187 Minutes

Author: Double_R

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Double_R
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Looking at the current state of our politics it baffles me to no end that people really look at Donald Trump and think this guy should be our next president. The reasons why it baffles me are endless but of I had to point to one thing that I would want any supporter of Trump's to explain it would be his hiatus on January 6th as the US Capitol was under attack. If there is anything that should be an immediate disqualifier, I think that would be it.

So my question to anyone who supports this guy is; what do you make of those 187 minutes? How do you explain it and why would you even consider voting for him after it?
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@Double_R
Simply put his policies make america better. It's hard to support the party that wants to cut the Denise's off of children, band guns and have open borders. 

Now you can claim that Kamala is more moderate than that, but we can all see the machinery. The Democrats once they cannot be opposed, which is very close. We are very near 1 party rule if Trump loses. 

We know that the left is holding the democratic party hostage. 

We also know that jan 6 was just a protest, and there was in fact less damage done in that protest than the BLM riots that killed over 30 people across the country and caused billions in property damage. 


WyIted
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Mostly though. All the right people hate Trump and the enemy of my enemy is my friend
Discipulus_Didicit
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The liberal brain subconsciously assumes that most others have the same goals of liberty, freedom etc. that the liberal has but that these others simply go about obtaining these things in different ways. Within this framework of analysis there are only a small number of people that are truly ideologically opposed to these goals and the rest are all fooled into following them by some method, whether it be propaganda or indoctrination or simple force of personality. To be sure such people do exist but their numbers are vastly over exaggerated in the minds of those that believe history to have ended.

Thus from such analysis are such questions as those asked in the OP born. The liberal, having no shortage of introspection, has repeatedly examined their own priors and concluded, correctly of course, that democracy and the rule of law is the correct path to obtaining these goals. They therefore find themselves dumbfounded at the prospect of all the millions of people that reject the path of democracy and the rule of law. After all, they are assumed to have the same goals. "Surely there is some flaw in their understanding" thinks the liberal. "Surely if I can understand why they reject this path then I can understand better how to help put the country on the right path. Perhaps they don't know that the attack was as violent as it really was? perhaps they falsely believe that the election was actually rigged, I suppose the attack would actually be justified if it was". All of these possibilities occur to the liberal yet the simplest and most obvious explanation is unthinkable to them. Not everybody has liberty and freedom as end goals in the first place.

The more I look at it the more this oversight appears to be not merely widely held by liberals as individuals but in fact intrinsic to the ideology itself. Why this might be, however, I cannot say.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
The liberal, having no shortage of introspection, has repeatedly examined their own priors and concluded, correctly of course, that democracy and the rule of law is the correct path to obtaining these goals.
Democracy is not the best way to secure freedom. I would also need to know your definition of liberal to know if I agree with the rest but most democrats are opposed to the rule of law, which is why they only care about it when it benefits their ideology. This is why we have sanctuary cities, democrats supporting the CHaz/chop takeover down playing rioting and using their power to intimidate social media companies into censorship 
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@Double_R

Jan. 6th was Trump's Rebellion. Remember that in the 1700's people were hung in Massachusetts for Shay's Rebellion.
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@Double_R
Once you come to accept that Wylted's reply to me directly rejecting democracy is not some false personality that he is putting on for entertainment but instead a serious sentiment that he shares with many others you will be nearly ready to understand the answer to your question and, subsequently, to take the first steps towards enlightenment.
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@Double_R
I thought it was awesome. So ofc I support Trump
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@Double_R
Same way as you would excuse the dozens of political killings, assassination attempts (there were many) and riots from the far left.

Biden's policies were just much more important than all that nonsense. Well, Kamala's policies for now. That's what the 2025 outrage is all about.
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@WyIted
We also know that jan 6 was just a protest, and there was in fact less damage done in that protest than the BLM riots that killed over 30 people across the country and caused billions in property damage. 
The BLM riots is an entirely different category of event, and on January 6th we saw the United States Congress evacuate for their protection after the US Capitol was overtaken by a mob that injured 140 police officers on their way. It wasn't just a protest, what a ridiculous thing to say.

Regardless, I didn't ask you about any of that. I asked about Trump's actions during the three hours the rest of the country watched in horror. Do you have any thoughts on that or just deflection?

It's hard to support the party that wants to cut the Denise's off of children, band guns and have open borders. 
Not one prominent figure is advocating for cutting kids penises off, no one is calling for guns to be banned, and the open borders claim is so stupid. Nearly all of the democrats are on board to pass the toughest legislation on the border we've seen in our lifetimes, it's the republican party following the orders of their cult leader who have decided to keep the border "open".

Your entire conception of what you're voting against is purely a product of your imagination.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Once you come to accept that Wylted's reply to me directly rejecting democracy is not some false personality that he is putting on for entertainment but instead a serious sentiment that he shares with many others you will be nearly ready to understand the answer to your question and, subsequently, to take the first steps towards enlightenment.
It's not really enlightenment, myself and plenty more on the left have been saying the MAGA right is anti democracy for years, the problem is that the MAGA right continues to pretend to be for it. What I wasn't expecting was for someone to come on here and actually say it, normally what I get are silly arguments like the deflections Wylted just tried, allegations of "you too", or more typically they just run away from the topic because they don't want to say it out loud.

