Who supports liberty more?

Author: TheUnderdog

Posts

Total: 14
Topic's author
#1
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
Areas the GOP establishment is small government:

1. Tax cuts for globalists.
2. Gun rights (unless trans).
3. Free speech (unless it’s an LGBT book).  They mean free speech for actual Nazis, and those that want to Terminate the constitution (Trump).

Areas the Democrat establishment is small government:

1. Immigration
2. Military genocide
3. Abortion
4. Drugs
5. Qualified immunity
6. LGB
7. Transgenderism
8. (At this point in time) Free speech.  I see them advocating for stopping the ban of LGBT books in schools, and they have accepted that actual Nazis should get free speech.  If only the conservatives thought the same thing about LGBT pride indoctrination books.
9. Parental rights to raise theybies.  Conservative parents have the parental rights to homeschool their kid.  The same should be true for LGBT advocate parents.


Who seems like the biggest defenders of liberty?

I don’t like either party, but I think I know the answer to this question.
#2
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
The blind partisanship disguised as objectivity that you display here is breathtaking. Let me take the worst of a truly absurd lineup:


8. (At this point in time) Free speech.  I see them advocating for stopping the ban of LGBT books in schools, and they have accepted that actual Nazis should get free speech.  If only the conservatives thought the same thing about LGBT pride indoctrination books.
If underage homosexual rape depictions in school libraries is free speech, then the mirrored position for "actual nazis" would be to have nazi propaganda cartoons in schools.

I think if you asked "conservatives" you'd find they do think the same thing about nazi cartoons and underage homosexual rape depictions: neither should be shown to prepubescent children and both should be banned from schools meant for minors.
#3
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
Next you can do "Who cares about the truth more" and explain why you thought a trivial correction to a long standing self-defense law was "sadistic". https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10579-stupid-bill
#4
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,492
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@TheUnderdog
Areas the Democrat establishment is small government:

1. Immigration

Fair enough

2. Military genocide

Wrong which is why the biggest opponents of military interventionism is the right wing currently

3. Abortion

Fair enough

4. Drugs

Kinda except they want to set up free heroin locations and free  subaxone.

5. Qualified immunity

It's a mixed bag here. Different sides bitch about qualified immunity for different groups

6. LGB

Okay Fair enough although the new GOP is pretty open to it

7. Transgenderism

Wrong they want transitions subsidized and to push this sort of shit on kids in school

8. (At this point in time) Free speech

Wrong. The FBI was literally sending in requests to censor to Twitter to censor. You can say Twitter is better but big tech in general is anti free speech. The one area where conservatives struggle with respecting free speech currently is with antisemitism because the evangelicals love Israel more than they love America. 

It's laughable that conservatives are being fired for conservative opinions are meeting fierce opposition to even speaking on campus and are being deplatformed left and right and yet you think liberals are more pro free speech. 
#5
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,050
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
6. LGB

Okay Fair enough although the new GOP is pretty open to it

Wrong. LGB is also being pushed in schools. It's also part of the liberal quota system and it's next to impossible to get a movie about straight people produced in Hollywood today due to the soft ban on straight media.

Put a chick in it an make her gay is the norm.
#6
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,492
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Greyparrot
Do you think thy will destroy the next spider verse movie by making spider Gwen a butch dyke? Or are they going to keep her as a Tom boy?
Topic's author
#7
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
If underage homosexual rape depictions in school libraries is free speech, then the mirrored position for "actual nazis" would be to have nazi propaganda cartoons in schools.
The left doesn't want to promote porn books in schools.
#8
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
If underage homosexual rape depictions in school libraries is free speech, then the mirrored position for "actual nazis" would be to have nazi propaganda cartoons in schools.
The left doesn't want to promote porn books in schools.
Well then they won't have a problem with banning depictions of underage anal sex in schools....


BUT THEY DO and [censored for politeness] like you give them cover by believing and spreading whatever they tell you.

Topic's author
#9
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@WyIted
2. Military genocide

Wrong which is why the biggest opponents of military interventionism is the right wing currently
It's this weird situation.  The right doesn't want us in Ukraine, but they want more military money.  The left wants us in Ukraine, but they want less military money.  I think a smaller military budget is more pro small government than the national demographics of which country gets military aid.  I think we should cut the military budget probably to 1% of our GDP and stop funding Ukraine.

