Become a theist

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#1

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

12.31.2018 09:46PM

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12.31.2018 09:46PM

Matt Dillahunty, host of "The Atheist Experience", said that the fine-tunedness of the universe was evidence of God but was not "sufficient" evidence of God.

If there's no evidence against God, but there is evidence for God, the claim "God exists" is more likely true than not. How is that not sufficient to warrant belief that the claim is true?

#2

Goldtop

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12.31.2018 10:25PM

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@Fallaneze

Matt Dillahunty, host of "The Atheist Experience", said that the fine-tunedness of the universe was evidence of God but was not "sufficient" evidence of God.

Beer is evidence of God, but not "sufficient" evidence of God.

#3

Mopac

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Mopac

12.31.2018 10:49PM

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12.31.2018 10:49PM

Not sufficient for him. That is really what he means to say.

If someone doesn't want to believe that anything is ultimately real, no amount of evidence will convince them.

#4

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

12.31.2018 10:54PM

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12.31.2018 10:54PM

There's much more than just the "fine-tuning" argument/proposal, that's just a surface level interpretation or just one way of considering. There's what is called an accumulation of evidences, which includes many factors not just one or another. Most people have philosophical reasons as well as personal reasons. All the evidences and theories accumulate to an overwhelming conclusion.

#5

disgusted

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disgusted

01.01.2019 02:05AM

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01.01.2019 02:05AM

The universe is so fine tuned that 99.99999999999999999999999% of it is fatal to life.

#6

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

01.01.2019 02:16AM

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@disgusted

The universe is so fine tuned that 99.99999999999999999999999% of it is fatal to life.

And......how precisely do you know what the rest of Gods creation is for? have you been there? how many galaxies and planets within those galaxies have you explored dear Bulproof? life on this planet is fit for its inhabitants.

#7

disgusted

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disgusted

01.01.2019 02:21AM

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@ET

Go five miles from where you are now and you will be dead.

#8

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 02:24AM

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@Fallaneze

Matt Dillahunty, host of "The Atheist Experience", said that the fine-tunedness of the universe was evidence of God but was not "sufficient" evidence of God.

He's wrong.

The fine-tuning argument is never evidence for the existence of the Christian God. If God created a universe that is, so to speak, out-of-tune, then He created a universe that He didn't want, hence the necessity to fine-tune. Since God is supposed to be omnipotent and all-knowing, He should have the capacity to create a universe that doesn't need fine-tuning. So, when He creates a universe that needs fine-tuning, He is either proving that He isn't omnipotent, and/or he is demonstrating that he isn't all-knowing.

#9

EtrnlVw

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01.01.2019 02:29AM

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@disgusted

Did you mean go five miles from where you are now so you can get yourself a hotdog and a Big Gulp? Try making some sense. Thanx.

#10

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 02:29AM

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The fine-tuning argument is a horrendous contradiction and a disastrously bad argument for the existence of God. If any of you disagree, I will gladly bash your arguments to a pulp in a debate.

If you seriously attempt to make a fine-tuning argument for the existence of God, you are unbelievably fucking stupid.

#11

disgusted

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disgusted

01.01.2019 02:32AM

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@ET

Still haven't learned how to read, go to a god world LOL that teaches it.

#12

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

01.01.2019 02:33AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

The so-called "fine-tuning" argument of the universe is only an interpretation really, just as materialism is or atheism. It more or less points to the irregularities of the formation of our own galaxy, where earth, moon and sun are positioned in such a precise way where it meets the needs for creatures to develop. Or even deeper, the way stars form to seed the universe and the arrangements of planets, the endless array of galaxies which could certainly contain life for other life forms. Quite incredible if you really think about it.

#13

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

01.01.2019 02:34AM

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@disgusted

That's what I thought.

#14

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 02:41AM

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@EtrnlVw

The so-called "fine-tuning" argument of the universe is only an interpretation really, just as materialism is or atheism.

Absolutely not.

The fine-tuning argument is about attempting to prove God's existence through the complexity of the world -- that is not "only" an interpretation.

You clearly don't know what you're writing about. You should stop typing before the whole site is laughing at you.

#15

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

01.01.2019 02:42AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

The interesting thing is, the anatomy of physical embodiments require a certain environment to survive in. This can happen at many different levels of conscious life and certainly well out of our capacity to observe in an endless universe. The "magic" is, is that conscious activity is never dependent on forms in creation, rather is restricted to the form it is experiencing through. Those forms are supported by the "fine-tuning" of the multi-verses.

