This Website was Never Great, and Thats Okay

Author: Theweakeredge

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#1
Theweakeredge
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Hi, hello, im glad to see y'all missed me.

Over years of development i've come to this website for a lotta' things, a way to "sharpen" my brain, a way to develop my argumentation- and in some ways it did do that, but in other ways it stunted me. This place is a cesspot of conspiracy theories, bigotry, and fierce anti-intellectualism(really ironic considering the website's supposed purpose). In some ways, it did help me learn to format my arguments and how to argue against some....real...... opinions- opinions are the very charitable version, but in others it made me so so defensive, always assuming people were arguing disengeniously or with such poor frameworks they needed to be deconstructed on the basic level.

The simple truth is that most regular people have better opinions than the vast majority of people here, and they don't need to justify it with increasingly less intelligible excuses. And, i think i've finally moved past the need for this website. Thanks for all the time i spent here, thanks to all the people who weren't bigoted and folk who really wanted to just learn and explore. I think the fact that I haven't participated in a debate in YEARS now and yet still sit in the Number 11 spot is really telling of whats happening to this website. I want people to remember that I moved between spots in the gap of a few months, and I was all the way down in the 20s for a while, its not like i was staying high up.

I hope the people who stay here get something out of this website. I hope you bigots learn empathy, for others and yourselves, i hope all of you who still believe all you need to do to stop bigotry is extend a hand and have a conversation learn to give yourselves more kindness. 

Bye, i guess, have fun keepin' on.
#2
WyIted
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The explanation for your experience here is what you have in your bio

The only reason i ever come back to this forsaken website is spite- spite and the very slim hope that some conservative see's something i write-writes it off-then one day, weeks-months-years later- realizes what an asshat they were.
Intelligent people who renintellectually honest assume they're wrong and try hard to be disproven. You come here to preach. 

You aren't going to sharpen your arguments because when your premises are challenged, you are going to use copes or just don't a new argument.

Nobody would ask you to change your opinion if an argument is disproven. For a number of reasons

1. Maybe you are arguing devils advocate.

2. Maybe that is just one of 100 reasons you believe something. 

3. Maybe your belief is emotion based and that's okay also

However when challenged its just not going to go well if you are here to preach.

Reading g through your debates I can see that usually most of your energy is spent defending your arguments. You spend very little energy on rebuttals and understanding g your opponent's arguments. Your debate ranking is because the best debaters on the site just don't do many debates. You are not the 12th best debater here. Here is a list of debaterswho have gracedthe site at the same time with you and who re better, and this is off the top of my head.

1. Me
2. Oromagi
3. Barney
4. Whiteflame.
5. Lunatic
6. Theft
7. I like pie
8. Danielle
9. Airmax 
10. Mikal
11. Coal
12. Rationalmadman
13. David


I will list another 20 later if I feel like it but also add a anyone ahead of you I the rankings as well
#3
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@Theweakeredge
I think the fact that I haven't participated in a debate in YEARS now and yet still sit in the Number 11 spot is really telling of whats happening to this website. I want people to remember that I moved between spots in the gap of a few months, and I was all the way down in the 20s for a while, its not like i was staying high up.
It has been a year since it changed the rating system such that most of them are non-rated. That is why.



#4
WyIted
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Zarroetre
Badger
Austin
Best.korea


#5
Mall
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@WyIted
We're all comrades.
#6
Mall
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@Theweakeredge
Debate.org was where it was at.
#7
Best.Korea
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@Theweakeredge
This, for me, is the best debating site.

I know this site doesnt work for everyone, and there are plenty of reasons why many people choose to leave.

If you want to stay on this site, you have to:

1. Understand that arguments are opinions, and someone's opinion shouldnt bother you too much to make you quit.

In fact, most arguments are easy to disagree with, since their premises tend to be assumptions.

2. Understand that its not about rating or winning

Rating system is designed in a way that someone has to lose a debate and lose rating.

There is no way to have someone win without someone losing, because system is based on that.

Of course, in my opinion, the system improved from what it was before.

There is no more endless farming of wins from new users.

But the point is, if you focus too much on rating, you will begin hating the site because rating is very slow to increase.

Once you give up on that, it allows you to have more focus on important things, such as learning and having fun.

Really, anyone who approaches this site with "I gotta win every debate" is going to quit the site after losing few debates, and thats what usually happens.

I am not saying that you shouldnt try to win, I am just saying that it shouldnt be your top priority here.

3. Learning how to learn

Most people approach the debate with "I must defeat my opponent" without seeing the obvious.

The obvious is that your opponent might be right, and you are so eager to prove him wrong that you cant accept that he is right.

One of the greatest skills in debating is being able to debate all sides of the topics.

Now, its too bad that you are leaving the site. 

