Caitlyn Jenner's comment

Author: TheUnderdog

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Her comment: "It's easier to come out as trans than it is to come out as republican."

Me: Depends on where you are.  In Hollywood, it wouldn't matter as long as you are an anti Trump republican and as long as you don't lean into any GOP issues due to the low IQ of most people (when someone says they are republican, I assume they are pro life, anti gun control, pro Trump, and believe transwomen shouldn't compete with cis women.  I'm indifferent, but if I was a Hollywood leftist, I'd react poorly to someone coming out as a republican, but their IQ is low, so you say you are an anti Trump republican but are right wing on abortion and trans stuff, as long as you keep that hidden; the left will assume you are a RINO).  In Redneck Tennessee, this couldn't be farther from the Truth.  In battleground country, it doesn't matter.
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As somebody who is close to some of Hollywood. They do care. They aren't that aware of politics but have an identity they cling to, but absolutely they will look down on you for being republican.. my wife's family practically hate me for brain washing her into being one 
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@TheUnderdog
I find Caitlyn hilarious. She keeps sucking up to the right, and the right fucking hate her guts for who she is. I have no idea why anyone would debase themselves like that. I can't imagine how anyone gay, trans or even minorities could support republicans.
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@HistoryBuff
I find Caitlyn hilarious.  He keeps sucking up to the right, and the right fucking hate him guts for who he is.

I corrected that for you.



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You strongly support Trump, whereas if someone says, "I'm an anti Trump republican" in Hollywood, then they get viewed as one of the good ones.  The left loves Liz Cheney.  But imagine you didn't live in Hollywood, but Daytona Beach, FL.  You would hate anyone who publicly says they hate Trump.  You even tried to get me banned for an opinion I have where I'm in the minority.  Don't play the victim when you are in the minority and then censor people when you are in the majority.

You fly the confederate flag in Hollywood, you get your ass whopped.  You burn the American flag in Florida, you get your ass whopped.  It is rare for people to like free speech when it's speech they hate.
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@HistoryBuff
I can't imagine how anyone gay, trans or even minorities could support republicans.
I'm bi and have voted republican before.  A lot of LGBT people don't have thick skins, but my skin is pretty thick.  I'm not judging them for having thin skins, but I'm acknowledging it.

About half of my beliefs are democrat, half are republican.  

I'm not trans, but most trans people (using transwomen for this example), argue calling them a man counts as hatred.  Caitlyn Jenner views it as free speech.  If someone makes a joke at me saying I can't decide between men and women, then I know they are making fun of me, but I don't really care.  Just like on the flip side, Wylted thinks I'm a crazy communist (I lean more libetarian on social issues), and I don't really care.  The more you are alive, the less you care about what others think of you.

There are 4 main ways people respond to percieved oppression:

  1. They whine about being oppressed.  Ex: Stereotypical SJW femenist.
  2. They calmly, but firmly say, "You are being transphobic".  An example is this kid I met who was Irish; I called Ireland Western England, and he argued the Irish were being oppressed.  He didn't claim it was bigoted what I said.
  3. They don't care what some stranger says.  An exmaple was there was this bilingual person who was talking Portuegese and someone said, "This is America; we speak English" to them and they didn't care.
  4. They claim, "All the other (gays/trans/Latinos/blacks) etc are bad, but I'm one of the good ones".  Example: Kelly Cadigan, Cadence Owens.
The 1st way to respond is leftist, the 2nd is conservative, the 3rd is libetarian, the 4th is a grifter.  It's possible to do multiple responses at the same time.  Caitlyn Jenner does a combination of 2,3, and 4.  If it's something neutral like transgenderism, then I think responding style 4 is horrible; I respond style 3 usually; I often do style 2.
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@Stephen
I find Caitlyn hilarious.  He keeps sucking up to the right, and the right fucking hate him guts for who he is.
I corrected that for you.
Thank you for proving my point. No matter what she says or does, the right will despise who she is. She is pretty pathetic to fight for people who despise her. Especially when the things she's pushing for are terrible in and of themselves. 
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@TheUnderdog
Just like on the flip side, Wylted thinks I'm a crazy communist (I lean more libetarian on social issues), and I don't really care. 
I get where you are coming from. If they want to say mean things or make jokes, that is their right. But we both know it doesn't end there. The republicans HATE gay people, trans people and minorities. They are getting more and more rabid about it every year. It isn't just nasty things they say, they are coming after people's rights. 


  1. They whine about being oppressed.  Ex: Stereotypical SJW femenist. The 1st way to respond is leftist
LMAO. oh no no no no. There is no one who whines louder than a right wing white guy. Muhh Freedom!!!

They calmly, but firmly say, "You are being transphobic".  the 2nd is conservative
ok, so virtually no one in the republican party is conservative then? Because no republicans are ever saying that. 


