What will they do?

Author: sadolite

Posts

Total: 89
sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,211
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
The national debt is now at 34.7 trillion dollars. It is not disputed by anyone that it can ever be paid off or even addressed in any meaningful way. The US dollar will collapse and the govt will default on all of its debts. This is 100% certain.

If elected what do you think each of the Presidential candidates would  do if this happens on their watch?


IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
We should legislate a wealth tax on billionaires 

We need to tax inheritances more on anything over 5 million. At least a 50% tax on inheritances over 5 million.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,269
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@sadolite
If elected what do you think each of the Presidential candidates would  do if this happens on their watch?
Nothing.

Or maybe you were asking what lie they would go with, who they would blame, and what meaningless pretended response would they order?


Well regardless of that the actual outcome would of course be hyperinflation for those living in the USA and those buying from the USA, and for those who don't have to deal with the USA they would basically assume all those bonds are now worthless (because they are).

It's just a round about way of deleting the debt, no politician is honest enough to use those words nor will they ever officially "default" on the debt.


This is 100% likely for any deep state puppet and Trump (although not a puppet) showed no insight or management into the federal reserve scam the last time so he would probably go with whatever the lying thieves told him this time as well.

Deep state would blame Iran, Putin, China, basically whoever they wanted to bomb next, probably China if there is a threat of it becoming the new center of governmental investment.

Trump would blame spending and immigrants. The first is true in a way (it's the stealing not the spending that is the problem), the second is only true insofar as it causes spending and spending requires stealing.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Its called debt trap.

Its something people fall for due to their low IQ.

A smart person like me thinks "I need to reduce my expenses and increase my income".

But a stupid person thinks like this:

"My monthly expenses are 1000$ but I only earn 800$.

So I will borrow 200$ so that I may cover my expenses for this month."

Then the debt trap comes in:

"The next month has come. Now this month, my expenses are still 1000$ and I still only earn 800$.

But now I also have 200$ debt, which makes my total expenses 400$ this month.

In order to cover expenses, I need to go further in debt, but this time I must borrow 400$ instead of 200$ to cover all expenses."

Basically, debt trap works on weak minded people because they dont see the fact that if you borrow money to cover expenses for one month, you are just doubling your expenses next month.

Usually, you would think people who got 16 years of education would know basic principles of economy, but no.

Debt trap works in such ways that debt can never be payed back without going further into debt.

Sadly, people are retarded and now USA has literally fallen into debt that is impossible to pay off, but the funny part is that USA is not the only one.

Almost all countries around the world are drowning in debt.

This is because the basic principle of economy is ignored.

Politicians promise all kinds of things to people. To fulfill at least some promises, they need to increase expenses. To cover expenses, they need to go into debt.

The only solution out of debt trap is increasing income greatly or reducing expenses greatly, or both.

But no politician wants to do either.

You get what you voted for.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
Nothing

What benefits do you get from government that you didn’t pay for?

How much do you contribute each year?
How much do you get?

Think National defense, the airport you use. The federal highways you use. What bridges have you crossed over? How much is your food (beef, sugar, corn, pork) subsidized by the government?
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Assuming everyone is okay with a significant cut in the standard of living, a 50% flat federal tax could eliminate the debt in about 18 years assuming for no additional spending/money printing.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Assuming everyone is okay with a significant cut in the standard of living
Its irrelevant if they are "okay" with it.

The standard of living will fall anyway, because economy cannot sustain constant growth in government budget expenses.

Its actually quite sad that population thinks how the stuff politicians promise them are actually free.

Nothing is free lmao

sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,211
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@IwantRooseveltagain
Face palm.  A 90% tax rate on every single person wont even come close to addressing the national debt. What part of it is unrepayable no matter what you do don't you understand. The days of taxing and addressing the the national debt have long passed. Default is 100% absolute. The national debt increases by 1 trillion every 100 days.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@sadolite
a 100% tax on billionaires most certainly won't come close to 2 extra trillion dollars. Math simply is not there.


They will have to go after the 100k people for a 90% rate to even come close to adding up to 2 trillion.


sadolite
sadolite's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,211
3
2
4
sadolite's avatar
sadolite
3
2
4
-->
@Greyparrot
Taxing everyone no matter what they make would do a damn thing.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
You cant tax your way out of this.

