Has police brutality ever existed?
It's been a myth that the media has spread for awhile.
Has police brutality ever existed?
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35
controlled opposition bot
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@Mall
Has police brutality ever existed?
Yes.
Police represent the law. Everything that law does is legal by tautology. Police brutality doesnt exist and cannot exist.
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@Best.Korea
Ahh, thought of it a while.
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@Mall
We have videos of this stuff. I’m not saying that the media hasn’t blown it a little out of proportion, but it has and still does happen. George Floyd and Briana Taylor did die from police brutality. You can argue that it isn’t common all you want, but don’t say that these people didn’t actually die.
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@Moozer325
George Floyd died from a speed ball combined with a weak heart.George Floyd
You're only making the sock puppet's point by using a fake story.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
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@Moozer325
That's a video of a man dying of a drug overdose while another person happens to be kneeling on his upper spinal column. The spinal column is firmly attached to the rib cage and skull and it is all but impossible to compress the windpipe with dorsal force against a flat surface. Not without breaking bones, and if you break the vertebrae or ribs that's kind of the main issue.
"Chauvin pulls him to the street, we don't know why"
Oh yes you do, Floyd asked to get out of the car and to be put on the street and any honest journalist would have watched the full array of recordings before making a mini documentary. Therefore we can conclude that either this narrator isn't a journalist or isn't honest. Now Moozer, I have said you're the only left-triber who even tries. Don't make me regret the benefit of the doubt, you can watch the whole recording and to show me that you are a person who is interested in the truth I want you to admit that this "journalist" is absolutely wrong when she said "we don't know why".
Now you explain please:
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Sorry if that came off as rude, I was genuinely asking.
That's a video of a man dying of a drug overdose while another person happens to be kneeling on his upper spinal column.
Seems a little improbable that he died of an OD at the exact moment when he appeared to be getting suffocated, but I’ll hear you out.
The spinal column is firmly attached to the rib cage and skull and it is all but impossible to compress the windpipe with dorsal force against a flat surface. Not without breaking bones, and if you break the vertebrae or ribs that's kind of the main issue.
Can I get a source for this? Not that I don’t believe you, but I think it’s understandable that I want to hear this from a doctor or something.
Oh yes you do, Floyd asked to get out of the car and to be put on the street and any honest journalist would have watched the full array of recordings before making a mini documentary. Therefore we can conclude that either this narrator isn't a journalist or isn't honest.
I wasn’t able to find a good source for the full video, can you point me to one?
I think the point you’re trying to make is about the drugs he had in his system at the time. While the report does list the drugs he was on, and his preexisting heart condition, it actually comes to the conclusion that it was because of the police officer, “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.“
Floyd’s heart condition did probably contribute some to his death because it was larger than normal and thus needed more oxygen. However the medical examiner testified that the biggest cause of death was the police officer leaning on his neck.
It did but it wasn't targeted towards blacks. It was just because they were bullies. They are significantly more professional now
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@Moozer325
That's a video of a man dying of a drug overdose while another person happens to be kneeling on his upper spinal column.Seems a little improbable that he died of an OD at the exact moment when he appeared to be getting suffocated, but I’ll hear you out.
It is even more 'improbable' that 'physical suffocation' caused Floyd to have trouble breathing before it began.
He wasn't suffocated. You can't suffocate someone that way. You maybe can cause a blood clot if it lasts for long enough. There was no blood clot, no bruising. If he appeared to be suffocated to you it is because you don't understand human anatomy. Luckily you own a specimen to inspect. I invite you to lay on the ground and have someone try to suffocate you by applying pressure to your upper back, neck, or skull. It may be uncomfortable, unbearably so, but it will not close your windpipe.
Force on the rib cage would impede breathing but the weight would need to be very large and partial lung expansion into the abdominal cavity would still be possible; people have had small horses fall on them and still been able to breathe enough to stay alive.
That is besides the point however because that is not what the video shows nor was chauvin heavy enough even if he was sitting on the rib-cage.