#16

EtrnlVw

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EtrnlVw

01.01.2019 02:44AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

The fine-tuning argument is about attempting to prove God's existence through the complexity of the world

Of course. As explained.

-- that is not "only" an interpretation.

Of course it is, silly.

You clearly don't know what you're writing about. You should stop typing before the whole site is laughing at you.

LOL. Nice try.

#17

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 02:46AM

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@EtrnlVw

The interesting thing is, the anatomy of physical embodiments require a certain environment to survive in. This can happen at many different levels conscious life and certainly well out of our capacity to observe in an endless universe. The "magic" is, is that conscious activity is never dependent on forms in creation, rather is restricted to the form it is experiencing through. Those forms are supported by the "fine-tuning" of the multi-verses.

That is not the fine-tuning argument. Again, you are completely ignorant as to what fine-tuning refers to. I'm going to show your posts to my friends so that we can laugh at you.

#18

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 02:48AM

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@EtrnlVw

Rather than running your mouth like a keyboard warrior, why don't you step up to the plate and debate me?

I'd love to permanently brand your account with a humiliating loss :)

#19

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 03:27AM

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@EtrnlVw

It's funny. As soon as I demand that you be held accountable for your comments in a debate, you suddenly flee.

Very funny.

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#20

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

01.01.2019 03:42AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

Let's have a debate on whether it's evidence of God.

#21

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 03:48AM

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@Fallaneze

Since you're affirming, set up a debate however you wish, and I'll probably accept it.

But be warned: if history is anything to go by, I'm one of the top 5 debaters of this site.

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#22

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

01.01.2019 03:53AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

I'm a pretty lousy debater, so don't worry about it. As soon as I get it set up I'll send it to you. I haven't made a debate on this site before but if it's quick and easy I may set it up tonight between doing other things.

#23

Analgesic.Spectre

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Analgesic.Spectre

01.01.2019 03:56AM

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@Fallaneze

I'm going to make an example out of you.

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#24

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

01.01.2019 04:17AM

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@Analgesic.Spectre

I created the debate.

#25

keithprosser

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01.01.2019 07:11AM

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@Fallaneze

Formal debates arefortwo people... what about the rest of us?

The fine-tuned argument is a challenge to non-theists to come up with an alternative to 'Goddidit'. Anyone who wants to refute 'goddit' has two options a) deny the universe is fine-tuned or b) concede the universe is fine tuned, but not by the gods.

a) involves appeal to the anthropic principle/puddle argument. b) involves an appeal to the hope that future discoveries will reveal a non-supernatural reason why the physical constantsre as they are.

it's all very unfair, because the 'goddidit' crowd get away with just claiming 'godfinetunedit' with no furter detail but insist refuters cross every t and dot every i!

i'm not keen on appeals to the AP, but until/unless a postive theory that explains the value of the physical constants turns up the AP will have to suffice!

#26

keithprosser

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keithprosser

01.01.2019 07:31AM

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If there's no evidence against God, but there is evidence for God, the claim "God exists" is more likely true than not. How is that not sufficient to warrant belief that the claim is true?

If you accept that fine tuning is not 100% proof of the gods, would say it makes the existence of the gods 10% probable or 90% probable?

#27

keithprosser

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01.01.2019 07:48AM

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@Fallaneze

If there's no evidence against God, but there is evidence for God, the claim "God exists" is more likely true than not. How is that not sufficient to warrant belief that the claim is true?

If you accept that fine tuning is not 100% proof of the gods, would say it makes the existence of the gods 10% probable or 90% probable?

#28

disgusted

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disgusted

01.01.2019 04:48PM

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@Fallaneze

Become a theist

What's the going price for a prefrontal lobotomy?

#29

Mopac

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Mopac

01.01.2019 05:21PM

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01.01.2019 05:21PM

The fact that there is order at all in the universe is prood that there is reality. If there is reality, there must be Ultimate Reality, that is, reality as it truly is.

The God deniers don't get this because they believe in straw man god not God. And by believe, I mean that they don't believe straw man god. Unsurprisingly, neither do we.

Topic's author

#30

Fallaneze

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Fallaneze

01.01.2019 05:57PM

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@keithprosser

I'm only considering plausibility. I don't have a percentage likelihood attached to it.