The only way is what I suggested long time ago.

Abolish healthcare from the budget and reduce military and social security.

Basically, get rid of any expense you can get rid of in government budget.

Or you can keep drowning in debt. Its a simple choice.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Chat GPT says taxing people who make 100k at 50% and taxing everyone below that at 25% is still less tax revenue than the current spending budget (by about a half a trillion).....god help us.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
still less tax revenue than the current spending budget
Solution: reduce budget spending.

Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
Like people who fall for the debt trap, you have cultists that fall for the government trap that promises a smaller government if you vote to give them more power.

The solution to a problem should never be the source of the problem.

According to AI, Homeopathy is generally considered to be debunked by the mainstream scientific and medical community.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
If you dont reduce government spending, then your only choice is to drown in debt.

Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 367
Posts: 11,096
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
The entire economy is actually very simple and based on one law alone.

You have total expenses and you have total income.

The goal is to have income to be bigger than expenses.

Same law works with energy and food consumption.

Its a simple, universal law.

Debt increases your expenses, so from an economical point of view, going into debt rarely makes economical sense.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,269
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Greyparrot
Assuming everyone is okay with a significant cut in the standard of living, a 50% flat federal tax could eliminate the debt in about 18 years assuming for no additional spending/money printing.
Incredibly Best.Korea took the words out of my mouth:

Assuming everyone is okay with a significant cut in the standard of living
it's irrelevant if they are "okay" with it.

The standard of living will fall anyway

We either die from taxes (theft) or die from inflation (theft). The only thing that could possibly turn it around would be:

A.) Stop the waste (they won't)
B.) Start transferring the economy over to Monero ASAP (no inflation, no auditing means taxes would be all but impossible to calculate much less collect)

Don't get caught up in the math about their monopoly money. They control it, they know they control it; and as long as people are looking at that instead of the production and consumption of goods and services they can keep the lie up.

The "debt" is just a word we're using for the wealth they've already stolen and wasted. To say we're no longer capable of paying it back is merely the admission that the means no longer exists to replace the stolen goods. That's not a good sign but it's not the end. Nothing needs to be paid back to anybody. Debt to the FED is pixie dust and debt to citizen investors and other countries simply means they were scammed.

The deep state (and all socialist governments) are parasites and while yes, they are killing the host right now; that doesn't mean we're dead yet. There is always hope given sufficiently radical suppression of the parasite.


Chat GPT says taxing people who make 100k at 50% and taxing everyone below that at 25% is still less tax revenue than the current spending budget (by about a half a trillion).....god help us.
Not sure if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. What people do not understand until they really understand what is going on here is that this is already the price we're paying.

You can't defer the whole economy on a promise. Yes there are people who are expecting a return on growth, really just getting a little bigger slice of the imaginary pie they've projected; but what matters is that any spending accomplished through "debt" is paid for through inflation.

It absolutely no different from taxing everyone at 50% and the prices not skyrocketing, and as they keep wasting more and more resources and our production compared to their waste keeps going down and down the tax rate would go up and up while the prices remained the same.

The ONLY difference is that it would be ABSOLUTELY obvious who the thieves ruining our lives would  be in that case and there could be mass civil disobedience. You can't mass civil disobedience inflation (except by using another currency, which is why they WILL attack crypto if it begins to be used that way).
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,826
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

We need to get the top tax rate back to 90 percent like the last smart republican president (Eisenhower) had. Otherwise the USA will collapse.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
AI says that's not enough.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
There is no need to payoff the debt. It just needs to be manageable. Like a mortgage for a household.

US GDP was 28 trillion for 2024. That would be a manageable amount of debt. 

Grow GDP and payoff some debt. The near term goal should be 30 trillion for debt and annual GDP. That’s very doable if we didn’t have Republicans 
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Like people who fall for the debt trap, you have cultists that fall for the government trap that promises a smaller government if you vote to give them more power.


IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
US GDP is at a current level of 28.63T, up from 28.27T last quarter and up from 27.06T one year ago. This is a change of 1.27% from last quarter and 5.79% from one year ago. US GDP or Gross Domestic Product is the total value of goods produced and services provided in the US.

