Biden's "great economy" in perspective

Author: Swagnarok

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As of September 2023, the reported median home price in the US was $412,000.00. In the state with the least expensive housing, that number was $229,000,00. This is according to Forbes.


But to be conservative, let's say you're a prospective homeowner in his/her early to mid 30s who buys a $200,000.00 house on a 30-year mortgage. If you were to sign a contract two days ago, on December 21, 2023, you would be paying roughly 6.67 percent interest. Had you been unlucky enough to sign the contract in September, October, or November of this year, that number would be in excess of 7 percent.


For context, when Biden first took office that was a meager 2.77 percent, and the absolute highest it ever got under Trump was 4.94 percent. But anyway, 6.67 percent. The cheapest it's been in the last 6 months, so you buy.
What does 6.67 percent interest mean? It means that, just to keep the debt from growing, you'll need to have $13,340 that you can afford to part with, per year. Once you've coughed this much up, as opposed to spending it on, I don't know, healthcare for your children and other things that are definitely not important, the bank will expect you to make an additional payment. You know, to actually repay the mortgage itself. Which would be around $6,660 a year.

In other words, unless you're in a financial situation where you can part with $20,000 every single year, it is impossible to afford what's generally considered an affordable home in this economy.
Now, you might say, "Well they wouldn't be paying rent so it's fine". Let's examine a few more statistics for some added context. As of October the median American's savings account balance was $1,200.


In August the average national rent price was $1,372, or $16,464 a year.


Of course, this average includes more expensive states, where a decent and sizable home wouldn't sell for $200K. Your average Alabaman isn't paying that much rent anyway. But even if we were to assume that your average Alabaman renter is, and we add that $1,200 of extra cash they have lying around, they would fall $2,340 short. They haven't a dime left to spend without seriously tightening their belt elsewhere; if they can't muster this, then homeownership will remain of their reach.

I'll reiterate: at 4.94 percent interest, what you'd have to pay yearly is $16,546 or so. This is a roughly $3,500 dollar difference, and that's the worst it ever was under Trump. The worst. Whereas under Biden, the current rate is at a 6-month low.

Best.Korea
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So your perspective is limited to just one thing? 

Where you compare rent prices to buying a house?

Hey, I can have one perspective too.

Biden unemployment rate: 3 %

Trump unemployment rate: 16 %

How do you buy a house if you dont have a job and if you dont have money?

Yeah, a bit awkward.
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Even voters are rejecting Bidenomics
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@Best.Korea
So your perspective is limited to just one thing? 
No, but this is a pretty huge one. Homeownership is, in America, the traditional signifier of "having achieved middle class". That homeownership is now out of reach for most Americans around the age of 35-40 is a sure sign that the middle class is dying.

Biden unemployment rate: 3 %; Trump unemployment rate: 16 %
Unemployment did temporarily skyrocket to 14.7% during April 2020, which was the height of Covid (a global pandemic) and its lockdowns (a global economic downturn). By the time Trump left office 9 months later, that'd been slashed more than in half, down to 6.3%, which is by far the fastest economic recovery in American history as measured by unemployment.
Which is to say Biden merely inherited that downward trend and has succeeded in not screwing it up (thus far, at least).
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@Swagnarok
he fastest economic recovery in American history as measured by unemployment
Yes, recovery from a situation Trump put us in.

Also, shrinking GDP during Trump.

Do you know who inherited good economy and screwed it up? Trump.

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@Swagnarok
Mortgages under Ronald Reagan were as high as 18% and you idiots think he was the greatest President ever. He also had unemployment over 10% and he tripled the National Debt. He is the only 2 term President not to raise the federal minimum wage. He also raised gasoline taxes.
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@Best.Korea
Trump "screwed up" the economy by happening to be President when a once-in-a-hundred-years global frigging pandemic set in?

Sounds more to me like the US government of that time, whose executive head was Trump, took what had the potential to be worse than the 2008 Great Recession and made it into a relatively moderate downturn. In this regard they evidently succeeded, and both consumer inflation and mortgage interest rates stayed reasonably low until after Biden took office.
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@Swagnarok
By the time Trump left office 9 months later, that'd been slashed more than in half, down to 6.3%, which is by far the fastest economic recovery in American history as measured by unemployment.
Thanks to massive government deficit spending and intervention. So the Democrat system of big government works, right?