So far from enlightenment, what I'm hearing from you is that I'm right... All of these half baked attempts to defend Trump is just pure BS, everyone knows he was trying to overthrow American democracy and that's exactly why they want him back in the White House. That right?
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@Double_R
Your entire conception of what you're voting against is purely a product of your imaginatio
I have relatives that are leftists. I know what is going on. There is a reason I stopped being one
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@Greyparrot
Same way as you would excuse the dozens of political killings, assassination attempts (there were many) and riots from the far left.
I don't excuse any of those things. As usual, you argue with your own imagination.
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@Double_R
Your entire conception of what you're voting against is purely a product of your imagination
Que the 2025 garbage.
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@WyIted
Your entire conception of what you're voting against is purely a product of your imaginatio
I have relatives that are leftists. I know what is going on. There is a reason I stopped being one
This is like metting someone who claims they used to be an atheist because they hated God. Just because you claim to be aligned with a group doesn't mean you understand anything about them. And I've already seen how your ability to translate words works, so the fact that your relatives are leftists ads no reassurance.

You love to pretend you understand the left very well, from what I've seen that couldn't be further from the truth.
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@Double_R
This is like metting someone who claims they used to be an atheist because they hated God. Just because you claim to be aligned with a group doesn't mean you understand anything about them. And I've already seen how your ability to translate words works, so the fact that your relatives are leftists ads no reassurance.

You love to pretend you understand the left very well, from what I've seen that couldn't be further from the truth
I am telling you what leftists are foo. Do you deny there is a movement to allow kids to transition?
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@Double_R
What I wasn't expecting was for someone to come on here and actually say it
Oh yeah Wylted, greyparrot, IlikePie, and Frankie have been pretty open about it for years now from what I remember when I was on the site years ago. Maybe I'm just naturally good at spotting the dog whistles so I didn't even notice they had masks on but I don't think that's it. Pretty sure they've just always been open about it... at least these ones, online. Different case for the politicians obviously but you already know that.

So was that the goal? to make them admit it? you're welcome for the assist I guess, if that was the goal.
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Disc is clearly an RFK voter
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@WyIted
What’s really funny to me is that the Democratic wins because of single women who coincidentally have the biggest mental health issues. Maybe there’s a reason why they’re single. I think we need more research into why single women are Democrats 
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@ILikePie5
What’s really funny to me is that the Democratic wins because of single women who coincidentally have the biggest mental health issues. Maybe there’s a reason why they’re single. I think we need more research into why single women are Democrats 
It's because they are brainwashed. I will share with you my obsidian notes on the topic. Hold on. next post
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@ILikePie5
It's a rough outline and the part about incntives are missing also I make links in this to files I self host and don't feel like replicating here. It's also still a mess but can help you get into their heads a bit.

The elite [[Globalists]] or the establishment is how we often refer to the people in charge of the country often unofficially. Another way to refer to them is "The Cathedral".

The Cathedral refers to the media and academia portion of the establishment. They often control the [[The overton Window]] and keep it in a position to help the people they want in power. This was coined by a guy by the pen name Mencius Moldbug. (real name Curtis Yarvin)

This cathedral is often referred to when we talk of "red Pilling" somebody. According to Michael Malice "red PIlling" is defined as;

>The belief that what is presented as fact by the corporate press is a carefully constructed narrative, intentionally designed to keep some very unpleasant people in power.

The media and academia are at the center of modern intellectual society, like the church was the center of society in medieval ages.

It's almost if the cathedral is working in unison. The cathedral is a way to explain how these institutions seem to work in lockstep without attributing it to any sort of conspiracy.

The cathedral has one clear doctrine or perspective , it always agrees with itself. More puzzling is that this doctrine is not static and evolves together but in a very predictable way. (Get the actual quote from "The mystery of the cathedral" paper).  maybe written by Curtis Yarvin (AKA moldbug)

The cult of woke has taken over academia and this becomes a problem because when anything is valued over truth than it harms the ability to determine truth in any matter.

We can see the cult of wokes influence through cancellations, the very narrow threshold politicians are allowed to talk in and the bowing down of corporations to their ideological intolerance

## Problems and misconceptions

It seems that that academia and the media are always on the same page at the same time, which causes the common misconception of a deliberate conspiracy, shadow government, secret society etc.

The concept of the cathedral is an anti-conspiracy in that it explains how these forces work together, without the need for any behind the scenes secret dealings.

Nobody is in charge of the cathedral despite people having varying levels of influence.

Which brings the question. How does the cathedral act in unison with no clear leaders.  This brings us to the 2 methods this is done.
## 1. Ideological intolerance

(look for fundamentalism article in my obsidian)

Tolerant Ideologies will tolerate this force, but when the force captures a majority of thi institution, they do not tolerat the tolerant and push them out.

