The Duality of Libs

Author: Swagnarok

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Swagnarok
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Libs in 2019: "Adjusted for inflation, the (Federal) minimum wage is lower today than it's been in a very long time. Once the price of living goes up, it stays permanently higher while the (Federal) minimum wage stays the same, meaning the income of minimum wage workers is less than it was before. This is wage theft! We don't believe this problem can be solved by people moving up to higher paying jobs or getting raises. Likewise, arguments that the Federal minimum wage isn't a problem because few people make that little are nothing more than late stage capitalist propaganda. Rather, the system is fundamentally broken and we need drastic reforms to the government."

Libs in 2024: LMAO, what do you MAGA conservative fascists mean by "inflation"? Sure, the price of everything has gone way up since Biden took office, whereas inflation wasn't that bad in the year 2020, but it doesn't matter because every worker in America got a kajillion dollar raise sometime in the last three years. Proof? Uh, uh, well we say it happened, and you must believe us! The Federal minimum wage is still at $7.25 like it was in 2019, but it's no longer a problem just because we declare it isn't! Nobody is making minimum wage anymore whereas everybody and their mother was in 2019! Why not? Because we say so! Also, you ignorant peons should be grateful to the glorious leader President Biden that further inflation has slowed, because we willfully mistake this for high prices actually falling back to pre-Biden levels."
Double_R
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@Swagnarok
Sure, the price of everything has gone way up since Biden took office, whereas inflation wasn't that bad in the year 2020
Inflation is the result of the aftermath of COVID, which didn't begin till 2021 when vaccines became readily available and people went back to work. It didn't happen under Trump because he was already booted out of office by then.

but it doesn't matter because every worker in America got a kajillion dollar raise sometime in the last three years. Proof? Uh, uh, well we say it happened, and you must believe us! 
AI Overview

Inflation and wages have been moving in different directions in recent years:
  • 2021–2022 
    Inflation exceeded wage growth from the beginning of 2021 to the end of 2022, which negatively impacted the real value of American wages. 
  • 2023–2024 
    Since April 2023, wages have been growing faster than inflation: 
    • April 2024: Inflation was 3.4%, while wages grew by 4.7% 
    • June 2024: Nominal wages rose 4.2% while inflation was up 3.3%, resulting in real wage gains of 0.9% 
    • July 2024: Real pay grew across all pay and inflation measures, with Total Compensation generally showing the biggest increases
The Federal minimum wage is still at $7.25 like it was in 2019, but it's no longer a problem just because we declare it isn't!
No one on the left is saying this. Harris repeatedly talks about raising the minimum wage to large cheering crowds at her rallies

you ignorant peons should be grateful to the glorious leader President Biden that further inflation has slowed, because we willfully mistake this for high prices actually falling back to pre-Biden levels.
The only people who mistake getting inflation back under control (which it currently is) and deflation are the idiots who say they're going to vote for Trump so he can make groceries affordable again.
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Under Trump, 16% of people didnt even have wage.

They were unemployed. Their wage was 0.
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@Double_R
No, wage growth did not consistently outpace inflation in all months following April 2023. While there have been periods where wages grew faster than inflation, this trend has not been uniform or consistent across all months. Economic data from mid-2023 shows that there were fluctuations in both wage growth and inflation rates, meaning that in some months, wages did indeed rise faster than inflation, while in other months, inflation either matched or exceeded wage growth.

For example, certain months might show a temporary spike in inflation due to factors like rising energy prices or supply chain disruptions, which can outpace wage growth during those times. Similarly, wage growth can be influenced by various factors such as changes in labor demand, shifts in the job market, or policy interventions, leading to uneven patterns over time.

Therefore, while there may have been instances where wages grew faster than inflation, it would be inaccurate to say that this has been the case consistently in all months since April 2023.

While it’s true that there have been periods where nominal wages increased more than inflation, this trend has not been consistent across all months. Economic data from mid-2023 shows fluctuations in both wage growth and inflation rates. In some months, wages may have outpaced inflation, but in others, inflation either matched or exceeded wage growth, indicating a more nuanced situation than the claim suggests.