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@Swagnarok
Trump "screwed up" the economy by happening to be President when a once-in-a-hundred-years global frigging pandemic set in?
Trumps botched response to the pandemic and poor leadership is what killed the economy and over 1 million Americans.

Obama had 2 pandemics but they were handled competently so there was very little damage done.


inflation and mortgage interest rates stayed reasonably low until after Biden took office.
Inflation was low because unemployment was high and interest rates were low because the economy was in recession.

Do you remember how high lumber prices were under Trump thanks to the USMCA or how farmers were on welfare thanks to Trump’s trade war.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Mortgages under Ronald Reagan were as high as 18% and you idiots think he was the greatest President ever
Check the graph again. Interest rates had been on an upward climb for the past decade before Reagan took office. There was a spike to 18 percent early in his Presidency, but this could be seen as a continuation of the economic crisis he inherited.
What's important is that by the end of his presidency, interest rates were 4 points lower than when he began his presidency, instead of being higher like what'd happened under Ford, Carter, and possibly Nixon. Reagan was the president whose leadership commenced the permanent downward spiral of mortgage interest rates, which went mostly uninterrupted for the next 30+ years.
If you want to argue that low mortgage interest rates are a bad thing, then by all means. Blame Reagan. Otherwise...
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@Swagnarok
Check the graph again. Interest rates had been on an upward climb for the past decade before Reagan took office. There was a spike to 18 percent early in his Presidency, but this could be seen as a continuation of the economic crisis he inherited.
Bullshit, rates were up because inflation was up. The fed was fighting inflation caused by Reagan’s massive tax cuts.

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@Swagnarok
Reagan was the president whose leadership commenced the permanent downward spiral of mortgage interest rates, which went mostly uninterrupted for the next 30+ years.
Mortgage rates were uncommonly low from 2008 through 2020 thanks to the two massive economic collapses caused by Bush and Trump.

Bush’s caused by 9/11 then the housing bubble and deregulation of Wall Street 

Trump’s caused by the botched response to Covid.

Clinton and Obama took steps to have strong economic rebounds.

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@Swagnarok
Reagan killed the middle class by cutting taxes for the wealthy, causing college tuition to rise, deregulating the economy so manufacturing jobs went overseas.
Raising employment taxes so the Social Security and Medicare is funded mainly by the middle class
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Trumps botched response to the pandemic and poor leadership is what killed the economy and over 1 million Americans.
Tell that to the slew of Western countries with similar outcomes, controlling for preexisting factors like the less healthy lifestyles Americans tend to live. Or did Trump's "poor leadership" skills magically rub off on every other Western head of state?

Obama had 2 pandemics but they were handled competently so there was very little damage done.
LMAO are you seriously comparing the swine flu or whatnot to Covid?
There were viral outbreaks across the world from 2009 to 2017, but nothing that combined the relative lethality and sheer ease of transmissibility of Covid. Ebola, for example, was deadly but not all that hard to contain even for dysfunctional African governments.

Inflation was low because unemployment was high and interest rates were low because the economy was in recession.
Unemployment was 6.3% by the end of January 2021, a month Trump was president for most of. 6.3% is high compared to right before Covid, but also lower than unemployment during any month in 2013, a year we don't tend to remember as being hellish. As for the technical definition of a recession, which is "a period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced, generally identified by a fall in GDP in two successive quarters", GDP saw growth in Q3 and Q4 of 2020, along with Q1 of 2021, meaning it wasn't in recession at the time when Trump left office.


Meanwhile, in that same month (January 2021), mortgage interest rates were around 2.77 percent. Which, again, was a lot lower than it is today.

Likewise, in January of '21 the monthly 12-month inflation rate was 1.4%. Which is low compared to what it's been in every month since.
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@Swagnarok
Trump also robbed millions from healthcare, and Biden fixed economy during world war. I think a world war is worse than covid.
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Bullshit, rates were up because inflation was up. The fed was fighting inflation caused by Reagan’s massive tax cuts.
Rates were rising before Reagan took office and began a permanent downward trend around May of 1982. By late October of 1982, rates were below what they were when Reagan took office. This "inflation caused by Reagan's massive tax cuts", if real in the slightest, didn't hurt mortgage rates for very long.

Mortgage rates were uncommonly low from 2008 through 2020 thanks to the two massive economic collapses caused by Bush and Trump.
Mortgage rates also fell throughout the 90s. And they were also slightly lower when Obama left office than when Obama took office. I suppose that every U.S. President from Reagan until Biden caused "massive economic collapses"?