The spinal column is firmly attached to the rib cage and skull and it is all but impossible to compress the windpipe with dorsal force against a flat surface. Not without breaking bones, and if you break the vertebrae or ribs that's kind of the main issue.Can I get a source for this? Not that I don’t believe you, but I think it’s understandable that I want to hear this from a doctor or something.
Whether or not it's understandable you will have to think about it yourself if you wish to debate it, or do the experiment. I have debated this before (on this site) and found some study which noted what I just stated. The opposition in that thread just ignored it because they had their own "expert" (not a study).
Let's save me some time searching through my post history, are you going to refuse to look at the geometry yourself or do the experiment in favor of picking the "expert" who confirms your bias?
Oh yes you do, Floyd asked to get out of the car and to be put on the street and any honest journalist would have watched the full array of recordings before making a mini documentary. Therefore we can conclude that either this narrator isn't a journalist or isn't honest.I wasn’t able to find a good source for the full video, can you point me to one?
Not full but fuller:
at 3:48 he says he's claustrophobic (and thus doesn't want to be in the car)
BTW if he seems like he's having a meltdown and randomly losing his footing it's because he swallowed the dangerous dose of drugs while in the other car (civilian car).
6:30 "I'll get on the ground, anything"
I am 90% sure if they had left him in the back seat of the cruiser that is where he would have died and then the lying propagandists would have said the police murdered him by causing a panic attack (claustrophobia).
Let's review, this troll thread is about "police brutality", and out of all the very real abuses of policing in America we're talking about a man who took a lethal dose of drugs before refusing the cushioned back seat of a production SUV. That is not an example of "brutality".
Watching anyone die is not a nice thing, but he really did do this to himself. When he said "I can't breathe, I took too many drugs" that is the damn truth and he needed to A) not take too many drugs or B) say he took too many drugs before it's too late so people can get medical support.
I think the point you’re trying to make is about the drugs he had in his system at the time.
At concentrations that have killed people before. Of the type of drugs that produce exactly the symptoms he showed.
While the report does list the drugs he was on, and his preexisting heart condition, it actually comes to the conclusion that it was because of the police officer
nano-grams per milliliters is science. An assertion unsupported by observations is not, being in the same document as reported observations does not change that.
Floyd’s heart condition did probably contribute some to his death because it was larger than normal and thus needed more oxygen
because large hearts need more oxygen? That's a bizzare and irrelevant premise. The human body needs oxygen you don't need to make up reasons. His heart stopped because he took a lethal dose of drugs and if were arguing about whether it would have stopped 30 seconds later without slight pressure on his rib cage, or his recent covid, or his bad heart health in general we're clearly far outside of the realm of clear police brutality.
If this is the best example or even in the top 100 best examples of "police brutality" then a reasonable person must conclude there isn't a problem.
However the medical examiner testified that the biggest cause of death was the police officer leaning on his neck.
I'll stick with the science, you should too; and if you're claiming that this neck kneeling thing can only known to be dangerous after careful study by "experts" then it's hardly a candidate for "brutality". If someone is allergic to broccoli and nobody tells the chef that doesn't mean the chef is brutal or that there is a systematic problem with "chef brutality".
Unless you're claiming the officers are trained to be "brutal" there is no case here.
These cops were railroaded, and they need to be released and compensated. Again, terrible example of "police brutality", a counter example really. "Look at how out of control the perception of police brutality is, they're sending people to prison for murder because they arrested someone who is overdosing".
The Hennepin County medical examiner's office ruled Floyd's death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest" complicated by "restraint, and neck compression" while he was being subdued by police.
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@Moozer325
There was plenty of discussion on this topic for me to learn that you are not getting anywhere.
As long as one side of debate has excuse like drugs to blame it for death, its pointless.
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@FLRW
The Hennepin County medical examiner's office ruled Floyd's death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest" complicated by "restraint, and neck compression" while he was being subdued by police.
