I'm voting for someone who never thought their uncle got eaten by a cannibal after falling from the sky and someone that never thought George Washington conquered airports.
Trump vs Biden
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So anyone except yourself then.
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@RationalMadman
@TheUnderdog
So.
Offered a choice of three.
1. Biden.
2 Trump.
3. Sensible Guy.
How many Americans, do you think, would vote Sensible Guy?
So anyone except yourself then
Roast more, daddy.
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@RationalMadman
I don't believe either of those things.
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@Best.Korea
A roast has to be actually true (which his was not).
If you roast Mike Pence by claiming he paid for an abortion, you didn't roast him; your roast is just incorrect and it makes you look stupid. You make that roast about Herschel Walker, and you sound more accurate; because if you want abortion banned, then you see him as a murderer, and everyone sees him as a hypocrite regardless of abortion stance.
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@TheUnderdog
I know, but RM is my daddy.
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@TheUnderdog
So… you’re throwing your vote away.
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@Double_R
I don't see it like that; if the election was between Robert E Lee and Hitler, then I hope everyone would vote for someone else. I also think our politicians have noticed that the worse the democrat and republican candidate are, the higher percentage the democrats and republicans will get because the people that vote for Biden are voting against Trump and vice versa, and bad politicians on both sides create fear that cause people to do what is needed to prevent that bad politician from attaining power. I think our elites have noticed and as a result, they are giving us bad Biden and bad Trump because they know fear creates less 3rd party vote than hope.
If Biden wants to get rid of Trump, then he can implement rank choice voting so the "spoiler effect" goes away. But he won't do that because Biden is just as power hungry as Trump is.
I'm voting 3rd party.
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@TheUnderdog
I don't see it like that; if the election was between Robert E Lee and Hitler, then I hope everyone would vote for someone else.
That’s incoherent. If the choice is between those two, then by definition there is no one else.
Obviously since there are third party candidates there is technically someone else, but the reality is what it is; as long as these two remain relatively healthy and there is no political bomb that significantly changes things, one of these two individuals will be sworn in this coming January.
You can wish that away all you want, that is our reality. And because it is our reality voting for anyone else is nothing more than symbolic garbage that only benefits the candidate you least prefer.
I think our elites have noticed and as a result, they are giving us bad Biden and bad Trump because they know fear creates less 3rd party vote than hope.
This doesn’t make any sense. Not only is this a terrible strategy for either side to purposefully nominate a candidate people don’t want, but we weren’t given these candidates by “the elites”. We ended up with Biden vs Trump because that’s who the party’s bases chose. No serious candidate challenged Biden and the Republican base rejected all of their other options.
If Biden wants to get rid of Trump, then he can implement rank choice voting so the "spoiler effect" goes away. But he won't do that because Biden is just as power hungry as Trump is.
Biden doesn’t have anything to do with that. The presidential election is held independently in each state, the federal government has no say in how that works and even if they did Biden would have to get Congress on board which in today’s polarized climate would be impossible.
To claim Biden is just as power hungry is an absurd statement based on nothing more than lies just like this one. Biden had a good shot in 2016 but didn’t run because he cared more about his family than running for office. Meanwhile Trump was ready to burn the entire country down to avoid leaving in 2020. The two are not comparable.
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@Double_R
as long as these two remain relatively healthy and there is no political bomb that significantly changes things, one of these two individuals will be sworn in this coming January.
They will always be politically healthy as long as people refuse to vote 3rd party.
And because it is our reality voting for anyone else is nothing more than symbolic garbage that only benefits the candidate you least prefer.
Rank Choice Voting solves this.
Not only is this a terrible strategy for either side to purposefully nominate a candidate people don’t want
The democrat elites and the republican elites work together to give us 2 bad options and if we vote 3rd party, then they claim it's a "wasted vote". They rigged the last election against Ross Perot.
No serious candidate challenged Biden
What made Cenk Uyghur, RFK, Dean Phillips or Marian Williamson not serious? You (as a socialist) agree with Williamson and Cenk more.
the Republican base rejected all of their other options.
That's because they like Trump's vibes and the Non Trump vote got split. This led to the base eventually supporting Trump.