Bush’s caused by 9/11
You're unironically claiming that Bush caused 9/11?

then the housing bubble and deregulation of Wall Street
The Great Recession was started by the collapse of the housing market, which began with the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007. To quote a website administered by the Federal Reserve:
"The subprime mortgage crisis of 2007–10 stemmed from an earlier expansion of mortgage credit, including to borrowers who previously would have had difficulty getting mortgages, which both contributed to and was facilitated by rapidly rising home prices."


The American Enterprise Institute blames the Clinton Administration, which "exploit(ed) a minor provision in a 1977 housing bill, the Community Reinvestment Act, that simply required banks to meet local credit needs. Bank regulators began to pressure banks to make subprime loans. Guidelines became mandates as each bank was assigned a letter grade on CRA loans. Banks could not even open ATMs or branches, much less acquire another bank, without a passing grade—and getting a passing grade was no longer about meeting local credit needs...Effective in January 1993, the 1992 housing bill required Fannie and Freddie to make 30% of their mortgage purchases affordable-housing loans. The quota was raised to 40% in 1996, 42% in 1997, and in 2000 the Department of Housing and Urban Development ordered the quota raised to 50%. The Bush administration continued to raise the affordable-housing goals. Freddie and Fannie dutifully met those goals each and every year until the subprime crisis erupted. By 2008, when both government-sponsored enterprises collapsed, the quota had reached 56%."


The most you can say about Bush is that he didn't put a stop to this. Which I guess is a fair criticism, but it's far more politically costly to kill an entrenched, popular program than to prevent a new one from being authorized. Same reason Republicans don't dare touch Social Security and whatnot.
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@Best.Korea
Trump also robbed millions from healthcare, and Biden fixed economy during world war. I think a world war is worse than covid.
There is no "world war". A number of miscellaneous wars happening at once does not a world war make.
Rather, we cannot fathom the horrors that WW3 would unleash upon humanity. If it truly came to that, Hitler would look like Mother Teresa compared to Putin, Biden, and Xi.
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@Swagnarok
Trump was forced to sign trillions of dollars of aid to Americans because his free market idea of economy failed.
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@Swagnarok
Do you know how many countries are involved in Ukraine?
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@Swagnarok
Did you know that during Trump, USA had 3rd highest in the world death rate from covid?
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@Best.Korea
Did you know that during Trump, USA had 3rd highest in the world death rate from covid?
I was paying attention to Covid death rates during the height of the pandemic. I don't recall everything that I found back then, but it seemed America's situation wasn't exceptionally bad at the time. I think our standing got a little worse sometime after Biden took office, but again, I don't have a source for that.

Here are some recent figures.
As of May 2023, the US had 1,161,164 recorded Covid deaths. The UK had 223,396. A lot smaller number, right? Yes, but we have 5x the population of the UK. 5 x 223,396 is 1,116,980. Meaning we have proportionately more deaths per capita than the UK, but just slightly so. The UK, suffice to say, is a pretty liberal country and their most conservative mainstream politican is probably equivalent to the average Democrat in the US.
And again, the reason for the somewhat higher American death rate boils down to factors like the notoriously unhealthy American lifestyle along with vaccine hesitancy. Which, despite what media propaganda will tell you, is not actually a partisan issue and many people of color, such as Blacks who vote Democrat, were also skeptical of the vaccine.


Do you know how many countries are involved in Ukraine?
How many are sending money and weapons? A lot. How many countries are actually fighting there? Two.

Trump was forced to sign trillions of dollars of aid to Americans because his free market idea of economy failed.
You mean as a response to anti-free market lockdowns which harmed the economy by keeping people from going to work? No sh!t Sherlock. What other kind of impact could that have on the economy?
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@Swagnarok
Tell that to the slew of Western countries with similar outcomes,
We are the only western country to even come close to 1 million deaths

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@Swagnarok
You mean as a response to anti-free market lockdowns 
Anti-free market? Lockdowns have nothing to do with the free market. They wouldn’t have been necessary if Trump responded with better testing and tracking 

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@Swagnarok
suppose that every U.S. President from Reagan until Biden caused "massive economic collapses"?
No, just Reagan, Bush, and Trump.

All the bailouts began under them.

S&L crisis, housing collapse, Covid botched 

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@Swagnarok
Thank you for the duel. We will meet again on another topic.

Sadly, we will stand on opposite sides as long as you are a republican.