If child porn and sex with kids should be banned because it exploits children, then ...

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 28
Topic's author
#1
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
We should ban any non essentials that used child slavery.  So say good bye to chocolate and all products with it, 

Also all of the products below:


So many people are giving Korea a hard time based on him being into kids because they think it exploits the kids, and I just think it's hypocrisy.

I'm only into adult women; I just think 15 years look gross.

But just don't be hypocritical.  If you are against exploiting kids, then be consistent and boycott all products that kids got exploited to make.
Topic's author
#2
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@Best.Korea
I figure you would like this.  No way is society going to ban all products made with child exploitation.
#3
JoeBob
JoeBob's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 1,594
3
3
7
JoeBob's avatar
JoeBob
3
3
7
What’s the full title? It’s cut off.
#4
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,166
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
There is a sliver of a point in implying that the intersection of sex and minors deserves more careful analysis than is typical but "what is typical" is a profoundly low bar being best described as an instant frothing rage.

The first thirty seconds of actually thinking reveals obvious absurdities in your analysis and claims.

A) Just because something can be produced using slavery, doesn't mean it has to. Neither cotton nor chocolate require slavery or child slavery.
A.1) This is the vegan fallacy: because some cows are mistreated dairy as a concept is evil

B) Your exaggerated definitions of slavery are disingenuous. Perhaps no child should be in the position where working is the only way to survive BUT that does not mean working is then "slavery". Slavery is when other human beings don't give you a choice. Not when physics doesn't give you a choice.

B.1) If children are not actually being enslaved, but sustaining themselves by producing something I pay for; and I stop paying for it... then rather than saving them I'll be condemning them to death.
Topic's author
#5
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
A) Just because something can be produced using slavery, doesn't mean it has to. Neither cotton nor chocolate require slavery or child slavery.
But the way it is currently being obtained is using slavery, so treat it as that.

A.1) This is the vegan fallacy: because some cows are mistreated dairy as a concept is evil
I'm plant based; some up with a better analogy; I don't see cows as my equal and I don't see meat as murder, but I hold myself to a higher standard than others.

 Perhaps no child should be in the position where working is the only way to survive BUT that does not mean working is then "slavery". Slavery is when other human beings don't give you a choice. 
Are you defending child labor based on you thinking it doesn't count as, "slavery"?  All 8 year olds working jobs like adults is child exploitation.

B.1) If children are not actually being enslaved, but sustaining themselves by producing something I pay for; and I stop paying for it... then rather than saving them I'll be condemning them to death.
Or you just make them obsolete and you cause them to go back to their families.

Either child exploitation is okay (so child porn is allowed) or it is not (so we would have to ban a bunch of products made with child labor).
Topic's author
#6
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@JoeBob
It was intentional.  I needed a cliff hanger.
#7
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,166
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
A) Just because something can be produced using slavery, doesn't mean it has to. Neither cotton nor chocolate require slavery or child slavery.
But the way it is currently being obtained is using slavery, so treat it as that.
I doubt a significant amount of the production is from slavery.


Or you just make them obsolete and you cause them to go back to their families.
If they could stay with their families without working they would already be doing that.


Either child exploitation is okay (so child porn is allowed)
Child labor and child porn are two different things with potentially very different psychological and social implications.


so we would have to ban a bunch of products made with child labor
No, we would just ban child labor and products imported from child labor.
#8
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
Why does chocolate enslave children?


Though, it's only an intellectually stylised society  that acts upon irrational social concepts.

In so much as, what is the difference between a fecund female who has existed for 15 years and 364days,

And a fecund female who has existed for 16 years and one day.

Why is one gross and the other not?


Be honest.

When they walk up the HIgh Street in their tight leggings.

A. How do you differentiate lifespan, and therefore differentiate between the gross and the non-gross?

B. Do you really think that a fecund 15 years and 364 days female in tight leggings walking up the High Street, is gross?


Come on Big Boy.

What we have to do, is learn to act upon impulses, in relation to stylised and therefore legal social expectations.

Thankfully we are still currently able to think what we want to think.
#9
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,458
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
Nobody is giving best korea a hard time because I assume he is being a troll. Tigerlord is pro kid fucking if it is done after getting government to give you a piece of paper that says you can fuck a specific child. 

There is also.a difference between exploiting kids through putting your penis in them than by employing them for $20 a week to make chocolate.  

$20 in a 3rd world country can go a long way to make sure your family eats . Putting your dick in a 5 year old does not make it easier for your family to eat, unless you essentially sold her as a sex slave but are calling it marriage to morally justify it. 

Make no mistake it is sex slavery. A 10 year old doesn't have the mental or physicsll.capacity  to resist a grown man. 
#10
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,458
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
Are you defending child labor based on you thinking it doesn't count as, "slavery"? All 8 year olds working jobs like adults is child exploitation.


Or you just make them obsolete and you cause them to go back to their families.