The presidential election is held independently in each state, the federal government has no say in how that works and even if they did Biden would have to get Congress on board which in today’s polarized climate would be impossible.
If Biden isn't going to get Rank Choice Voting done, then what's the point in voting for him? Trump wins and he takes away democracy. How is that much different than what we have now? We went from 2 parties to 1. If Biden wins, he can't get the GOP to agree to stuff, so what's the point in Biden being in the Oval Office?
Very similar policies will be passed with Biden vs Trump (except for abortion; which I agree with Trump more on than Biden).
To claim Biden is just as power hungry is an absurd statement based on nothing more than lies just like this one.
Then why doesn't he step down and give the VP position to Kamala, who then gives it to someone more electable to beat Trump, drops out, and then that electable democrat becomes the nominee. Biden isn't electable; he's losing the popular vote to Trump.
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@TheUnderdog
They will always be politically healthy as long as people refuse to vote 3rd party.
And people will continue to refuse 3rd party candidates because voting for them is self defeating.
Sure, in theory, if everyone voted third party then the third party would win, but that’s not how reality works. If everyone in Russia came out against Putin then Putin’s reign would be over. But we're not the Borg.
It would take a major shift in American politics for any third party to be viable, and in the meantime they would continue to accomplish nothing but spoil every election and ensure the most popular candidate loses. That’s all third parties in this system are good for.
Rank Choice Voting solves this.
Correct, which is why I support ranked choice voting 100%. But that's not our system so until it is we have to deal with the system we have.
The democrat elites and the republican elites work together to give us 2 bad options
You can't seriously believe this. Not only does this make absolutely no sense, bit it's just factually wrong and I already explained why. Please respond to the points I made.
No serious candidate challenged BidenWhat made Cenk Uyghur, RFK, Dean Phillips or Marian Williamson not serious? You (as a socialist) agree with Williamson and Cenk more.
I'm talking about seriousness in terms of viability. None of them had a serious shot of winning the White House. The office of the presidency is the highest office in the entire country, people want someone who has shown that they can get the job done. Running a YouTube news network or being born with the last name Kennedy is not going to cut it for the vast majority of Americans, and it shouldn't. Just because I agree with you on some policy positions doesn't mean you're qualified to hold the nuclear codes.
the Republican base rejected all of their other options.That's because they like Trump's vibes and the Non Trump vote got split. This led to the base eventually supporting Trump.
Right... Which means the "elites" didn't pick the nominee, the base did.
If Biden isn't going to get Rank Choice Voting done, then what's the point in voting for him? Trump wins and he takes away democracy. How is that much different than what we have now? We went from 2 parties to 1.
Yes, we went from 2 choices to no choice... So what is it you need me to explain? Do you value choice or not?
The point of democracy isn't to go into a voting booth and be presented with a plethora of viable candidates, the point is that if someone wants to take political office and make decisions on behalf of the people that they be accountable. If you have two choices then there is accountability because you can be voted out. If there is only one choice then there is no accountability. It's that simple.
If Biden wins, he can't get the GOP to agree to stuff, so what's the point in Biden being in the Oval Office?Very similar policies will be passed with Biden vs Trump (except for abortion; which I agree with Trump more on than Biden).
The supreme court comes to mind. If Clinton won in 2016 women would still have control over their bodies, as just one example. Being president is a lot more than just domestic policy (which honestly has far more to do with Congress than the president).
There are many reasons it matters, but when it comes to Trump vs Biden those differences couldn't be more stark. What we learned through the Trump presidency is that this country is held together far less through the law and far more through political norms than we originally realized. Most of us took it for granted that a president would, for example, hold a daily press briefing... Every day. Or would allow the Senate confirmed secretary of state to run America's foreign policy instead of the president's son in law who would then leave office and collect $2 billion from an foreign government he was very friendly with.