Moreover, even in months where wage growth did outpace inflation, the overall impact on workers’ purchasing power might not be as significant as the claim implies. High inflation over an extended period has already eroded much of the value of wage increases, leaving many workers struggling to keep up with the rising costs of essentials like housing, food, and energy. The cumulative effects of inflation mean that many workers are still feeling the pinch, despite nominal wage gains, and may not see a substantial improvement in their financial situation.

Additionally, wage growth has not been evenly distributed across all sectors or income levels. Higher-income workers in certain industries might be seeing larger wage increases, while many low- and middle-income workers could experience little to no real wage growth. This disparity exacerbates economic inequality and undermines the idea that overall wage growth is effectively benefiting all workers. The claim, therefore, paints an overly optimistic picture that doesn’t fully account for the varied and uneven economic experiences of workers in different sectors and income brackets. For example, an airline pilot might have doubled his pay where a MAGA voter may have seen little to no wage increases.

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@Double_R
The only people who mistake getting inflation back under control (which it currently is)....
Great, we burned down the house, but we were the ones that put the fire out!!(which it currently is)...so re-elect us, Chud.
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@Greyparrot

For example, an airline pilot might have doubled his pay where a MAGA voter may have seen little to no wage increases.
Tru-dat!

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Median income is doing very well under Biden. 

The median household income is about $76,000

This is way better than the Trump years including his best year, 2019, and 2020 when he was giving out lots of welfare to help people after he bungled the response to Covid 

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The claim, therefore, paints an overly optimistic picture that doesn’t fully account for the varied and uneven economic experiences of workers in different sectors and income brackets. For example, an airline pilot might have doubled his pay where a MAGA voter may have seen little to no wage increases.
Wow, some truth courtesy of chatGPT

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Great, we burned down the house, but we were the ones that put the fire out!!(which it currently is)...so re-elect us, 
To be clear, Trump lit the fire in 2020. His poor handling of Covid caused more deaths and economic pain than was necessary.

His trillion dollar deficit established prior to Covid put us in a weak position to respond to an economic crisis.

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@Double_R
Inflation is the result of the aftermath of COVID, which didn't begin till 2021 when vaccines became readily available and people went back to work. It didn't happen under Trump because he was already booted out of office by then.
I fail to see what "people going back to work" has to do with inflation. They were spending money either way, thanks to stimulus checks passed by Congress (which, I guess to be fair, Trump signed off on). Which could've been avoided if they just didn't lock down in the first place. Since let's face it: everyone caught Covid anyway. Everyone continued to shop at Wal-Mart and routinely risk exposure to the virus and then bring it home to their loved ones. It's questionable how many lives the lockdowns saved in the first place, so people might as well have kept working.

But anyway, a butt ton of money was spent in 2020. Biden couldn't control that fact, fair enough. But then came January 3, then January 20th, and Dems had an effective trifecta, as VP Harris cast the tiebreaking vote in the Senate. And what did they do? Knowledgeable that the economy was already overheating, they passed the American Rescue Plan Act, a $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. It didn't even take Biden two months in office.

But okay, fine. Biden is only partly responsible for the inflation we've seen. It's still in poor taste for his supporters to brag about how great the economy supposedly is doing right now.

Inflation and wages have been moving in different directions in recent years:
  • 2021–2022 
    Inflation exceeded wage growth from the beginning of 2021 to the end of 2022, which negatively impacted the real value of American wages. 
  • 2023–2024 
    Since April 2023, wages have been growing faster than inflation: 
    • April 2024: Inflation was 3.4%, while wages grew by 4.7% 
    • June 2024: Nominal wages rose 4.2% while inflation was up 3.3%, resulting in real wage gains of 0.9% 
    • July 2024: Real pay grew across all pay and inflation measures, with Total Compensation generally showing the biggest increases
I've heard numbers to this vague effect before. First, I think they tell a misleading story. Inequality grew rapidly during Covid, and in the years following. I remember hearing that the rich added trillions to their net worth while the global economy contracted, and I'm sure that's also played itself out on a less dramatic level comparing, say, people who make $200K a year and people who make $25K a year. Which is to say I don't believe the above gains were distributed evenly, and millions of lower skilled, lower earning workers ended up in the red.