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@HistoryBuff
Fake pronouns.
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Fake pronouns.
you think pronouns are fake? You really should go back to primary school. Pronouns are real and they can't hurt you.
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@HistoryBuff
I find Caitlyn hilarious.  He keeps sucking up to the right, and the right fucking hate him guts for who he is.
I corrected that for you.
Thank you for proving my point.
Good. You are welcome.


No matter what he says or does, the right will despise who he is. He is pretty pathetic to fight for people who despise him. Especially when the things he's pushing for are terrible in and of themselves. 

I corrected that for you.




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@HistoryBuff
The only thing real is your denial of biology.
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The only thing real is your denial of biology.
who is talking about biology? Sex and gender are not the same thing. you know that right?
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@HistoryBuff
who is talking about biology?
Apparently, this biologist is:



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@cristo71
who is talking about biology?
Apparently, this biologist is:
could you clarify your point? I'm not certain I understand what you are trying to argue. The article seems to be talking about how we used some information about biology to make completely social constructs. And that was kind of my point as well. That I was discussing the social construct of gender and that this social construct is not decided by biology. Although biology is certainly a factor. Sort of like saying you are talking about cars, doesn't mean you are talking about mufflers. 
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@HistoryBuff
Well, you asked, “Who’s talking about biology?” I answered that a particular biologist IS bringing biology into the “social construct” argument.

Perhaps you need to clarify your point in rhetorically asking (as if the answer were “absolutely no one”) “Who’s talking about biology?”

Edit: alright, to get straight to my point:  you are establishing certain concepts and claims as factual when they are not necessarily factual.
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@TheUnderdog
I actually know some people in Hollywood and lived not too far outside of Daytona at one point. You have no ideal how full of shit you are. 
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@cristo71
Perhaps you need to clarify your point in rhetorically asking (as if the answer were “absolutely no one”) “Who’s talking about biology?”
perhaps you didn't notice that message was a reply to someone else. So obviously the reply was talking about this conversation. IE neither he nor I were discussing biology, we were discussing gender. So you bringing up someone completely separate and saying "that guy's talking about biology" is a little strange. 

you are establishing certain concepts and claims as factual when they are not necessarily factual.
what factual claims have I made that are not factual? 
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perhaps you didn't notice that message was a reply to someone else. So obviously the reply was talking about this conversation. IE neither he nor I were discussing biology, we were discussing gender. So you bringing up someone completely separate and saying "that guy's talking about biology" is a little strange. 
Point taken. YOU were not talking about biology. What I was seeking to introduce is the fact that there are people in the transgender movement who do, indeed, argue that biology is very much a part of the debate, and this fact does not seem to be generally acknowledged.

what factual claims have I made that are not factual? 
That sex and gender are two different things. That is an opinion rather than a fact. There was a time in society when sex and gender were synonymous words and this view was devoid of controversy.
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ok, so virtually no one in the republican party is conservative then? 
I’m not saying that, I’m saying there are many blue LGBT voters that have a conservative mindset to what they believe is bullying.
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@cristo71
Point taken. YOU were not talking about biology. What I was seeking to introduce is the fact that there are people in the transgender movement who do, indeed, argue that biology is very much a part of the debate, and this fact does not seem to be generally acknowledged.
fair enough. But that doesn't really mean much. There are people talking about the world being flat and all sorts of things. So there being someone, somewhere in the world talking about a thing isn't saying alot.

That sex and gender are two different things. That is an opinion rather than a fact.
no, it really isn't. Sex is the biology of a person. Gender is the cultural perception we have of people. And these are absolutely separate things and always have been. You can see proof of this because there are people who don't fully fall into the definition of male or female. There are people who are both, or neither. But we only have 2 genders that society recognizes. This proves that gender and sex differ.

There was a time in society when sex and gender were synonymous words and this view was devoid of controversy.
no, there was not. An example is that there are more than male and female sexes. But I'm not aware of any societies having really accepted that. 

You perceive there being only 2 sexes and 2 genders. Therefore you assume that a society that sticks to a rigid definition of what those 2 genders/sexes are to be correct. But that isn't the case. But you could go deeper too. There is no biological basis for women being dumber, but societies often have this as part of being a woman. The "fairer sex" and all that. That is gender norm that is not really connected to Sex. Or that women love shopping etc. That is a gender role that has nothing to do with biology. 
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So there being someone, somewhere in the world talking about a thing isn't saying alot.
Here’s another:


And there’s more, but I don’t wish to Gish gallop. The push toward sex as a social construct IS a thing. It is inherent in progressivism to keep the goalposts moving further down the track as goals are achieved. Knowing this, I’ll make a fairly easy prediction:  if “gender is a social construct” ideology gains widespread acceptance in western societies, and it seems to be on its way, the next goal will be “BOTH gender and sex are social constructs.” Then the redundancy of that nomenclature will become evident, and the ideology will simply become “sex is a social construct.”

Gender is the cultural perception we have of people.
So, “dude looks like a lady”— actually MAKES that person a woman?