But those norms are benign compared to the biggest one Trump took an axe to; conceding the election. And if elected again he will take an axe to every political norm we have on steroids, because unlike in 2016 he has an entire movement behind him to fire every civil service worker in the federal government and replace them not with people who are loyal to the constitution, but loyal to Trump himself. This is a man who openly talks about using his office for political retribution, I don't know if we're being hyperbolic about him "ending democracy" but he will definitely render it unrecognizable by the time he's done. If you understand anything about why the United States has always been the envy of the world, then this isn't a contest.
Biden isn't electable; he's losing the popular vote to Trump.
The polls are close right now but Biden is quickly overtaking Trump as people as starting to pay more attention, which was easily foreseeable and will continue. Plus democrats have outperformed in nearly every election over the past two years. There is no reason to think Trump is a lock, quite the opposite.
But even setting that aside, it's a mistake especially in these polarized times to think just because Biden has low approval ratings that someone else would do any better. No matter who the candidate is they're going to get hit with an onslaught of attack ads and propaganda. On Fox news they're running chyrons like "the Biden crime family" even though they've been investigating the Biden's for years and still can't tell us what the crime is. People will believe anything they want and what they want is to believe their political opposition is worse than they are. It's not a question of whether someone could gain majority support, only how well they'll do against the machine designed to make them look like Hitler.
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@Double_R
You can't seriously believe this. Not only does this make absolutely no sense, bit it's just factually wrong and I already explained why.
I think I do; I think the politicians of both parties are in bed with each other and they are screwing over the American people.
Correct, which is why I support ranked choice voting 100%. But that's not our system so until it is we have to deal with the system we have.
If Biden wanted to take down Trump, then he would do rank choice voting.
Please respond to the points I made.
I try too, but you write a lot.
None of them had a serious shot of winning the White House.
Only because they lost the primary because democrats think Biden is more electable (when he isn't).
people want someone who has shown that they can get the job done.
It's easy to get the job done if you want too if you have the votes; but politicians campaign on doing things, and when their party gets a majority of power, they don't follow through because the moment they fix the problem, they reduced a lot of the reason people come to the polls, especially if there is a concession from the other party. If the GOP became pro choice and conceded abortion to the democrats, then all the pro choice voters are going to have to pick a different issue to vote on (and that issue might cause them to vote conservative).
Just because I agree with you on some policy positions doesn't mean you're qualified to hold the nuclear codes.
All that matters with nuclear codes is you don't send any nukes flying (maybe unless we get attacked first); it's easy.
Right... Which means the "elites" didn't pick the nominee, the base did.
And who influences the base? The elites. If the elites said a year ago that DeSantis was beating Trump by 20 percentage points, then the base just follows suit. The elites decided on Trump first, they had that reflect the polling, and the base followed because the base of both parties are sheep.
The vast majority of democrats can't on their own name a single policy difference between Pete Buttigieg and Beto O Rouke. If the democrat elites decide that Beto will have a higher approval rating among them, then that translates down to the base voter since the base voter can't tell them ideologically apart.
the point is that if someone wants to take political office and make decisions on behalf of the people that they be accountable.
Except they won't be held accountable. If Trump shoots someone in public, then most MAGA people will still vote for him; if Trump gets his fat ass in a pool and saves a toddler from drowning to death, then most Never Trumpers will still vote against him (like about 95% in both camps).
The vast majority of voters have their mind made up on Trump.
If Clinton won in 2016 women would still have control over their bodies, as just one example.
I said similar policies. If Biden beats Trump in 2024, then abortion laws will still be up to the states unless a conservative judge dies (which I don't foresee that happening in 4 years). Even if it does, you would need the following to change abortion policy in the left direction:
1. At least one more conservative judge dies than liberal judge.
2. A democrat is POTUS
3. A House of representatives being majority democrat
4. A senate being majority democrat
Trump got lucky enough where he had all 4.
And if elected again he will take an axe to every political norm we have on steroids, because unlike in 2016 he has an entire movement behind him to fire every civil service worker in the federal government and replace them not with people who are loyal to the constitution, but loyal to Trump himself.
And Biden will let it happen by refusing to implement Rank Choice Voting, which would break up the MAGA cult.
Biden and Trump are in bed and the American people are getting fucked over.
If you understand anything about why the United States has always been the envy of the world, then this isn't a contest.