But let's look at some specific data:


The above link only gives results up until the end of 2022. Since whites are by far the largest demographic in the US, for them to have gained suggests that its data on wealth/income gained or lost doesn't account for inflation, since per your data the average citizen would've taken an inflation-adjusted loss in 2021 and 2022. This suggests that even not adjusting for inflation, blacks and Hispanics saw their income fall in 2021 and 2022, even if in the short term this was compensated for by stimulus checks and big boosts in welfare spending (which added to the national debt). Adjusting for inflation they got bum-effed hard. For 2023 and 2024 they likely saw no substantive gains but simply didn't get more worse off, with the lion's share of actual net growth going to whites, Asians, etc.
What this paints a picture of is a Biden economy where income rose faster than inflation for some, but not for marginalized groups.

Second, putting aside statistics, there are American workers who've genuinely gotten no raise at all between Jan. 2021 and now. I don't know what the size of this group is, but they exist and they were mega bum-effed because their inflation-adjusted income is only like 80-85% what it was before Biden took office.

No one on the left is saying this. Harris repeatedly talks about raising the minimum wage to large cheering crowds at her rallies

Fair enough, but my point was that, when it came to discussions about the minimum wage 5 or so years ago, the left recognized how disastrous inflation has been for working class people. Now they're downplaying it since this discussion is inconvenient for their man in the White House.
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@Swagnarok
Inflation is the result of the aftermath of COVID, which didn't begin till 2021 when vaccines became readily available and people went back to work. It didn't happen under Trump because he was already booted out of office by then.
I fail to see what "people going back to work" has to do with inflation.
It was more like the "pretending everything was fine even though no one was working by printing vast amounts of currency and thereby stealing from the, in reality, rapidly shrinking pool of wealth"

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@Greyparrot
No, wage growth did not consistently outpace inflation in all months following April 2023. While there have been...
Please stop using AI to make it sound like you are capable of writing out a thought out thesis
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@Swagnarok
I fail to see what "people going back to work" has to do with inflation.
It's not specifically about people going to work, it's about routines and spending habits going back to normal, only to find themselves in a very different world.

Take gas for example. Once COVID hit everyone stopped driving so the demand for oil plummeted, and so did it's prices. Some refineries were actually paying businesses to take it off their hands. Think of what that does industry wide. Many of the places that refine and distribute oil were stuck with overhead they could no longer meet and had to close down. Then comes 2021 and people get back on the roads, but now with a significant portion of the supply chain wiped out we no longer have the ability to meet the global demand, so prices spike.

Same thing happened with computer chips. COVID created a massive spike in the demand for laptops and tablets, so manufacturers adapted by shifting it's resources from motor vehicle production. Then COVID ends and people are looking to buy new cars again but the supply chain had already been shifted towards computers, so new vehicle prices spike on top of the computer spike we already saw. And once prices go up, no one is going to bring them back down.

There were many other factors as well, but the point is that inflation had little to anything to do with Joe Biden's policies, nor is there anything Donald Trump could have done to stop it. This was a global issue brought on by a global pandemic, it's what Joe Biden inherited. Blaming him or propping up Trump as the answer to inflation is fundamentally dishonest.

It's still in poor taste for his supporters to brag about how great the economy supposedly is doing right now.
Why? It's politics 101. If Donald Trump was president right now we would never hear the end of how this is the greatest economy in the history of planet earth. Hell Trump is even trying to take credit for the stock market gains this year claiming it's because people think he's coming back. You don't get to talk about poor taste in bragging while supporting the most egregious braggart we've ever seen in American political life.

What this paints a picture of is a Biden economy where income rose faster than inflation for some, but not for marginalized groups.
I never said anything about marginalized groups. My AI generated response was about your claim that the left is just saying "believe us" with nothing to back it up when the data clearly shows that wages have gone up. Have wages kept up with inflation? No of course not, but that's been the case for decades now so it's no surprise. Have minorities and poorer Americans been left largely behind? Yes, but again, that's been going on for decades as well. And regardless of all of that, you certainly haven't provided any reason why Joe Biden should be held responsible for it or how Donald Trump will do anything about it.

when it came to discussions about the minimum wage 5 or so years ago, the left recognized how disastrous inflation has been for working class people. Now they're downplaying it since this discussion is inconvenient for their man in the White House.
But again, it's politics 101. The right is just as bad if not worse (and I would argue way worse).

