Elon Musk BTFO FDR regulated crony capitalism in less than 60 seconds.
Posts
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39
I saw this. It's very honorable on his part and the way real capitalists are supposed to be. They should be competitive not seeking the government to bail out poor business practices that can't self generate profit.
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@Greyparrot
I saw it. Awkwardly channeling John Galt.
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@WyIted
I saw this. It's very honorable on his part and the way real capitalists are supposed to be.
honorable? What about that was honorable? He's trying to protect his walled garden. At the moment, his private charging network is probably the biggest selling feature of Teslas. If the government actually funds a charging network then his leg up on his rivals is gone.
He's not saying "I want a fair race" he's saying "i'm already ahead in the race, so I want to prevent any competitor getting help to catch up". His views are anti-competitive.
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@HistoryBuff
I saw this. It's very honorable on his part and the way real capitalists are supposed to be.honorable? What about that was honorable?
Refusing to accept stolen goods is honorable.
His views are anti-competitive.
Nothing quite as fair and competitive as stealing and giving the money to "competitors", surely an economy based on that practice will bring prosperity to all. *looks out window, sees everything burning* right...
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Refusing to accept stolen goods is honorable.
lol no. Trying to block public funding is not "accepting stolen goods". The government wants to spend money to make the country better. Elon wants to protect his own little fief to protect Tesla's share value. Because once that share value starts to really fall, his networth collapses.
Nothing quite as fair and competitive as stealing and giving the money to "competitors", surely an economy based on that practice will bring prosperity to all.
no idea what you're even talking about.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Nothing quite as fair and competitive as stealing and giving the money to "competitors"
Communists and capitalists have different definition of the word "fair" heh
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@HistoryBuff
from thievesElon wants to protect his own little fief
no idea what you're even talking about.
You have no idea what you're talking about either.
When asked to condemn the nazi's, he would only say there was very fine people on both sides.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Elon wants to protect his own little fieffrom thieves
again, that doesn't make any sense. The protection is the government not helping by building infrastructure.
no idea what you're even talking about.You have no idea what you're talking about either.
how can I know what i'm talking about when you aren't saying anything meaningful? You just keep making vague statements about theft without being specific about anything.
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@HistoryBuff
Did you even watch the clip? He literally refused to accept tax subsidies for R and D.
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@Greyparrot
Did you even watch the clip? He literally refused to accept tax subsidies for R and D.
Yes, that is my point. He is in the lead, the last thing he wants is a subsidy that would allow other companies to catch up. He wants to wall off the garden. If no improvements were made at all, he wins.
It's not that he doesn't want the money or wouldn't benefit from the money, he's afraid of the competition the money would create.
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@HistoryBuff
how can I know what i'm talking about
Can't help you there.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
how can I know what i'm talking aboutCan't help you there.
of course you can. The reason I don't know is that you aren't telling me what you mean. You could be talking about taxes, tariffs, actual thieves etc. It's hard to know what we're talking about when all you say is vague nonsense.
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@HistoryBuff
When you're willing to ignore obvious facts being precise doesn't help much.
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@HistoryBuff
a subsidy that would allow other companies to catch up.
How is that going to happen if it's Musk getting that subsidy? He refused to take the R and D subsidy. Then he said others could have it. You are literally just making up words at this point.
Beyond that obvious comprehension error on your part, could you attempt to explain why you value crony capitalism fueled with stolen and printed money?
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@HistoryBuff
lol no. Trying to block public funding is not "accepting stolen goods". The government wants to spend money to make the country better.
This is this issues with liberalism in general. We understand the goal is to make the country better but economic intervention makes it worse take a look at the eco comic freedom index
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@WyIted
Using public funds to pay off private enterprise to control economic production and trade favors for power is literally a fascist controlled economy. I thought we learned from history....
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@HistoryBuff
no idea what you're even talking about.
Oh, come on—you of all people should know better than to support arbitrary subsidies that lead to crony capitalism. After all, isn't it progressives who consistently champion fairness and equality? By using public funds to prop up private businesses, the government isn’t "leveling the playing field," it's stacking the deck in favor of corporations that cozy up to politicians, or worse, cozy up to their flawed and untested ideas of economics. Instead of rewarding innovation or efficiency, these subsidies hand-pick winners, creating an economy where the well-connected thrive, and everyone else, especially small businesses, gets left behind. Shouldn't we be fighting for a truly fair market, not one manipulated by political favors and inexperienced government flunkies?
It’s almost embarrassing how subsidies, under the guise of economic support, often become tools of unending corporate welfare. Large companies, with their armies of lobbyists, are the real winners here, getting payouts that smaller businesses can't even dream of accessing. The result? The rich get richer while genuine competition—the lifeblood of any dynamic economy—dies a slow death. And don’t even pretend this benefits the public; higher prices, fewer choices, and stifled innovation are hardly what any progressive would call a win for the "people." And you have the gall to claim Musk wouldn't benefit from it financially...
And here’s the kicker—this all edges dangerously close to a fascist-style economy where the state and big business are so intertwined that you can’t tell where one ends and the other begins. When the government uses your tax dollars to control economic outcomes through subsidies, it becomes less about what's best for society and more about who can scratch whose back in the corridors of power. Does that really align with the values of equality and justice that progressives hold so dear? It's a system where the powerful stay powerful, and that’s the exact opposite of the egalitarian world you’re striving for, right? You should dump crony fascism like a hot potato.