5.8% annual growth of GDP is impressive. It’s double what Trump’s best growth was. Thanks Joe!

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
The 4 components of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) are consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports:
  • Consumption 
    Also known as personal consumption expenditures or consumer spending, this is the largest component of GDP and measures how much households spend on goods and services. Examples include buying groceries, clothing, and health care. 
  • Investment 
    This includes business spending on fixed assets like land, buildings, and equipment, as well as investment in unsold inventory and home purchases by consumers. Higher levels of investment can increase productive capacity and employment rates. 
  • Government spending 
    This includes spending by federal, state, and local governments on goods and services like schools, roads, and national defense. Government spending can be funded by taxes, borrowing, or companies. 
  • Net exports 
    Also known as exports minus imports (X – M), this is the value of exports to other countries minus the value of imports into the United States. For example, selling American wheat to Russia would be considered a net export. 

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
We can easily add 1.4 trillion in GDP over the next couple years.

We need to increase taxes on wealthy people (those making over a million per year) corporations, and inheritances to get to a budget surplus and pay off 4 trillion in debt. We could also stop giving 2 for 1 benefits for SS and Medicare.  You should have to pay extra to get transferable survivor benefits. If only one person works in a household then you should pay 2 premiums for Medicare benefits. The boomers got a sweetheart deal.

When the National debt equals the National annual GDP, the debt is considered manageable. Problem solved.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10

We need to increase taxes on wealthy people (those making over a million per year) corporations, and inheritances to get to a budget surplus and pay off 4 trillion in debt.

AI debunked this, even if we taxed you at 50%, the country would be around 500 billion short with the best tax revenue predictions.


ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,269
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
No quantity measured in dollars is relevant since inflation is the mechanism of theft. "wages" don't matter "real wages" matter. "GDP" doesn't matter, "real GDP" matters.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,288
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
In fact, we could have a balanced budget, zero debt, taxes on the rich, and still have a massive amount of theft through inflation "paying" for all the free gibs.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,269
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Greyparrot
In fact, we could have a balanced budget, zero debt, taxes on the rich, and still have a massive amount of theft through inflation "paying" for all the free gibs.
Well because of the way they set it up they inflate through debt. That is the FED prints money and then 'loans' it to the government. When the government (or anyone else) "repays" the loan the dollars are deleted from the system.

You are of course correct that they can merely move the shell game to giant corporations, owned by the so called "rich". The Fed gives them a bunch of money and would you look at that they're "spending" it on buying things the deep state wants them to.

In fact you can convert that straight into government controlled "spending" by simply adding a balanced amount of government contracts and government taxes. The Fed gives you the fake money, then the government steals the fake money (taxes), then the government pays you back the fake money to do stuff they want which means to "buy" from the real economy (actual goods and services).

Net result of shell game? Productive people give value to government ends (which aren't productive) while the dollar loses value.


Some of what we see is in fact that, which brings up an important point: The federal bonds issued by the federal reserve to the government are only part of the inflation. It's worse than the debt counter implies.

The problem is in the act of centralized printing of currency. No matter where it ends up, the act of creating it means that beforehand nobody owed the Fed a thing, and afterward they owed the Fed something. That theft can't be repaired.
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
AI debunked this, even if we taxed you at 50%, the country would be around 500 billion short with the best tax revenue predictions.
We’ve had 500 billion dollar deficits not that long ago. Before the 2017 Tax Law.

A top tax rate of 60% on income over 1 million would reduce the deficit and eventually lead to a surplus.

Capital gains taxes should be increased, as well as taxes on Private Equity managers, Inheritance taxes and starting a new wealth tax.

The carried interest loophole allows investment managers to pay the lower 23.8 percent capital gains tax rate on income received as compensation, rather than the ordinary income tax rates of up to 40.8 percent that they would pay for the same amount of wage income.

That all goes well beyond your AI question on tax rates.

IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
IDOL - I see you didn’t want to admit that you are not paying for the government services you use.

You’re a free rider. You are part of the problem. This country has too many free riders.