The precedent for banning, "hate speech"

Author: TheUnderdog

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TheUnderdog
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Should horrible views get free speech?  You would need a definition for what counts as a horrible view (and not a definition by examples).

Usually, "hate speech" is what people want to ban.

The definition of "hate speech" is the following: "abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or SIMILAR GROUNDS:"

If someone says, "Blacks should get killed", that would be deemed hate speech.

If someone said, "Death to poor people" (I'm not saying they are the same thing, but the left supports both groups because they are stereotypically oppressed, and many people would argue a poor (white or else) homeless guy deserves the same right to live as a middle class (white or else) person), that would be viewed as hate speech.

If someone said, "Death to murderers", whether you agreed or not, most people support someone's right to say it (because the murderer harmed someone else to a significant degree; the generic black or poor person did not).

So if the standard is, "If you advocate the death penalty for any harmless or minimally harming group (the poor homeless guy on welfare harms the taxpayer nominally with welfare consumption); then that's hate speech that we would ban you from saying."

If someone said, "I want to cut government spending and if it means poor homeless children of color starve to death, so be it.  I'm a fiscal conservative and I prefer my taxes low with dead stranger kids to higher taxes and living stranger kids", if you were logically consistent, you may call advocating for fiscal conservatism hate speech.

If our government decides to censor fiscal conservatism, how would America be any ideologically different from communist China? Death and suffering of the poor are always the cost of economic freedom / low taxes/ low spending / fiscal conservatism / social freedom as well.

Advocating the censorship of those advocating human sacrifice in the name of freedom (even if it's a slight cost of freedom to save a huge number of lives) is communism.

We had that during COVID lockdowns (people were advocating censoring those who wanted a little human sacrifice in exchange for a lot of freedom), and these people are communists. I can respect (and despise) an honest communist; I cannot respect a wishy-washy communist who doesn't realize they are a communist that claims to only want to censor some things they would deem to be hate speech while not realizing the precedent they have set.

Me; I'm a free speech absolutist.  You should be allowed to advocate literally any political position you want, whether it's as far right as the KKK or as left-wing as calling for the deaths of all conservatives, even if they are anti Trump republicans (but still agree with Trump on all the policies they deem make Trump a bigot). People should see Liz Cheney the same way as they see Ben Shapiro; they are both anti Trump republicans.
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@TheUnderdog
  1. Cohen v. California (1971): Wearing a jacket that said "fuck the draft" did not constitute fighting words since there had been no "personally abusive epithets."
  2. Gooding v. Wilson (1972): The Court held that offensive and insulting language, even when directed at specific individuals, is not fighting words. Examples include "White son of a bitch, I'll kill you."
  3. Rosenfeld v. New Jersey (1972): The use of "mother fucking" was found not to be fighting words.
  4. Lewis v. City of New Orleans (1972): Phrases like "god damn mother fucking police" were considered constitutional.
  5. Brown v. Oklahoma (1972): The use of "mother fucking fascist" and "black mother fucking pig" was found constitutional because the speech may have been anticipated by the audience.

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@Greyparrot
Yeah; free speech is based.

Freedom is dangerous, but I prefer it to the alternative.
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There is always slippery slope in everything.

If harmful speech is banned, a lot of speech would be banned.

If there was complete free speech, then adult would be allowed to say dirty things to minor.
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@TheUnderdog
 I'm a free speech absolutist
So do you think that adult can make dirty comments about a minor, even if that minor can hear it?

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I don't have an issue with parents swearing to kids.

If I had a kid, I would tell my kid that they can't swear in front of strangers because strangers don't like it (or their friends until they are 13), but they can swear to me all they want.

I do think though that while someone who is attracted to kids can say sexual things about that kid to that kid, if it's acted on, it's child rape.  If the kid gives the pedophile the finger, that's also free speech.  If the kid tells their parents that the pedophile was making them uncomfortable, and the parents get outraged at the pedophile over the pedo making their kid uncomfortable, that's also free speech.

I've gotten in trouble by a kid's parents for calling the kid a brat and for publicly stating that I couldn't tell if the kid was a boy or a girl.

Parents are very protective of their kids.

But if it's ok for an 8 year old to have sex, then it's ok for an 8 year old to drink recreational alcohol.  I think alcohol messes with your brain less.  The converse isn't necessarily true.
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@TheUnderdog
I do think though that while someone who is attracted to kids can say sexual things about that kid to that kid
Most people would disagree with you and beat up an adult who says nasty things to minor, so really, most people dont support free speech.
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then it's ok for an 8 year old to drink recreational alcohol
I mean, does alcohol have some different effect on minors than it does on adults?
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@Best.Korea
Well, legally speaking, you can tell some kid that you a pedophile, and the feds will only punish you if you have child porn or do child abuse.  Your house probably will get searched, stuff will get vandalized, but it's cops doing their job and no major party will criticize the cops over it.  Although if the feds are against child porn because it exploits children, but are fine with chocolate (which was made using child slavery), I think it's hypocritical.

I mean, does alcohol have some different effect on minors than it does on adults?

I think the alcohol/weed/tobacco/vape age should be set to the same age as the age of consent; 16 unconditionally.
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@TheUnderdog
Well, legally speaking
Technically speaking, people tend to beat up those who say nasty things about kids.
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@TheUnderdog
What if certain speech that is branded as hate speech, is nonetheless accurate in what it says.
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@zedvictor4
All speech is hate speech if you ask the right person.