1st and 2nd amendments; along with a hyper individualistic spirit.
The polls are close right now but Biden is quickly overtaking Trump as people as starting to pay more attention
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden vs. Kennedy vs. West vs. Stein Polls | RealClearPolling. It might change, but Trump is winning the popular vote (normally the thing almost always won by democrats).
Plus democrats have outperformed in nearly every election over the past two years.
Local elections are Generic Democrat vs MAGA Republican. In these elections, the generic democrat outperforms.
In a Generic Democrat vs Generic Republican election, it's roughly tied.
In a Biden vs Generic Republican election, the generic republican wins.
We have Biden v Trump.
Biden underperforms because people think he's not mentally sharp. Me personally; I think if you give him Anderol (which is fine), then he functions well. But public perception matters for who you want to face off against Trump to appeal to independent voters.
Dean Phillips is a Generic democrat. Dean Phillips vs Trump; Dean Phillips wins.
No matter who the candidate is they're going to get hit with an onslaught of attack ads and propaganda.
They got less to work with than with Biden; Dean Phillips isn't an old person.
People will believe anything they want and what they want is to believe their political opposition is worse than they are.
This works on the MAGA crowd; but not the independents.
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@TheUnderdog
I think the politicians of both parties are in bed with each other and they are screwing over the American people.
Then you're just hopeless, because this theory you're suggesting is beyond absurd and it's factually wrong.
Again, the two parties loath each other, they're not working together on anything. Even if they were, the point of working with someone else on anything is so that both sides can benefit. Politics in terms of elections is a zero sum game. There is no such thing as working with your opposition for a mutually favorable outcome.
And even if we set that aside, the way to nullify third party candidates is to elect popular candidates. It is only when voters don't like either choice that third parties become a factor, so this "plot" would be self sabotage.
And again, all of this is irrelevant because you are ignoring factual reality. "Elites" don't choose the nominees, the voters do. So if this were a plot it would be a nationwide conspiracy between Biden's base and the MAGA cult. That's ridiculous.
If Biden wanted to take down Trump, then he would do rank choice voting.
Again, he does not have this authority. States decide how to run their elections, not the federal government. And even if the government did, it would take an act of Congress. Biden does not have a magic wand, he does not have the choice to do this.
Just because I agree with you on some policy positions doesn't mean you're qualified to hold the nuclear codes.All that matters with nuclear codes is you don't send any nukes flying (maybe unless we get attacked first); it's easy.
All that matters? Wow, you're taking the most serious responsibility on earth and acting like it's on par with operating the fryer at McDonald's.
Please take a moment to repeat your position or loud.
And who influences the base? The elites. If the elites said a year ago that DeSantis was beating Trump by 20 percentage points, then the base just follows suit. The elites decided on Trump first, they had that reflect the polling, and the base followed because the base of both parties are sheep.
That is not true. The elites never chose Trump, in fact they all hate him. Early in the race everyone including Fox news was all in on Ron Desantis, they were essentially an arm of his campaign. That did almost nothing because the base wanted Trump, especially (and amazingly) after the indictments.
And again, even setting all that aside, what you're talking about is influenced. That does not support your original assertion. The people are free to be influenced by whomever they want, that is still their choice. No political system is going to fix that and it shouldn't.
Except they won't be held accountable. If Trump shoots someone in public, then most MAGA people will still vote for him; if Trump gets his fat ass in a pool and saves a toddler from drowning to death, then most Never Trumpers will still vote against him (like about 95% in both camps).The vast majority of voters have their mind made up on Trump.
That's irrelevant. We're talking about the difference between having two choices or no choices. Trump was held accountable in 2020 because he lost. The fact that he has the base locked up has nothing to do with the fact that there absolutely is accountability in a two party system.
Local elections are Generic Democrat vs MAGA Republican. In these elections, the generic democrat outperforms.In a Generic Democrat vs Generic Republican election, it's roughly tied.In a Biden vs Generic Republican election, the generic republican wins.We have Biden v Trump.
Correct. In every election where MAGA is on the ticket, the democrats outperform. And Trump is the MAGA candidate. So what is your point? You said Biden underperforms which you cannot say because Biden hasn't ran since 2020, so you're just making stuff up.
