Pascal's wager does not favor religious people

Author: Best.Korea

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#1
Best.Korea
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There are these options:

1. There is God who punishes atheists, but not christians

2. There is God who punishes christians, but not atheists

3. There is God who punishes both christians and atheists

4. There is God who doesnt punish christians and doesnt punish atheists

5. There is no God

Assuming unknown probability of each option, these being the only options, we see that 4 out of 5 options are either beneficial either neutral to atheists, same as for Christians.

The main point of debate is which options are more likely, but assuming unknown probability, we see that there is no reason to believe atheists will have it worse, not even by number of options.
#2
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@Best.Korea
Pascal was working on the assumption that GOD was stupid rather than sensible.

I think that a lot of theists work on the same assumption.



#3
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@Best.Korea
Pascal's wager

Pascal must have been of the belief that "god" couldn't tell when someone was faking it.
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#4
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@zedvictor4
Pascal was working on the assumption that GOD was stupid rather than sensible.
I think that a lot of theists work on the same assumption.
The main mistake of theists is assuming how God thinks and what God would do.
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#5
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@Stephen
Pascal must have been of the belief that "god" couldn't tell when someone was faking it.
I figured that if fear of punishment is the only reason for obedience, then its not really honest and loving serving to God.

"I only serve you so I dont get tortured by you" doesnt sound like a loving relationship at all.
#6
Stephen
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@Best.Korea
Pascal must have been of the belief that "god" couldn't tell when someone was faking it.
I figured that if fear of punishment is the only reason for obedience, then its not really honest and loving serving to God.

"I only serve you so I dont get tortured by you" doesnt sound like a loving relationship at all.


Looking at it from the angle  of obedience BK you be right. 
But it appears that one had to FEAR god too.

When the angle of "god" stops Abraham sacrificing his son Issac he is told this:

Genesis 22: 12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
So we see that the whole  story was a horrible test  about obedience AND fear.  <<<<THIS of course raises some serious questions does it not?

Such as : If,  as the bible says on multiple occasions, that God knows our "EVERY" thought and our hearts, why ever was there any need for such a torturous, sadistic and cruel test?
Another would be; who exactly was conducting this test? was it god, or his representative angel?

Lets hope the Reverend Tradesecret can come along and explain that one for you...... but don't hold your breath, BK, he's far too dumb to even have thought about that questions.

#7
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@Stephen


Stephen.

YOUR QUOTE: "But it appears that one had to FEAR god too."

YES, all Christians are to FEAR GOD as the scriptures so state below: 

1. "The fear of the Lord leads to life, and whoever has it rests satisfied; he will not be visited by harm." (Proverbs 19:23)

2. "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28)

3. "The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that one may turn away from the snares of death." (Proverbs 14:27)

4. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction." (Proverbs 1:7)


Unfortunately, I have a few neighbors that had to go to a psychiatrist for help because they read the above passages, and they fear Jesus as God so bad in being a serial killer of His creation, that it is hard for them to have any peace of mind because everyday they do not know if they did the right thing in the eyes of our God that is watching them! (Hebrews 4:13)

Some of these Christians that I know, told their children as well to fear Jesus as God, and therefore they can't sleep at night in case they didn't follow ALL of Jesus' teachings where they may have sinned since these kids did not read the entire Bible to be sure they didn't step over the line!  "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)

What can I day, some Christians are "candy asses" because they fear Jesus so much!

.




#8
Deb-8-a-bull
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Do you mean Christian god as patanined to  
Christian group # 283
Or
Christian group # 8
I doubt it would be
Christian group #5,726
Maybe its 
CG # 93 
Orrrrrrr , it could be 
Christian god from Christian group # 11, 742 

All these " christian " groups have a Christian god 
But.
But. 
They differ. 
 
Christian god from Christian group # 410
Aint nothing like 
CG from CG# 3,090

And In Christian group # 7, 914
Has Jesus and god.  
We're as 
CG # 110 is a trinity. 

Sooooo.
There is a " christian god " but there is also a " christian god " 
NO.  THATS NOT RIGHT. 
Or is it ? 





I guess What i am trying to say is.  
They are exactly the same but just diffrent.
Yar mean. 

I aint taking the wager. 

What we need to do is.
Practice Fast paced joining religious groups. 
So if ya have like only 5 mins to live you want to join as many religious groups as possible in 1 maybe 2 minutes max 

Not meaning to boast butttttttt. 
I can join hundreds of religious groups in mere seconds. 
Watch. 
' holds breath ' 

And,,,,,,,,
▪°•¤○°¤○▪  
' catches breath ' 

See.? 
Did ya see that? 

Thank you. 
Thanks.  




#9
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@Best.Korea
Exactly.

 
#10
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Unfortunately, I have a few neighbors that had to go to a psychiatrist for help because they read the above passages, and they fear Jesus as God so bad in being a serial killer of His creation, that it is hard for them to have any peace of mind because everyday they do not know if they did the right thing in the eyes of our God that is watching them! (Hebrews 4:13)

Some of these Christians that I know, told their children as well to fear Jesus as God, and therefore they can't sleep at night in case they didn't follow ALL of Jesus' teachings where they may have sinned since these kids did not read the entire Bible to be sure they didn't step over the line!  "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)


But he loves us.🤔
#11
Deb-8-a-bull
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Oh crap . 
I forgot to go back to being a atheist after i was being a Christian just before. 
So
Thats. 
1 ,2.
Thats over half a day today that i was a Christian. 
Crazy right ? 