Inflation is a very complex and nuanced subject so it's far easier to just blame whoever is in the White House than to explain to people all of the intricacies of how the economy works and how it has been impacted, plus people have a severely overinflated sense of just what the president can do so we'd be battling that misconception at a fundamental level. It just isn't smart politically to go down that road. People are ignorant so we have to play the game within the simplistic terms people will understand.
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@Double_R
Please stop using AI to make it sound like you are capable of writing out a thought out thesis

You prefer to attack people? AI has feelings too
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@Double_R
Please stop using AI to make it sound like you are capable of writing out a thought out thesis
It’s perfect. chatGP

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“Grocery prices actually jumped sharply during Trump’s last year in office, as pandemic lockdowns disrupted the food supply chain and Americans were suddenly forced to eat more of their meals at home. Grocery inflation in June 2020 hit 5.6%. This was masked, however, by a plunge in other prices, as the global economy fell into pandemic recession”


Trump started the inflation when he botched the response to Covid. But that concept is too complex for MAGA MORONS to understand 

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Still lower than 9% in the cherry picking stat game.
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@Greyparrot
Remember when the President announced “Zero percent inflation” for July 2022?

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Still lower than 9% in the cherry picking stat game.
So if Trump was reelected the inflation would have stayed at 6%.

And you know this how?

Greyparrot
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There's no guarantee Trump would not have signed American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) in 2021, spending $1.9 trillion to overheat the economy and raise all the prices.

The fact is that Biden did indeed do it, and that's a big reason why he quit. 

"Don't care, still voting Trump" is rooted in the fact that orangemanbad is still better than bidenmanworse.
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There's no guarantee Trump would not have signed American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) in 2021, spending $1.9 trillion to overheat the economy and raise all the prices.
There’s no evidence that shows the economy “overheated” let alone it being caused by ARPA.

How did ARPA cause inflation in Europe?

The fact is that Biden did indeed do it, and that's a big reason why he quit.
As NPR accurately pointed out. Inflation began in the middle of 2020. Biden quit because of his terrible debate showing 

Don't care, still voting Trump" is rooted in the fact that orangemanbad is still better than bidenmanworse.
Yes, that would be the thinking of morons who can’t follow simple logic.

Logic - inflation began in 2020 as a result of Covid supply chain disruptions across the globe as people free of Covid restrictions increased demand for goods.
Covid caused 16% unemployment under Trump and his botched response.

Full employment with inflation is preferable to high unemployment with stable prices. Especially if you are one of the unemployed 
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Funny how you leave out the fact that it soared to 9% after ARPA....

A small detail in your mind.
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Funny how you leave out the fact that it soared to 9% after ARPA....
You mean the inflation set in motion by Trump with his botched response to Covid didn’t magically disappear as soon as Biden was sworn in?

If inflation was caused by the ARPA, how did it get started long before that legislation and why did worse inflation occur in Europe?

Funny how you don’t care to comment on what caused inflation in other countries if ARPA was the true cause of inflation 

Trump oversaw 8 trillion in deficit spending, but somehow you believe that wasn’t the cause of the inflation that began on his watch.

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what caused inflation in other countries 
you mean 3% inflation in China and Russia when USA had 9%? That's actually a good question  tell me more.
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you mean 3% inflation in China and Russia when USA had 9%? That's actually a good question  tell me more.
You mean those 2 countries in a recession didn’t have inflation? Tell me more genius 

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You mean those 2 countries in a recession didn’t have inflation? Tell me more genius 
You mean wealthy people had their stocks go down in value but with low inflation the average person had a better life. That's awesome.
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@WyIted
You mean wealthy people had their stocks go down in value but with low inflation the average person had a better life. That's awesome.
Are you suggesting that an economy in recession is preferred because you think it’s wealthy people who suffer in a recession? Unbelievable 

Yes recessions typically mean low inflation. It also means high unemployment, job loses, shrinking incomes, late payments, increased debt, eviction, repossessions.

In recessions, it’s the working poor who suffer. The rich simply find some bargains in the stock market or buy a couple bank owned properties at a discount.


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@IwantRooseveltagain
In recessions, it’s the working poor who suffer. The rich simply find some bargains in the stock market or buy a couple bank owned properties at a discount.
Yes the stock price of blue chip stocks decreasing effects people who do not own stocks. This is fact
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@WyIted
Yes the stock price of blue chip stocks decreasing affects people who do not own stocks.
You know what else effects people who do not own stocks? Being unemployed