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@Double_R
Again, the two parties loath each other, they're not working together on anything. Even if they were, the point of working with someone else on anything is so that both sides can benefit. Politics in terms of elections is a zero sum game. There is no such thing as working with your opposition for a mutually favorable outcome.
They work together on keeping 3rd parties out (or at least irrelevant). It benefits them; it harms everyone else. There are photos of Trump with Clinton. The 2 parties work together to screw over everyone else.
And even if we set that aside, the way to nullify third party candidates is to elect popular candidates. It is only when voters don't like either choice that third parties become a factor, so this "plot" would be self sabotage.
2016; Trump vs Clinton. 2020; Trump vs Biden. The politicians in 2020 are less popular than 2016; 3rd parties did worse. Politicians latched onto this and they are giving worse candidates to reduce the odds of a 3rd party coming to power.
"Elites" don't choose the nominees, the voters do.
The elites pick the menu and give recommendations to a relatively naive voter base. If someone orders food from a menu at a restaurant; did the customer pick their food or did the restaurant pick their food out of the available options? Lets say you want to eat a hamburger and a hamburger is not on the menu and you can't go anywhere else. Who decided that you didn't eat a hamburger? You or the restaurant?
The elites make recommendations and promote those recommendations. The voters pick from the options. The elites won't promote someone that is a threat to their power.
States decide how to run their elections, not the federal government.
So then blue states should do rank choice voting for POTUS elections and that sets the precedent for battleground states to eventually follow suit.
Wow, you're taking the most serious responsibility on earth and acting like it's on par with operating the fryer at McDonald's.
Just don't have the nukes fly unless we get attacked first and work with foreign countries to eliminate nukes.
The elites never chose Trump, in fact they all hate him.
That's fair; but in 2024 and even in 2020; the republican elites support Trump.
You said Biden underperforms which you cannot say because Biden hasn't ran since 2020, so you're just making stuff up.
He right now is losing the popular vote to Trump (2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden vs. Kennedy vs. West vs. Stein Polls | RealClearPolling). Biden will probably lose to Trump in 2024 because people think he's mentally asleep. Dean Phillips, Cenk Uygur, or Marian Williamson would be demolishing Trump. Trump only lost in 2020 because COVID was bad then and he got the blame for COVID.
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@TheUnderdog
They work together on keeping 3rd parties out (or at least irrelevant). It benefits them; it harms everyone else.
That is absolutely not how it works.
You keep portraying this as mainstream parties vs third parties, that is not the battle. Third parties in our current system are not a threat to win, the only impact they can have is to be a spoiler, so whichever party stands to benefit will bolster that third party while the other will try to take it down
That's exactly what we're seeing. Kanye West's flirtation with a third party run in 2020 was entirely a creation of the Trump campaign, and Cornell West's campaign donations have come almost entirely from republicans. RFK Jr.'s campaign has gone back on forth. Fox news had him on regularly trying to bolster his campaign right after he left the Democratic party to run as an independent, then they attacked him when they learned that polling showed he would take more votes from Trump. Then they stopped attacking him when the polling flipped and showed his candidacy took more votes from Biden. That seems to now be flipping again so what follows is predictable.
It's basic human nature, people are going to do whatever is in their own personal best interests. Third parties are not a threat so there is no reason for any political party to treat them as such, but they are spoilers so that's exactly what the campaigns are using them for.
There are photos of Trump with Clinton.
The Clintons attended Trump and Melania's wedding. They used to be on friendly terms, that changed when Trump ran against her. Perfectly normal human behavior, not conspiracy.
2016; Trump vs Clinton. 2020; Trump vs Biden. The politicians in 2020 are less popular than 2016
Again, this is because our politics is more divided than it has been in our lifetimes. There was a time when the presidency was respected and it was expected that both parties would rally around the president in a time of need. That is completely gone. News networks now operate as 24/7 prapoganda networks, and with social media you no longer need credentials to be able to spread your views to millions of people. We do not live in the same times.
The elites make recommendations and promote those recommendations. The voters pick from the options.