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@Greyparrot
You [HistoryBuff] of all people should know better than to support arbitrary subsidies that lead to crony capitalism.
I haven't seen any indication that he knows anything better than anyone.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I'm a very generous person here and IRL.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I saw it. Awkwardly channeling John Galt.
Who is John Galt?
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@HistoryBuff
Yes, that is my point. He is in the lead, the last thing he wants is a subsidy that would allow other companies to catch up. He wants to wall off the garden. If no improvements were made at all, he wins.
HP.......Attempting to have logical, common sense critical thinking conversation with a MADA { Make America Dumb Again aka Trumpet cult supporter { ex Elon Musk } is like trying to have a logical, common sense critical thinking conversation with a drunkard, or an evangelistic person of any of the three primary Biblical religions,
it will go no where because, they is mental blockage to relative and/or absolute truth, in varying degrees, with each of these individuals.
They see humanity in black and white. There is no in between sharing of common ground or cooperation with narracistic MADA who lack compassion and empathy to varying degrees
I saw last night on TV how Rudy Guliani's daughter was sad that she lost her dad to cult of narcissistic Trumpet.
end date for humanity 1965 > 2015 >> 2065? >>> 2115? >>>> 2165?
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@Greyparrot
Beyond that obvious comprehension error on your part, could you attempt to explain why you value crony capitalism fueled with stolen and printed money?
lol the framing of this question is ridiculous. Why do I value the government investing in making our lives better? maybe because I want our lives to be better.
Capitolism often pushes companies to do things that will improve society. People want a product, therefore they are willing to pay for a product, therefore companies make the product in order to earn a profit. But there are lots of times where this does not track. The thing that is in the best interests of the people and society isn't as profitable as the alternative, so companies are incentivized not to do what is best for society and the people. That is why we have a government.
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@Greyparrot
lol the framing of this question is ridiculous.
Translation: Why would I address reality when I have a fantasy I could talk about?
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@WyIted
This is this issues with liberalism in general. We understand the goal is to make the country better but economic intervention makes it worse take a look at the eco comic freedom index
Like anything, it is possible to do it well, or badly. If you do it well, everyone is better off. If you do it badly, then everyone is worse off. Take labor laws for example. Companies loved making their workers work as many hours as possible in unsafe conditions. This maximized profits for them. The government slowly forced them the improve worker treatment and ultimately we are all better off for it. If the government hadn't intervened, you would still have children getting their limbs ripped off in machinery, well more than we already do. see the case of Duvan Perez from mississipi as a modern example of children being sent to be killed in unsafe conditions.
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@Greyparrot
After all, isn't it progressives who consistently champion fairness and equality?
for people, yes. The governments job is to make the country better for the people. Companies are not people.
it's stacking the deck in favor of corporations that cozy up to politicians, or worse, cozy up to their flawed and untested ideas of economics.
that is certainly one possible outcome. Another is using public funding to actually make life better for people rather than leave it in the hands of corporations that would literally let you and your whole family die if it saved them a bit of money.
Instead of rewarding innovation or efficiency, these subsidies hand-pick winners, creating an economy where the well-connected thrive, and everyone else, especially small businesses, gets left behind.
you're assuming capitalism rewards efficiency. It doesn't. It rewards those who are willing to be the most cut throat.
Large companies, with their armies of lobbyists, are the real winners here
I agree. All lobbying should be banned. This is not a criticism of public funding, this is a criticism or capitalism being allowed to taint politics.
And don’t even pretend this benefits the public; higher prices, fewer choices, and stifled innovation are hardly what any progressive would call a win for the "people."
Unregulated capitalism leads to monopolies. This is the ultimate situation of higher prices, fewer choices and stifled innovation. Every company salivates over the idea of creating a monopoly. And left to their own devices, some companies will succeed. The only method of stopping this is government intervention.
And here’s the kicker—this all edges dangerously close to a fascist-style economy where the state and big business are so intertwined that you can’t tell where one ends and the other begins.
you're just describing the republican party.
When the government uses your tax dollars to control economic outcomes through subsidies, it becomes less about what's best for society and more about who can scratch whose back in the corridors of power.
I agree that the downsides need to be controlled. IE banning lobbying, 100% publicly funded elections, criminal sanctions for accepting bribes etc. But that doesn't diminish the significant value of public funding.
You should dump crony fascism like a hot potato.
absolutely. But subsidies are a tool that can be used for good, or evil. It is only "crony fascism" if we allow it to be. You know, like how Elon Musk is buying trump right now.
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@HistoryBuff
What is your area of focus regarding history?
Only Generals or Admirals should be President of the USA.
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@HistoryBuff
you're just describing the republican party.
Am I? The largest hotbeds of crony capitalism exists in all major cities. Nearly none of them run by Republicans.
I suppose your answer is testimony to the effectiveness of criminal propaganda.
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@Greyparrot
So you are saying that if Trump is NOT elected, this will be the last election. Far from being a threat to democracy, he is the only way to save it?