Either child exploitation is okay (so child porn is allowed) or it is not (so we would have to ban a bunch of products made with child labor).
Exploitation is not slavery. Let's imagine that it is slavery though. Let's imagine a world where children are enslaved and we are okay eating chocolate made by these slaves. 

Would we then have to also approve of abuse of these slaves? Would we automatically have to approve of fucking children slaves?

I don't get the argument here.  


#11
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,625
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
Nobody is giving best korea a hard time because I assume he is being a troll.
Well, I already admitted to being a troll many times.

But I guess I am just too cute to not be played with.
#12
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,625
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Do you really think that a fecund 15 years and 364 days female in tight leggings walking up the High Street, is gross?
Anyone under the age of 18 is gross.

So even if person is 17 and 364 days old, he is completely gross and unattractive.

Only at 18 he becomes attractive.

That is normal and makes sense.

#13
FishChaser
FishChaser's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 234
2
4
6
FishChaser's avatar
FishChaser
2
4
6
-->
@WyIted
I am in support of loosening the definition of slavery, much like I am in favor of loosening your gfs pussy with my fat cock.

For example, just because you're being paid doesn't mean you aren't under some form of slavery imo.
Topic's author
#14
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
I doubt a significant amount of the production is from slavery.
With this as precedent, if child porn made up some, but not a significant amount of the porn some dude hypothetically watched, then it would be deemed ok if you were being ideologically consistent.

If they could stay with their families without working they would already be doing that.
Or the kids got kidnapped by child traffickers.

Child labor and child porn are two different things with potentially very different psychological and social implications.
How?

so we would have to ban a bunch of products made with child labor
No, we would just ban child labor and products imported from child labor.
How are the bolded words different in this context?
Topic's author
#15
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Why does chocolate enslave children?
The labor to produce chocolate enslaves children.

What we have to do, is learn to act upon impulses, in relation to stylised and therefore legal social expectations.
This is the, "pedophilia is ok as long as you don't act on it" argument (an argument I agree with).
Topic's author
#16
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@WyIted
Exploitation is not slavery.
What's the difference?  They are both bad.

Let's imagine a world where children are enslaved and we are okay eating chocolate made by these slaves. 

Would we then have to also approve of abuse of these slaves?
I would say you have to at least tolerate any necessary abuse done by the slaves; if you can't, then don't buy chocolate; it's not like you need it to survive.
#17
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,166
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
I doubt a significant amount of the production is from slavery.
With this as precedent, if child porn made up some, but not a significant amount of the porn some dude hypothetically watched, then it would be deemed ok if you were being ideologically consistent.
Chocolate made from slavery is indistinguishable to the reseller and end consumer from chocolate made without slavery.

To the degree that is true of underage porn I do not condemn porn consumers for not boycotting porn entirely because a small minority of non-obvious instances are slightly underage.


Child labor and child porn are two different things with potentially very different psychological and social implications.
How?
For one the urge (especially in males) to be productive manifests well before the urge to mate. Ten year olds can definitely want to work and can get all the natural satisfaction from achieving something.

Apprenticeships and teen labor is not necessarily a hardship as even in rich countries where it is definitely not necessary some do it for the sake of satisfaction or acquiring non-essential goods.


so we would have to ban a bunch of products made with child labor
No, we would just ban child labor and products imported from child labor.
How are the bolded words different in this context?
maybe they aren't, but you clearly indicated in the OP that all chocolate would be a problem as opposed to only the chocolate from companies known to enslave people.
#18
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@TheUnderdog
And what about the rest of my questions?

Because relative to social and legal expectations, just about everyone with an attraction to young fecund females will have "paedophilic" responses to visual perceptions.

Depending upon where one lives of course, age of consent ranges from 11 years to 20 years.

Which shows really that paedophilia is a social concept rather than a sexual attraction.

I would suggest that sexuality as we refer to it today, is an innate procreational drive, modified by social pressure, over time.


And just for the record, I'm a bog standard British heterosexual male.

Who see's young fecund females walking up the high street in their tight leggings, and thinks accordingly.

And any bog standard heterosexual male who says that he thinks otherwise, is lying.
#19
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
But what if you don't know their age?

Looks can be very deceptive.

My daughter is very youthful looking, and still gets asked for ID when purchasing alcohol.

She is 39.

What I'm saying is, we base such conclusions on perception rather than knowledge.

If you don't know if someone is under or over the age of 18, then it's impossible to conclude that they are either gross or not gross.
#20
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida is currently the subject of a sex-trafficking investigation, which is looking into whether he had sex with an underage 17-year-old girl, among other issues.
#21
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
That P Diddy raid was wild.
#22
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Homeland security can raid P Diddy’s homes but can’t stop illegals at the borders ?
#23
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
You misspelled "escort"
#24
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

I didn't.
#25
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

It was probably something you saw on your phone.
#26
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
#27
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

Was that your Gulfstream that took P Diddy out of the country?
#28
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,969
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
I was busy filming you escorting them across the border.