4. Drugs

Kinda except they want to set up free heroin locations and free  subaxone.
I don't agree with free drugs; but I don't think the left wants to make drugs free unless it's for rehabilitation purposes.  I live in a state where commonly used drugs (weed) are legal; no left winger I met told me they want weed to be free.


5. Qualified immunity

It's a mixed bag here. Different sides bitch about qualified immunity for different groups
Qualified immunity is more government power.  Libertarians don't like government power.

7. Transgenderism

Wrong they want transitions subsidized and to push this sort of shit on kids in school
When I said this, I meant they want less government restrictions and more parental rights for who is allowed to get a gender surgery.  They don't want to make it taxpayer funded (at least not yet unless it's a UHC ethos which the right is more libertarian on but the reason the right doesn't want UHC is because it would mean you would raise taxes on the globalists and to a lesser extent, the middle class).  Now I don't agree with UHC; I am totally alright with poor inner city or trailer park children dying from lack of healthcare because I don't like raising other people's kids with my tax dollars and I'm fiscally libertarian.  But I don't expect everyone to have this view.  I think to get a gender surgery, you either need to be at least 16 or be on hormones at least 1 year or both.

It's laughable that conservatives are being fired for conservative opinions are meeting fierce opposition to even speaking on campus and are being deplatformed left and right and yet you think liberals are more pro free speech. 
I've been blocked on another account I have by about 30 or so people; about half of them are left and about half of them are right wing.  When Ye went anti semetic, I heard left companies saying, "We support his right to state these horrible opinions, but we just don't want to associate with him." and boycotting people is free speech.  Just like you wouldn't want to watch an NFL game with Colin Kaepernick and Taylor Swift.  Just like a liberal would boycott Kid Rock music.  Boycotting is free speech.  Big Tech actually censoring conservatives is Big Tech boycotting those conservatives.  If you want to protect the free speech of people online, then it makes sense for the government to buy out Big Tech and then conservatives can say whatever political messages they want on a government owned internet which is subject to 1st amendment protections.

But this requires more government power and government spending, which conservatives claim to not like.
Topic's author
#10
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
Well then they won't have a problem with banning depictions of underage anal sex in schools....


BUT THEY DO and fucks like you give them cover by believing and spreading whatever they tell you.
I like blunt; so I ignored your censor and bolded what I thought you meant.  Being polite to me is irrelevant; I care about facts more than decorum (I'm like Ben Shapiro on that).

But yeah; ban porn books in school and let LGBT activism books be present in schools because it's free speech.  Problem solved.
#11
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
But yeah; ban porn books in school and let LGBT activism books be present in schools because it's free speech.  Problem solved.
Free speech does not apply to curriculum which are by definition curated.

You can preach from the bible and nobody can stop you because that's free speech. That doesn't mean you can use public funds to assign children bible reading assignments.

Banning sexually explicit material from school libraries and curriculum is just the absolute most basic level of regulation (along with banning teaching naziasm as a good thing).
Topic's author
#12
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
You can preach from the bible and nobody can stop you because that's free speech. That doesn't mean you can use public funds to assign children bible reading assignments.
That I agree with (along with pro LGBT books), but I don't think there is anything wrong with pro LGBT book or Bibles in the library for kids to check out if they want too.

Banning sexually explicit material from school libraries and curriculum is just the absolute most basic level of regulation (along with banning teaching naziasm as a good thing).
This I agree with.  I don't even think pro Nazi books should be allowed in the library.

But I think an idea must have at least 10% national support (or a more extreme stance) in order for there to be books about it allowed on the library; if the view gets over 90% popularity, then it can be taught in the classroom.  All abortion books can be in the library, but not in the classroom.
#13
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@TheUnderdog
But I think an idea must have at least 10% national support (or a more extreme stance) in order for there to be books about it allowed on the library
Congrats now you are a book banner.

Except it's a government library so fewer books is a smaller government.
Topic's author
#14
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 4,340
3
5
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
5
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
I'd rather if someone want to read an unpopular book (like a pro Hitler book), then they can just order it on Amazon.  Because it's a bad idea to have a pro Hitler book in school in the library.  It's banning unpopular books from school, but not everyday life.

But pro LGBT opinions poll at more than 10%.  So does the, "What is a woman?" book.  Have them both in public school libraries.

For city libraries, I would have the minimum percentage be 0%.