I think he resisted arrest and the police just did what the protocol says.
Most of the supposed police brutality is caused by arresting resistance. Police is meant to maintain public order in cities and for that they need to have the monopoly on violence. Without it it's impossible to maintain the public order.
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@Best.Korea
There was plenty of discussion on this topic for me to learn that you are not getting anywhere.
There were more threads than just that, that isn't even one of the long ones.
This one started with babbitt but quickly turned into another george floyd one: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7985-maga-martyr?page=1
Here are some highlights
me citing a study on fentanyl death and using some of the more mystical forms of math (division) https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7985/posts/345754
As long as one side of debate has excuse like drugs to blame it for death, its pointless.
pointless because there was no point to make. You eat poison and then die in the way the poison kills you of course it's going to create reasonable doubt.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
There were more threads than just that, that isn't even one of the long ones
Yeah, there were many debates about it, I cant find all, but ultimately, it all lead to nowhere.
There were many other cases of police brutality that actually were proven beyond reasonable doubt, and sentenced too.
I dont know why both sides focus on the one example that favors neither side. Is it just challenge?
I guess other cases may not have anything to discuss about due to being too obvious and undeniable.
But it seems strange to me that actual examples of police brutality are ignored and put to side.
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@Best.Korea
The deep state created the media storm. Then the left-tribe (as always) refused to talk about anything else, going so far as to say things like "it isn't political" (I just want to radically change public policy because of it).I dont know why both sides focus on the one example that favors neither side. Is it just challenge?
They did not have a great number of cases to work with. Most police brutality does not result in death (or involve death at all), and brutality is only a small subset of police abuses. Furthermore they had no use for examples where the police officer was a "minority" or the victim wasn't enough of a "minority".
They had a time limit, it was an election year and people would not riot in winter (as hard), plus the lockdowns had created a powder keg that would become less potent with time.
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@Moozer325
Oh you think police officers are brutal.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Respect for the dead .
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@Mall
I think that a low percentage of police officers are racist, and that an even lower percent act on that bias when enforcing the law.
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@Moozer325
No such thing as a "racist police officers". Oxymoron.
Unless unjust discrimination on so called race is legal.
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@Mall
That’s just short-sighted in my opinion. To be racist, you just have to have a racial bias in judgment, you don’t even have to act on it. Are you telling me that out of the roughly 700,000 police officers, not a single one has a slight racial bias? Every person is biased in some way.
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@Moozer325
Why do you respond to the controlled opposition sock puppet more than anyone else?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I’m gonna be honest, I did not see that you responded to me. I thought you were the one who wasn’t responding. Lol.
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@Moozer325
No, no police officer is so called racist.
A so called racist can impersonate an officer.
As soon as you act not in the name of the law, you're no longer a law enforcer albeit being mislabeled as one .
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@Moozer325
Alright, but still you have got to see that Mall is not a serious person. Probably, as I said a sock puppet; potentially run by an algorithm.I’m gonna be honest, I did not see that you responded to me. I thought you were the one who wasn’t responding. Lol.
Unless unjust discrimination on so called race is legal.
This is a known joke: https://www.tiktok.com/@kimtoonz_7/video/7132891385568431365?lang=en
People who don't know it's a joke have fundamental conceptual dysfunction.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Alright, but still you have got to see that Mall is not a serious person. Probably, as I said a sock puppet; potentially run by an algorithm.
I don’t think he’s a public, he’s probably just dumb or gets his media from one place.
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@Mall
No, no police officer is so called racist.A so called racist can impersonate an officer.As soon as you act not in the name of the law, you're no longer a law enforcer albeit being mislabeled as one .
I don’t understand. That has nothing to do with what I said.
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@Moozer325
or gets his media from one place.
There is no media stupid enough to make a person think that police officers are physically incapable of breaking the law or enforcing the law incorrectly, or to be more precise no media can make a person that stupid.
This is intentional trolling/sock-puppetry or he has a mental disability.