I wish you well and I hope you come back once you get bored of debating in real life.
#8
Swagnarok
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Most people are hypocrites when they accuse someone else of bigotry. There are vast swaths of the US population who you hold in disdain and contempt, and I don't just mean pedophiles or felons. The only way you can, in your own mind, get away with this is because you believe some lofty rule exists justifying all of your conduct and attitudes while the same is withheld from "them".
There are no true heroes and no true villains at this stage. Just two angry tribes flinging poo at each other.
#9
Mharman
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@Theweakeredge
This place is a cesspot of conspiracy theories, bigotry, and fierce anti-intellectualism
There's definitely some conspiracy theories, and plenty of anti-intellectualism. There's been a bit of bigotry as well. That being said, I have a feeling that less than half of what you'd cite as bigotry is actual bigotry, and I'm curious as to what you'd cite as anti-intellectualism as well.

Nonetheless, goodbye. I've never met or debated you (so I don't really know the type of person you are), but I wish you a good life from here on out.
#10
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Swagnarok
There are no true heroes and no true villains at this stage. Just two angry tribes flinging poo at each other.
I disagree.

#11
zedvictor4
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@Theweakeredge
Easy to use site with a good mix of users.

What more does one require.

A medal for existing perhaps?
#12
Amber
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@Theweakeredge
Easy to use site with a good mix of users.
Until, as I have review the DebateArt.com and Moderator logs...........far too many are deleted. Why? 

Unpopular opinions?

Better arguments kicking the shit out of popular users of the site?

I mean really, just how "free speech" vs "anti-trolling" is this place?

#13
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@Amber

The problems you mention are something that I am working on a bit. I am in talks to acquire the site which will most likely fail. The community was more active and vibrant but a woke person was made moderator and the bans turned the place more into a hive mind. Low quality posters who were right wing managed to escape the ban and since intelligent leftists could not find good debate opponents due to the censorship they left. When th woke moderator stepped down another woke moderator was elected who took the problems created by the first and made them worse. Then he was replaced by a moderator who was not woke but bent his knee to the woke mob too often. 

The current mod team is oromagi, barney and whitelfame. All liberal but none are woke liberals. They have made mistakes with who they have banned as well as mistakes with who they haven't banned. 

Basically nothing the current mod team can do to erase the previous damage. 

I am in talks to acquire the site. Those talks have already stalled and I likely won't be able to do it. I am probably going to have to bootstrap a type of clone site to save the parts of the community that were driven away or rebuild a similar one. 

Here is the initial business plan that I need to work on with a team.

1. Create an MVP target the religious portion of the forum which thrives due to the lack of moderation on that part of the site but could thrive more if they were just left alone. It's not the users I want but it serves as a base for what is being built. Slowly expand that micro forum to a debate section and then add a wide array of topics.

2. Spend $1000 on targeted ads of people liking the DART and DDO pages on Facebook, and Twitter.  Spend whatever is left on that for an ad on top of thr Google results for when those reminiscing type in debate.org. 

The 3rd phase I am not sure will exist but hopefully do something to get the site paying for itself. So maybe pulling in $25 a month in income, and then just put a heavy thumb on the commu itu in terms of cultural influence. Essentially a more Laissez-Faire type of forum that remains within the bounds of what is legal, while banning those who hurl insults. Some insults are fine but we do need to draw a line and right now the line is not consistent.

I will probably have the forum up in 30 days. I built none before but I didn't really own it and it just wasn't good.

So the community you see will either change or the useful portions of the community or what remains of it will migrate to my site which will be completed by Christmas.  I know they will.migrate because it's just going to be too convenient not to. We are talking 

1. Actually being in the app store
2. Alerts on the phone for messages debate rounds etc.
3. Consistent new drama from reaching out to popular content creators with preexisting beefs.
4. A system for monetizing some debates for debaters . Essentially have a small business pay Linus tech tips to argue their product is the best or something like that. 

It's either online debate will be dead or they will be on my site.  So I will fix these issues and I already have a few developers who have promised to donate me some time to help. 
#14
RationalMadman
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@Theweakeredge
Over years of development i've come to this website for a lotta' things, a way to "sharpen" my brain, a way to develop my argumentation- and in some ways it did do that, but in other ways it stunted me.
When you start like this and don't expand on how it did that or how it stunted you, it defeats making this your intro line after the 'hi I see you missed me'.
This place is a cesspot of conspiracy theories, bigotry, and fierce anti-intellectualism(really ironic considering the website's supposed purpose).
Cesspit* or cesspool* not cesspot. While this is full of that in your perspective, the world is full of it too, the world is that cesspit. At least here you can challenge the very few who show up.
In some ways, it did help me learn to format my arguments and how to argue against some....real...... opinions- opinions are the very charitable version, but in others it made me so so defensive, always assuming people were arguing disengeniously or with such poor frameworks they needed to be deconstructed on the basic level.
They are arguing disingenuously with poor frameworks outside here. Outside of here in the 'real world' people are so full of illogical bs that many who believe right things are just lucky they believed what they were told by the right source on the right topic.

The simple truth is that most regular people have better opinions than the vast majority of people here,
You don't like the majority lean of the site, that's fine. This is such a tiny site that's even totally understandable. So what?

and they don't need to justify it with increasingly less intelligible excuses.
Yes they do, in fact being autistic myself I have had to learn how to calmly handle the dogshit logic most use and even befriend or love many who do. Whether relatives, friends or perhaps spouse. You have to learn to accept and see the stupid logic many use and not resent them for it. It's hard but it's doable, if you get there your general anger levels and blood pressure will reduce so much.

