D volumetric poyhedren of Universe is the 4 triangles of tetrahedron

Cube { 4 } = systemically transform-able non-stable squares see Vector Equilibrium aka a cube with its corners truncated.

Box jellies have --species of oldest species of animal on Earth comb jellies--- has 24 eyes aka 3 * 8 = 24
The VE has several aspects related to number 24, that ive posted around here for years

Shila, please do not respond to this or any of the threads ive started. Your a polluting the DArt atmosphere.
#15
Shila
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@Sidewalker
Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
Great examples. Butterflies are not mammals.
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@Shila
Shila please take a hike from all threads ive created.  Your toxic pollution and lack of respect is further evidence of a lack of moral integrity.
#17
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@Sidewalker
Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.
The topic is about mammals. Butterflies are not mammals.
#18
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@Shila
Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
Great examples. Butterflies are not mammals.
You didn't read the study he posted, apparently you didn't get past the title, how about you read the post and the article it is about, and maybe you can get your head out of your ass and say something relevant Non-Sequitur Man.

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@Sidewalker
You didn't read the study he posted, apparently you didn't get past the title, how about you read the post and the article it is about, and maybe you can get your head out of your ass and say something relevant Non-Sequitur Man.
I was commenting on what YOU posted.
Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
But you don’t study butterflies to understand mammals.
Because butterflies are not mammals. The topic is about mammals.
#20
Sidewalker
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@Shila
You didn't read the study he posted, apparently you didn't get past the title, how about you read the post and the article it is about, and maybe you can get your head out of your ass and say something relevant Non-Sequitur Man.
I was commenting on what YOU posted.
Take the butterfly, you have a caterpillar that at a certain point in time, grows a cocoon, then the caterpillar liquefies, and this homogenous liquid, with no structure at all, it slowly assembles into a butterfly, a completely different creature emerges from the cocoon, full grown and able to fly....from a liquid.

We are just going to have to look deeper to understand it.
But you don’t study butterflies to understand mammals.
Because butterflies are not mammals. The topic is about mammals.
I get it, you saw the word mammal in the title and that's everything you can grasp about the thread, you haven't read the article posted, so you don't understand anything about the thread, and even less about what I posted. You still have your head up your ass and are still desperate for attention, so blah blah blah, non-sequitur nonsense is all you can comprehend.

"Mommy, Mommy, look at me, look at me."

OK, now it's your turn to say something really stupid.


.


#21
Shila
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@Sidewalker
I get it, you saw the word mammal in the title and that's everything you can grasp about the thread, you haven't read the article posted, so you don't understand anything about the thread, and even less about what I posted. You still have your head up your ass and are still desperate for attention, so blah blah blah, non-sequitur nonsense is all you can comprehend.

"Mommy, Mommy, look at me, look at me."

OK, now it's your turn to say something really stupid.
The word mammal is found in the article posted.

It is research on the embryos of mammals. See excerpt:
The international team of researchers has built a comprehensive atlas of early mammalian morphogenesis -- the process of an organism developing shape and structure -- analyzing how mouse, rabbit, and monkey embryos develop in space and time. Based on this atlas, they see that individual events such as cell divisions and movements are highly chaotic, yet the embryos as a whole end up looking very similar to one another. With this dataset, they propose a physical model that explains how a mammalian embryo builds structure from chaos.
#22
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@Shila
Post #12 ebuc

Shila, please take a hike from my threads I've started, as you now quote people and don't tag them, as you continually just want to pollute my threads with you content.

Please do me a respectful favor and back all the way off from my threads with toxic pollution. 

#23
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Shila, please take a hike from my threads I've started, as you now quote people and don't tag them, as you continually just want to pollute my threads with you content.

Please do me a respectful favor and back all the way off from my threads with toxic pollution. 
I don’t even reply to his posts. Yet he has been stalking me. He should follow his own advice and back off.
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#24
ebuc
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@Shila
I don’t even reply to his posts. Yet he has been stalking me. He should follow his own advice and back off.

Shila, please have some integrity of moral respect and back off from posting in my thread ive started.  Your pollution to the DArt atmosphere.
#25
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Sidewalker is on a dog leash held by Elon Musk.

He tried to get his mommy’s attention by crying out loud “"Mommy, Mommy, look at me, look at me."
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#26
ebuc
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@Shila
Shila, please do me a favor and attempt to have some integrity of moral decency by taking a hike from any threads ive started.