Im so Lucky the wind didn't change hey.  
Imagine being stuck as christian. 
But as ive mentioned before, ' I TOO LIKE TO LIVE LIFE DANGEROUSLY ' 

So without a second to spare. 
Poof. 
Anddddddddddd , now i am not a Christian any more. 
And I think I'll spend the rest of the day out as a, ( anti theist. ) 
' shows license '  Its fucken locked in.

YA probably now th8nking. 
will this " coming and going in and from diff religions travel thing i do, negatively or positively effect my life when i die ?

Thats a big NEGATIVE.  

Actuallyyyyyyyyyy, deb  , im gonna stop you there. 
WTF 
Why ?

 you can't be really  100% on that. 
Thats a ( what happens after you die thing ) 

Yeah but. 
Well. 
But. 
Fuck Ya'll.  

' holds up middle finger ' 
 Fucken wankers. 

Actually before i go back to being a atheist, 
Im gonna now be a Catholic for 20 to 25 mins.
Ya ready for this,  watch close now. 

And
powwwwwwwwwwwww. 

Did ya see that? 
I told you i can do it. 

Again. 
Thank you. 
Fanks. 

Ask me for proof that i am currently a Christian.  
' shows a card of sorts ' 

Or perhaps you want  Proof that i now currently   belive in god . 
No problemo
Picks belly, 
And Shows ' belly button fluff ' 

Ps.
People could probably even not even belive in god and be a christian. 
Ya reckon? 
Well that might be a little far fetched. 




You guys might wanna make it a tad more diff to become one of you. 
Im just saying. 
I can go in and out of being Christian easy as. 
Watch.
In 
And out , 
Back in again,  
And now out. 

See. .
I can do it with such ease now. 

So yeah , Look into guys. 



 
#12
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Its hard implementing , FEAR GOD.  
Because like , im not really that scared about it all. 


I can however, FEAR REAL SHIT. 
REAL SHIT LIKE UMMMM. 
 shit IDK 
Somthing like a bear maybe.
Or even 40 Bears.   
Yeah 40 bears.
Id  fear 40 BEARS. 
40 bears , is like a real life thing.  

gods aint of a real life substance.  
Well would i fear 40 gods then . 
Nope. 
Same shit.

Ps.  
Anal fucking .   Bum bums 

The above ps Subliminal text is for Zed eyes only. 


#13
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Pascals wager assumes that the OMNIBENEVOLENT GOD is going to torture atheists for all eternity, while givng theists an eternal paradise. 

#14
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@Best.Korea
we see that 4 out of 5 options are either beneficial either neutral to atheists, same as for Christians.
Don't forget the "which God?" problem; Even if there's is a god, praying to the wrong one will leave you no better than an atheist. That brings in another few thousand options to be wrong anyway.
#15
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@Double_R
Don't forget the "which God?" problem; Even if there's is a god, praying to the wrong one will leave you no better than an atheist. 

Do Christians themselves even consider that they may have been praying to the "wrong god" for over 2000 years? Considering that the bible clearly explains that the earth was divided between the gods with each to rule over his/her  "portion" and where by they  took it in turns to be ruler over the other gods at the end of the "age"?


Stephen wrote: The "gods" in their first attempt at controlling their creation had already divided the Earth into sections of twelve regions/houses where a "god" ruled over a region and one "god" became "god" of the gods. This too is alluded to in the Old Testament.  You may well ask at this point, well who chose the "god of gods"? Simply answer is, they took it in turns. When the celestial clock/ Zodiac crossed over from one house to another this was the "signs in the sky" for  the "god" of the incoming house to rule.  You may well understand by now that this was the reason the people were divided into 12 tribes/ houses. And it was eventually at these crossing over points that the wars of "gods and men" began. 
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@Stephen
Do Christians themselves even consider that they may have been praying to the "wrong god" for over 2000 years? 
In my experience most don't. In their minds it's their God or atheism, which really speaks to why they believe in the first place. If it were really that simple of a dichotomy it would be much more reasonable. For me, even as a child I was always astonished at how everyone believed in a different God and yet everyone believed they were the ones who got it right. 
#17
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@Stephen
Do Christians themselves even consider that they may have been praying to the "wrong god" for over 2000 years? Considering that the bible clearly explains that the earth was divided between the gods with each to rule over his/her  "portion" and where by they  took it in turns to be ruler over the other gods at the end of the "age"?
Stephen, I read some of your posts that you linked.  The Sumerian culture is very interesting.

Have you read the books by Zecharia Sitchin?  I'm curious to know what you think of his books.
#18
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@DavidAZZ
Have you read the books by Zecharia Sitchin?  I'm curious to know what you think of his books.

 I have. 