That is not how it works. Candidates decide for themselves whether they want to run based on the protects of them winning. No one picked Ron Desantis, he ran because he managed to build a large national profile so at the time he shared to have a really good shot. This is why politicians launch "exploratory committees", it's a committee whose job is to determine whether the candidate can really appeal to voters on a national stage.
The reason there are so few options is because there are only a few individuals out there that have a real chance of winning the voters over. Anyone who doesn't will just waste their time and the massive amount of money it takes to run a political campaign.
So then blue states should do rank choice voting for POTUS elections and that sets the precedent for battleground states to eventually follow suit.
Not opposed to it in principal but would not support it unless implemented nationally otherwise all that would do is bolster the prospect of a third party spoiler. If only the blue states did it then that would increase the odds of a third party winning one or two of the blue states thereby handing the presidency over to the republican candidate. That's what third parties do. National popular vote with ranked choice voting would be ideal, but that will never happen.
He right now is losing the popular vote to Trump (2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden vs. Kennedy vs. West vs. Stein Polls | RealClearPolling)
Irrelevant. We're talking about actual elections, not polling data 7 months out. Clinton was winning every poll heading into November 2016, we all know how that turned out.
Biden will probably lose to Trump in 2024 because people think he's mentally asleep.
I seriously doubt that. People think he's asleep because that's what Fox news tells them to believe, but as people have started to pay more attention (which will only grow as we get closer) they are seeing that this narrative is complete nonsense. You are also disregarding Trump's many flaws catching people's attention, including his own cognitive impairment along with his complete buffoonishness, childishness, and narcism on full display in these criminal proceedings.
Dean Phillips, Cenk Uygur, or Marian Williamson would be demolishing Trump.
Nonsense. They have no appeal to a larger audience and only seem as viable as they do now because they haven't been subjected to the attack machine.
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@Double_R
The reason there are so few options is because there are only a few individuals out there that have a real chance of winning the voters over.
This I don't think is true. Someone that agrees with Bernie Sanders 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Bernie Sanders would in the general. Someone that agrees with Trump 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Trump would win in the general.
If only the blue states did it then that would increase the odds of a third party winning one or two of the blue states thereby handing the presidency over to the republican candidate.
Then maybe the blue states could have a similar framework to the National Popular vote compact; where the bill only takes into effect when 270 electoral votes agree to the bill.
Clinton was winning every poll heading into November 2016, we all know how that turned out.
The 2016 and 2020 polls both had the democrat doing better than they actually did. Trump outperformed the 2016 and the 2020 polls, and he probably will outperform the 2024 polls.
People think he's asleep because that's what Fox news tells them to believe
6 in 10 Americans Doubt Biden's Mental Capability: Poll | TIME. This includes many people that would vote for him over Trump; nobody says this about Dean Phillips or Cenk Uygur or Marian Williamson.
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@TheUnderdog
Someone that agrees with Bernie Sanders 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Bernie Sanders would in the general. Someone that agrees with Trump 100% of the time would win pretty much as many voters as Trump would win in the general.
That is just not true. You're assuming people vote based on policy, which they absolutely do not. Most people have no idea what the policies of their stated candidate are (ask Trump voters what he plans to do), they vote based on how they feel. And for someone new to come along and declare themselves a candidate for president with no public background they're immediately starting off on a skeptical lense because it looks like they just want power.
Then maybe the blue states could have a similar framework to the National Popular vote compact; where the bill only takes into effect when 270 electoral votes agree to the bill.
Every state that had signed up is a blue state.
The compact will never work for the same reason the major political parties would never work together to get rid of third party candidates: people are always going to act within their own personal best interests.
The states that vote blue support the compact because we all know democrats would benefit from a popular vote system which they are aligned with. Red states will oppose it because it hurts republican candidates. And swing states will oppose it even more fervently because they are the benefactors of our current system. Every 4 years these handful of states get all the attention because they have all the power. There is no way they would agree to give that up in the name of what's best for everyone.