You can see proof of this because there are people who don't fully fall into the definition of male or female. There are people who are both, or neither. But we only have 2 genders that society recognizes. This proves that gender and sex differ.
Ah, yes, the old “use the exception to disprove the rule” gambit. How many arms and legs do humans have? Two of each? Well, there are babies born with one arm or one leg. Do they then cease to be human?

no, there was not.
From Wikipedia:

“The term gender had been associated with grammar for most of history and only started to move towards it being a malleable cultural construct in the 1950s and 1960s.[24]

You perceive there being only 2 sexes and 2 genders. Therefore you assume
Please, take caution in assuming what I perceive or… assume. I perceive three sexes: male, female, and intersex. However, intersex is a rarity, an aberration, akin to being born with one arm. Again, what I am saying is that claiming that gender and sex are completely distinct is an opinion, a school of thought, not necessarily a fact as you declare without doubt. There is another school of thought: that gender and sex are synonymous, if not EXACTLY the same, exact thing.
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@cristo71
 “gender is a social construct” ideology gains widespread acceptance in western societies,
this doesn't make sense. Gender IS a construct. That isn't up for dispute. Like girls like flowers and horses and are weak. While men are strong and tough and don't cry etc. Those are aspects of gender that have little to nothing to do with biology. So saying if it gains acceptance is dumb. Because it isn't even disputed. That is what the word gender means. 

So, “dude looks like a lady”— actually MAKES that person a woman?
i'm not even sure what your point is. Gender is decided by society. So if we as a society say anyone with nipples is a woman, then we're all women. If we say anyone who looks feminine is a woman, then yeah. Gender is a construct and it is fluid. It changes over time and by culture. 

Ah, yes, the old “use the exception to disprove the rule” gambit. How many arms and legs do humans have? Two of each? Well, there are babies born with one arm or one leg. Do they then cease to be human?
of course not, they prove that not all humans have 2 legs. So if you were to argue that all humans have 2 legs, you would be wrong. Just like anyone who says there are only 2 sexes is wrong. 

Also, some studies have shown that as many as 1 in 60 people are intersex, IE not entirely male or female. That isn't "the exception", that is a measurable portion of the population. enough they could swing an election. 

From Wikipedia:

“The term gender had been associated with grammar for most of history and only started to move towards it being a malleable cultural construct in the 1950s and 1960s.[24]
My apologies, I think I phrased my point badly. Societies have always had gender and sex. They often chose not to differentiate between the two. But you can see the difference was always there as the gender changed over time, but the sex didn't. For example look at how greek men were expected to behave in classical greece vs later periods. They were biologically the same, but what a real "man" was had changed drastically. Not alot of naked man on man wrestling these days.

 I perceive three sexes: male, female, and intersex. However, intersex is a rarity, an aberration, akin to being born with one arm.
red hair is also an aberration. that doesn't make it any less valid. 

Again, what I am saying is that claiming that gender and sex are completely distinct is an opinion, a school of thought, not necessarily a fact as you declare without doubt.
that is silly. If sex and gender were the same then you would still have the same gender traits as your ancestors. I don't know your ancestry, but if you were greek you'd be wrestling other men naked alot more than you probably do. Gender identities have changed drastically over time and in different places. Sex has not. 

There is another school of thought: that gender and sex are synonymous, if not EXACTLY the same, exact thing.
That's stupid. If they were the same thing, then we would just need an entirely new word to describe gender. Why would you make the 2 mean the same thing and just make a new word?
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@HistoryBuff
That isn't up for dispute.
Well, there it is, then. You are so completely convinced of how factually right you are that it isn’t up for debate. This proves that further conversation on this matter with you is futile. It’s actually a relief, as I might actually need to lie down for a bit after reading your latest responses… like yeesh…


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@cristo71
There's far too many unqualified women in your workforce. Why does biological gender matter strictly in some policies and not in others?
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@Tidycraft
Feel free to continue the convo you were having with HB, as I was just butting in…
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@cristo71
ok thank you.
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@cristo71
Well, there it is, then. You are so completely convinced of how factually right you are that it isn’t up for debate. This proves that further conversation on this matter with you is futile. It’s actually a relief, as I might actually need to lie down for a bit after reading your latest responses… like yeesh…
I don't se how you could dispute it. Is there not a social construct where we put certain attributes based on our perception of gender? Do we not think men should be strong and silent. Do we not think women should be beautiful, or that they are fragile? 

If you think that society has those expectations of people we perceive to be male and female, then you accept that gender exists as a separate identity to sex. And if you think those don't exist, then I don't know how to help you. They are everywhere in our and all other societies and always have been.
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@HistoryBuff
There are simply too many inaccuracies in your posts to address them all adequately. Chief among them is that you conflate the concept of gender with gender stereotypes, gender roles, gender norms, and gender traits (where “gender” is the modifier of the concept in question rather than the concept itself). You simply (and erroneously) put all those various concepts under the umbrella of “gender.” Furthermore, you conflate the concept of “gender traits” with certain activities which various societies have separated according to gender (or sex). Now, for that lie down…