His books are extremely interesting and fall in line with many of my own opinions, ideas, theories and thoughts built up over the years. I happen to be re-reading some of his early material at the moment: When Time Began & End Of Days. 
But like anything, one either chooses to believe or doesn't. 
#19
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@Stephen
His books are extremely interesting and fall in line with many of my own opinions, ideas, theories and thoughts built up over the years. I happen to be re-reading some of his early material at the moment: When Time Began & End Of Days. 
But like anything, one either chooses to believe or doesn't. 
I have only browsed one of his books years ago.  I don't remember which one it was but he claimed it was from some Sumerian tablets that he found and translated about the beginnings of the Earth humans.  Started off with some sort of competition on another planet, the main guy lost and jumped into his space ship and flew away and eventually found Earth. 

 Are there some of his books you recommend for a beginner of his writings?
#20
Stephen
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@DavidAZZ
Are there some of his books you recommend for a beginner of his writings?

Well that would be his first issue on the subject wouldn't it , surely?

But a starter that I would recommend would be Genius Of The Few and perhaps The shining Ones:  Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien.

Still, lets not derail this thread concerning Pascal and his pointless Wager.
#21
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@Stephen
Still, lets not derail this thread concerning Pascal and his pointless Wager.
Sorry! LOL

Thanks for the info. 

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#22
Best.Korea
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Jesus promised in revelation to come back again and kill the entire planet except the 144,000 virgin christian men.

So really, many of those hoping that Jesus returns in their lifetime wont be happy if he does.
#23
Stephen
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@Benjamin
Pascals wager assumes that the OMNIBENEVOLENT GOD is going to torture atheists for all eternity, while givng theists an eternal paradise. 

Pascal also seems to have forgotten that his  god is omni everything and can tell our thoughts and would know we were faking it.. 
#24
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@Best.Korea

See you at the Lux tonight !
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@FLRW
See you!
#26
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The first thing, i think  that should be mentioned about. ( Pascals Wager ) is.,
(;Pascal wage )  would be a good name for a chocolate bar.  

Can i please  have.    
One Mars bar 
3. Milky ways . 
1 . Crunchy .
And a Pascal wager please. 



Imagine playing your "Pas Wag " "card"  
And like,,,,,  Fucking nailing it. 

Thats picking the one true correct religious group.  
On like a mere un edjuamacataled guess.  

Or even , using  A "lucky  guess "  and ACTUALLY Picking the correct one. 

Or

Picking one out of a hat


Imagine getting a show of hands from theists that are currently in the correct religious group.
( 100% ya reckon ) 

99% of allllllllll theists are currently  in the correct religious group.  

awsome stat that hey. ? 


These religious nuts are using somethong greatter then this (pascal wager) thing.  
T

Ok Im just gonna say it. 

ALL  THEIEST ARE GGGGGGGGGGGGGREAT RELIGIOUS GROUP PICKERS. 
So
Why wager, when we can have the theists show us our correct groups. 

SO WE ASK OF UMMMM,

THEISTS. 
Hey THEISTS 
CAN YOU HELP ME AND THE OTHER ATHEIST , ON WHAT RELIGIOUS GROUP WE ARE FROM. 


PLEASE GUYS. 

OR 

PLEASE  
TEACH US, 
TEACH US  HALF WITTED ATHEISTS ON PICKING THE CORRECT RELIGIOUS GROUP.
AS WE ARE BUT POOR PICKERS OF RELIGIONS INTO RELIGIOUS GROUPS. 

If there was only like 100 religious groups .
Id still feel a tad bit uncomfortable with picking , and knowing that  religious group  # 36 is in fact the real correct religious group. 

Dont ask me why.  
Im not that smart i guess.   
I highly doubt i could successfully pick that one correct ,
true religious group.  

Please Feel free to make fun of the atheists and there poor poor correct  religious group picking skills. 

Say to us like.

The atheists are that daft that . 
If there was only 15 religious group in the world. 
They'd still have trouble picking the CORRECT ONE. 

LIKE.
REALLY GIVE IT TO US GUYS. 


Wankers. 
#27
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Like.

We would always pick the right group even if it was the wrong group.

Or vice versa, depending upon whose point of view one is seeking guidance from.

It's a sort of win win, lose lose, win lose or lose win situation.

A bit like shoving a gun up ones arse and playing Russian roulette.
#28
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@zedvictor4
A bit like shoving a gun up ones arse and playing Russian roulette.

Well if you are playing on your own...... you'd lose, I reckon Vic lad.
#29
Deb-8-a-bull
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@zedvictor4
Zed  21 : 17 . We would always pick the right group even if it was the wrong group. 

That sentence pretty much wraps everything up.   
Im happy with that zed. 
Its beautiful. 


Andddd,
Moving on.

Next. 

I still cant fathom one "starting"  Beliving in god 
Having something to do with 
Joining a religious group. 








#30
Stephen
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I still cant fathom one "starting"  Beliving in god 
Having something to do with 
Joining a religious group. 

One doesn't just start believing Deb.

Tradesecret wrote: Idid not choose my religion. God chose me #48

So You haven't been chosen , I take it Deb?