Classified Documents and "Willful Retention"

Author: ADreamOfLiberty

Posts

Total: 25
Topic's author
#1
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
Viva Frei  saying exactly what I've been saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESBq98-MUoM

Almost like it's "common sense" or in other words "basic stuff".

The fact is that Biden has met all the elements of the crime they're charging Donald Trump with (according to special prosecutor Hur).

Furthermore there was the destruction of evidence by an associate of Biden's after the investigation began, which according to some people is obstruction of justice.

They simply "decline to prosecute" and choose to construe Biden's motives as pure despite the exact same (alleged) behavior and the exact same elements of the crime.

This is what a "two tiered justice system" is. It is not and cannot be "the rule of law" for a rule with exceptions is no rule at all.

#2
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,492
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
All I can say is that they are so lucky for the type of right-wing that exists in America. The right in America will use this as an opportunity to fix the system but had this been a different class of right wingers or even had this sort of banana republic happenings occurred to the left, they would no doubt see it as an excuse to do the same thing back 10 fold. Thank God for the libertarian influence on Republicans.  
#3
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
The fact is that Biden has met all the elements of the crime they're charging Donald Trump with 
That’s a lie. You’re a liar.

Trump lied to the FBI. He tried to hide the documents from the government. He refused to give them back.

Topic's author
#4
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
The fact is that Biden has met all the elements of the crime they're charging Donald Trump with 
That’s a lie. You’re a liar.
Biden (allegedly) willfully retained classified documents.

That's what the law says. It doesn't say anything about needing to lie to the FBI or what not.

(Of course they're both authorized because the authority to classify and declassify flows from the oval office, but we're pretending that's not the case because: GET TRUMP)
#5
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,641
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

It's time to replace politicians with AI congresspersons.
#6
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
Artificial scoundrels?
#7
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,641
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Greyparrot

Artificial scoundrels?
No, scoundrels are human.
#8
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@FLRW
Protect your scoundrels Mencken.
Topic's author
#9
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@FLRW
It's time to replace politicians with AI congresspersons.
I was thinking parrots trained to say "No" and "Repeal it now"
#10
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
Of course they're both authorized because the authority to classify and declassify flows from the oval office, but we're pretending that's not the case because: GET TRUMP)
Right, and they can declassify documents telepathically by just thinking about it. Makes perfect sense …to a MAGA MORON 

Topic's author
#11
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
Right, and they can declassify documents telepathically by just thinking about it. Makes perfect sense …to a MAGA MORON 
So you agree Biden should be charged. *shrug*


Topic's author
#12
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2

Biden denies sharing classified information with his ghostwriter and denied that special counsel Hur said he did.

Based on the precedent of EJC v Trump he just defamed Hur and the ghostwriter. That CNN analyst (Daniel) was incorrect that Biden is entitled to say he didn't do it, that right is now obsolete. That will be $80 million please Mr. Former Vice President Biden.
#13
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
He also said the special counsel lied about them all not being in lockable file cabinets. We are up to 160 million now. 
#14
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,674
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
It's time to replace politicians with AI congresspersons.
Currently, Artificial Intelligence is not advanced enough to replace politicians, and realistically, AI technology will probably never be capable of actually simulating congresspersons, practically speaking, there are limits to what AI can accomplish.

Now, when they develop Artificial Stupidity, then it's a done deal.
#15
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 26,051
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Sidewalker
there are limits to what AI can accomplish.

Any AI is an upgrade to Trump or Biden.

#16
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
So you agree Biden should be charged. *shrug*
No, because he didn’t try to hide them or lie that he didn’t have any.

Topic's author
#17
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
So you agree Biden should be charged. *shrug*
No, because he didn’t try to hide them or lie that he didn’t have any.
Lie is such a strong word. Poor old Biden just forgot how many he had and where they were.

The law doesn't say "lie". It says "willfully retain"

#18
IwantRooseveltagain
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,597
3
3
6
IwantRooseveltagain's avatar
IwantRooseveltagain
3
3
6
The law doesn't say "lie". It says "willfully retain"
It’s against the law to lie to the FBI. Trump lied. The FBI said we want the documents you have.
Trump knew he had documents, told his lawyers to lie to the FBI, told his employees to hide the documents,
told his lawyers to destroy documents, and refused to give up the documents so the FBI raided his home and took the documents.
That isn’t anything like what happened with the documents Biden had.
Topic's author
#19
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
The law doesn't say "lie". It says "willfully retain"


(e)
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it; or


Biden meets the elements of the crime, according to special counsel Hur.

29 days later

Topic's author
#20
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@Double_R
Alan Dershowitz cutting through the bullshit again, specifically by stating the obvious: that high officials of the executive branch have been taking home documents since there were classified documents and if anyone can do it POTUS can. As authorized persons these laws do not apply to them.


The timestamp is for the benefit of people like Double_R who can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that claims of obstruction can't propagate backwards through time to make Trump guilty of the so called underlying crime of willfully retaining and sharing classified documents.


#21
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
It looks to me as though Hur is acknowledging the bias that a DC jury would have with this case, therefor it isn’t worth it to prosecute. Hur is acknowledging the problem rather than a part of the problem, in other words.

Topic's author
#22
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@cristo71
It wouldn't have to be in DC. It could be where the documents were, or where they were moved from, or wherever the ghostwriter received them.

In a non-political case any prosecutor who claims the elements of the crime were met would at least try. It doesn't cost them anything personally and might work.

It is extremely unusual to claim the elements of the crime are present but no charges will be brought because of jury nullification. Even if they believe that they would claim some other excuse. This is basically just admitting to corruption, which maybe was the real message he was trying to send: They're threatening me.
#23
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
It doesn’t have to be in DC, but that is where it would be. Delaware? Same problem. If Biden were to be indicted and then acquitted, he would come out smelling like a rose essentially. Hur has managed to make Biden look pathetic without going to all the trouble.
Topic's author
#24
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,181
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@cristo71
It doesn’t have to be in DC, but that is where it would be. Delaware?
McLean, Virginia

Anywhere has got better chances than DC. Even the 'republicans' there are TDS. 100% swamp monsters.


If Biden were to be indicted and then acquitted, he would come out smelling like a rose essentially.
That's true of all these cases including the ones against Trump, but they're doing it anyway because they want to capture low-information voters with "91 indictments" (even though it's not really working).

You're talking about it as if it was pure political maneuver, but I guess I was just pointing out why it must be pure political maneuver because "rule of law" doesn't look like "Yea he did it, but I'm not even gona try to charge him."
#25
cristo71
cristo71's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,563
3
2
3
cristo71's avatar
cristo71
3
2
3
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
You're talking about it as if it was pure political maneuver, but I guess I was just pointing out why it must be pure political maneuver because "rule of law" doesn't look like "Yea he did it, but I'm not even gona try to charge him."
I can see how it might look that way, but that isn’t my intent. If it were purely a political maneuver, he wouldn’t be pissing off BOTH sides. His job is to weigh objectively the chances of getting a conviction, which he has.