And, i think i've finally moved past the need for this website. Thanks for all the time i spent here, thanks to all the people who weren't bigoted and folk who really wanted to just learn and explore. I think the fact that I haven't participated in a debate in YEARS now and yet still sit in the Number 11 spot is really telling of whats happening to this website.
Based on everything you wrote in this, I think you can't handle debates against cunning, tactical opponents. You want it easy, you want to deal with very straightforwards opponents but then because you like them or you surround yourself only with those that agree with you, you end up unable to debate them on most things.

You don't like or thrive in debating.

I want people to remember that I moved between spots in the gap of a few months, and I was all the way down in the 20s for a while, its not like i was staying high up.
This site has a severe activity issue and you type so many thousands of characters per Round and pick opponents that are spread thin, that's how you kept that rating.

This website also doesn't reset seasons or cause elo-decay for inactivity.

I hope the people who stay here get something out of this website. I hope you bigots learn empathy, for others and yourselves,
They probably won't, you hoping it won't change that. You also lack empathy for the bigots.
i hope all of you who still believe all you need to do to stop bigotry is extend a hand and have a conversation learn to give yourselves more kindness. 
This is a very incoherent hope. You hope that people who:

a) still believe all they need to do to stop bigotry is extend a hand and have a conversation.

should:

b) learn to give themselves more kindness.

Okay...

#15
zedvictor4
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@Amber
Will be interesting to see what more you have to say.
#16
sadolite
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How great could a website with 25 active users be?  But with that said it is more intellectually stimulating than Facebook which has hundreds of millions of active users.
#17
ebuc
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@Theweakeredge
'Thinking is the best way to travel

You can fly as high as you want to, faster than light if you want to,

Speeding through the Universe, thinking is the best way to travel '  If you have stereo that is best way to listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOiZjwQKaU
#18
Amber
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@WyIted
Well said and understood. 
It will be a challenge I am sure, as I have no technical skills for hosting let alone even using apps/sites that even help you create your own site. I leave that to those who enjoy and are skilled at such things. I merely enjoy using opportunities provided to expand my knowledge and interpersonal communiation skills online. 
Amber
#19
zedvictor4
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@sadolite
Alexander was great.
#20
WyIted
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@ebuc
Thinking is the best way to travel

You can fly as high as you want to,
I think you went may have went a little too high. 

Time to touch grass. 
#21
ebuc
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@WyIted
I think you went may have went a little too high
True, on two occasions as 17 year old and 20 year old.  Aka drug induced psychosis. I was dumb the first time and suppose dumber the 2nd time, because of the first time.

Fortunately my two closet friends were there to babysit me for a few hours on both occasions.

Unlike drunkards, I was able to recall the next day all that occurred.
#22
sadolite
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@zedvictor4
Alexander was great. Not very intellectual stimulating, an opinion and unprovable. Try again.
#23
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@sadolite
Not my opinion, just quoting popular history books.


Great is as great does I suppose.

And greatness is perhaps either an ego trip or hero worship.

An opinion in other words.

Which doesn't necessarily come with an associated burden of proof.


Do you have any great tools?

Or are they just reliable tools that function appropriately?

#24
Bones
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@Theweakeredge
Not sure why you're talking as though you are some formidable competition when you've had such insignificant competition throughout your cherry picked debate run. 
#25
sadolite
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@zedvictor4
That's pretty good. The greatest tool I have  is my brain. Some have no tools at all.
#26
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Excellent post. Bragging about having a high rank on the website while also trashing it, noting such an insignificant accomplishment while also trying to be haughty and above it all…the poor spelling and grammar was the cherry on top…truly sent my sides into orbit. Salute to you sir
#27
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@sadolite
Nice.
#28
TheUnderdog
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@Theweakeredge
This place is a cesspot of conspiracy theories, bigotry, and fierce anti-intellectualism(really ironic considering the website's supposed purpose).
(From your perspective) What a very long way of saying, "right winger".

But if everyone was left wing, then what is there to argue about like what you want to do here:

Over years of development i've come to this website for a lotta' things, a way to "sharpen" my brain, a way to develop my argumentation
?

You advocate a contradiction.

You don't see people debate things like, "Should burning living babies be legal?" because everyone agrees the answer to that is no.

You see people debate things like, "Should Trump be POTUS?" because many people say yes and many people say no.
#29
WyIted
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@TheUnderdog
Burning living babies being legal is an easy argument to make. Pinker makes very good arguments for infanticide and he does so well that any prochoice advocate unless they are really familiar with pro life arguments will struggle to debate a person who is advocating for infanticide based on Pinkers arguments
#30
TheUnderdog
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@WyIted
Maybe that was a bad example.  My bad (I got to see his arguments for it before I think they are good ones or not).

But if there is an issue where everyone agrees, then it doesn't get debated.