The 2016 and 2020 polls both had the democrat doing better than they actually did. Trump outperformed the 2016 and the 2020 polls
That's why I pointed out that this was over the past few years. Both of your examples are pre January 6th and more importantly, pre overturning of Roe v Wade. Since then democrats have outperformed the polls in nearly every single election.
6 in 10 Americans Doubt Biden's Mental Capability: Poll | TIME. This includes many people that would vote for him over Trump; nobody says this about Dean Phillips or Cenk Uygur or Marian Williamson.
Again, none of those candidates have been subjected to the machine. Joe Biden was very popular until he started running, when your face is being plastered on Fox news and OANN every night being portrayed as senile or corrupt that will change how the public sees you. Biden was in public life for 50 years and served for 8 years as the Vice President yet look at how effective the attack machine was against him. No one even knows who these other candidates are so imagine what they would do to them.
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@Double_R
You're assuming people vote based on policy, which they absolutely do not.
In the general, they do. In the primary, they do not (both parties).
Most people have no idea what the policies of their stated candidate are (ask Trump voters what he plans to do)
Most Trump voters would vote for DeSantis over Biden (or even Nikki Haley over Biden). MAGA people like his pro ICE and right wing on RSG beliefs.
And swing states will oppose it even more fervently because they are the benefactors of our current system.
What about Swing states controlled by democrats? Wouldn't they want to lock in their power? Like, why wouldn't Virginia join the compact before Youngkin? They had the votes.
people are always going to act within their own personal best interests.
Maybe I should vote for someone that isn't acting in their own best interests; but the country's best interests (3rd party). Biden is putting party before country; something the left gets angry at MAGA politicians for doing.
Both of your examples are pre January 6th and more importantly, pre overturning of Roe v Wade.
The US public is over Jan 6 and Roe V Wade being overturned is something society knew the GOP wanted. Imagine a society where 40% of the population supports legalized segregation and one party (Party A) backs segregation. A lot of people would vote for Party B solely because they oppose segregation (and would vote for Party A if segregation was denounced by both parties); but if segregation is a big issue for 20 years, then if segregation gets brought back, then anyone who votes for party B because they never brought back segregation would have already been voting for party B while segregation wasn't reality.
Joe Biden was very popular until he started running
Fair point.
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@Double_R
I think I'm voting for Biden. I think his mental issues can be fixed with aderol.
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@TheUnderdog
MAGA people like his pro ICE and right wing on RSG beliefs.
They like his rhetoric. Most have no idea what his policies on the subject are, hell I don’t even think he knows.
What about Swing states controlled by democrats? Wouldn't they want to lock in their power? Like, why wouldn't Virginia join the compact before Youngkin? They had the votes.
Because they still have to answer to the voters of their state, and their voters love the fact that they get to play a pivotal role every election. They’re not choosing against their own power, they’re choosing in favor of it.
Maybe I should vote for someone that isn't acting in their own best interests; but the country's best interests (3rd party). Biden is putting party before country; something the left gets angry at MAGA politicians for doing.
First of all, I keep explaining why you’re wrong about that but you keep pretending as if what you’re saying is not at issue. If you’re going to keep going back and forth you could at least recognize when a claim is in dispute.
Biden has a far better chance of beating Trump than Cenk or Williamson. Either respond to my points explaining why or just drop it.
Second, when I point out that people act in their own personal interests I’m speaking broadly which applies to groups. Any individual might be able to set themselves aside for a greater cause, but once people start working within groups that dynamic starts to change.
Third parties would be no different. Many start off as well intended, but once someone (and especially the people they surround themselves with) gets a taste of real power they do the same thing the rest of us do. Very few individuals cling to their principals in that situation and there’s no way to know who those individuals would turn out to be.
The US public is over Jan 6
Right wingers are over January 6th. Independents and swing voters certainly remember it.
Roe V Wade being overturned is something society knew the GOP wanted.
It doesn’t matter. Most people do not follow day to day politics or spend hours a day arguing with people on debateart.com. People react to change when they see it with their own eyes. Many people had no idea what would happen if Roe v Wade got overturned, they’re just now figuring it out. That is why this issue us so galvanizing and it will continue to be until the right aligns itself with where the rest of the country is.