Once the ideological intolerant have the majority of the institution they will not tolerate divergent thought so slowly begin to push out others until they operate under a type of hive mind.

You now have a system where behaving like you have woke beliefs is selected for. (look at lefty power seeking behavior via virtue signaling)

It seems like so many species evolve into crabs because they are operating under a similar type of environment. So similar environmental pressures (see woke cultists), will result in similar adaptive behavior.

This is why fundamentalism spread so far. Intolerance. The cult of woke acts like a spreading religion in this way. They are a secular intolerant belief system, accept there is no God attached.

Their belief system does obsess over harm avoidance and will engage in the equity fallacy.

The equity fallacy; The false belief that unequal outcomes between groups is solid evidence of systematic discrimination of the less fortunate group.

This then causes the group to search for inequities, without proof assert they are due to discrimination and label anyone who disagrees a bigot, and allows them to shame opposition into silence and then these people are replaced with the cultists and those pretending to be cultists due to self preservation or hierarchy games.

WyIted
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I also have to flesh out a few more things, because there seems to be some narrative collusion that is a bit more intentional
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@Double_R
what do you make of those 187 minutes?
I make of the claim several things:

Left-tribe propagandists aren't too good at math:
2:38 p.m - 1:25 p.m = 73 minutes

That does not matter to you because if it was zero minutes you would not change your determination of culpability at all as you have implied many times by dismissing the words "peaceful" in his ellipse speech.

Why should your opinion about too late matter when it is obvious that you would ignore any message that was 'early enough'?

Why pretend as if those who broke police barriers cared what Trump had to say when they were doing so before he had even finished speaking (having walked away from his speech or never started listening)?

I think of the whole "stop the steal" that Trump alone was cloaked in the enormous power of the presidency and it was HIS job to stop the steal before it happened. History has proven that they tried to imprison him regardless, may as well go to jail for actually overstepping his authority instead of made up crimes and twisted corruptions of defamation precedent.

The earlier he used military force the less people would have gotten hurt and the less mob violence would have been justified. He was and is no genius of strategy and his least dictatorial traits failed us. We needed something a lot closer to Lincoln than Trump.

This nation needs catharsis. Heads (metaphorically) must roll. Nothing sacred was defiled on Jan 6, it was merely the end of a theater play put on for the previously sleeping masses. As many many commenters around the world said "who are they to lecture us about democracy?"


the problem is that the MAGA right continues to pretend to be for it
Actions speak louder than words. There is on tribe that wants secure elections and one that wants fake elections (because insecure elections aren't real elections)


Everyone knows he was trying to overthrow American democracy
Nobody in this thread said that.


Wylted said that democracy is not the best way to get freedom. I am not certain what the best way to obtain and maintain freedom is; but I can say with 100% confidence that democracy has no value beyond its ability to obtain and preserve liberty. It is a tool, if it was ever shown to be an inferior tool it would be worthless and should be discarded.

Same with republics, monarchies, technocracies, an AI overlord, and any other system of government you can imagine.
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@WyIted
Simply put his policies make america better. 
Which 5 policies of his were making America better?

That are so great you can disregard him doing nothing while the Capital was under attack after he told a BIG LIE to incite the American people to violence.

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We also know that jan 6 was just a protest, and there was in fact less damage done in that protest than the BLM riots that killed over 30 people across the country and caused billions in property damage. 
So multiple protests by people who are being treated as second class citizens and being murdered by police for no good reason, caused more damage and deaths  than one single  protest by a mob based on a BIG LIE told by the outgoing president of the United States. 

What would you do if people who were brought up in foster care were treated as second class citizens and were regularly shot by police for no good reason?

Would you protest that?

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@WyIted
All the right people hate Trump and the enemy of my enemy is my friend
By right people, you mean successful white men with college degrees, minorities, women,  and people who don’t wear a ball cap unless they are going to a ball game.

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Notice how IWRA tries to shift from the violence of the BLM riots to their claimed justifications.

That's what someone does when he thinks the violence was justified. That's why I don't talk about Jan 6 and the precious police barriers/windows that were harmed without reminding people they were fighting for democracy.
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Notice how IWRA tries to shift from the violence of the BLM riots to their claimed justifications.
Ya genius, the reason for the violence matters. The violence this country committed in WWII would be pretty bad if we didn’t have a good reason for it.

White men who belonged to unions also had a good reason in the 1800s  to crack some heads.

That's why I don't talk about Jan 6 and the precious police barriers/windows that were harmed without reminding people they were fighting for democracy.
They were fighting for a BIG LIE told by Donald Trump and the MAGA MORONS believed him. Because they’re morons!

Why pretend as if those who broke police barriers cared what Trump had to say when they were doing so before he had even finished speaking (having walked away from his speech or never started listening)?
Trump had been lying about the election for months. The violence was instigated just in January 6, genius.


Greyparrot
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lol, racist.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
I don't understand your issue with ball caps. It's odd.