Will Russia be forced to mount a version of the "Tet Offensive" to force a peace deal?

Author: Greyparrot

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The Tet Offensive marked the beginning of the end of the Vietnam War that held the US in a stalemate grip for 8 years from 1965-1973.

While the Tet Offensive ultimately failed, it proved that the US had no real plan for actually winning the war, and that attrition was the only near term outcome. This led to the US withdrawing from the region.

The Donbas War is nearing its 10th year. While Russia's goals remain the same for now, which is a referendum for independence within the ethnically Russian Donbas, the non-starter that has stymied peace talks to now revolves on Ukraine being independent of NATO. Western powers insist that Ukraine be allowed to expand NATO interests, and that a neutral buffer state would never be tolerated, as this would officially mark the end of NATO expansion and hegemony. Russia's tactic up to now has been to simply wait it out while holding the Donbas, knowing full well Ukraine can never retake the fortified territory with its depleted and dysfunctional military. And while it suits Russia to bleed the western powers to the tune of billions of dollars over war-blasted territory that essentially means nothing for USA interests beyond the expansion of NATO and the enrichment of wealthy elites, many experts are wondering if Russia will mount a massive attack similar to the Tet Offensve to speed the peace process along.

What do you guys think?
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Usually, when you start losing is when you should agree to a peace deal.

Now, stalemate usually results in peace too, although trying to force a stalemate doesnt always work.

Vietnam was mostly won thanks to guerrilla warfare, conducted by teachings of Mao,

where the battle does not happen with enemy's complete army, but only with weak parts of the army.

The guerrilla warfare is all about avoiding enemy's main force.

Guerrilla warfare is of course a failed military tactic on its own.

Guerrilla warfare cannot win on its own, because the main force of enemy is never challenged in guerrilla warfare alone.

However, guerrilla warfare combined with defensive warfare can, in theory, prolong the war and force a stalemate and even victory by causing enemy to suffer more than you do.

Russia causes damage by different type of guerrilla warfare attacks, such as drones, artillery, mines, rockets, bombs...ect.

Now, of course, Russia may not be skilled enough to conduct guerrilla warfare on any larger scale.

It seems that Ukraine is much stronger at this point and Russia is forced to defend a position, which is already a disadvantage.

Guerrila warfare is all about NOT defending a position.

When you are forced to defend a position, the enemy knows that thats where your force is.

The main advantage of Vietnam was that US soldiers simply didnt know where the enemy was.
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Russia's tactic up to now has been to simply wait it out while holding the Donbas, knowing full well Ukraine can never retake the fortified territory with its depleted and dysfunctional military.
I would contest this framing.

A certain NATO members has recently assessed that Russia could rebuild its forces to where it was pre-war in "just" 6 or 7 years, in the event of a permanent ceasefire tomorrow. To be clear, this was a pessimistic take by a country which has zero interest in seeing a strong Russia. If this what the pessimists are saying, then it's clear that Russia has paid an enormous price for its little adventure in Ukraine. Their army has been degraded and is probably no longer a superpower beyond its nuclear arsenal. Likewise, a recently declassified US government report states that the war has set back Russian military modernization by a whopping 18 years.
To reiterate, the war has lasted less than 1 year and 10 months. In another year, how far behind its pre-war strength could Russia fall?

Russia has many interests: deterring NATO encroachment, being a strong presence in Central Asia, deterring Chinese encroachment, upholding its alliance with Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. Ukraine has one single enemy in the world and can afford to bleed itself to exhaustion for the sake of victory on this one front. But is Russia willing to sacrifice its position of strength everywhere else to forcibly annex one impoverished country whose people will hate the Russians for the next 50-100 years?

While Russia's goals remain the same for now, which is a referendum for independence within the ethnically Russian Donbas
This might've been true 2 years ago, but it isn't today. Russia has also seized most of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, which they now claim as part of Russian territory and would refuse to give up as part of any post-war settlement. What Ukraine would be forced to give up in exchange for peace is higher today than ever, meaning they have less reason than ever to sit down and negotiate.

Western powers insist that Ukraine be allowed to expand NATO interests
NATO has never forced a country to join. When the Iron Curtain went down, it sat on its hands for 30 years and didn't pressure Sweden/Finland into changing their outstanding foreign policy. Rather, Sweden and Finland applied to join after Russia's 2022 invasion. I don't see why Ukraine is different.

and that a neutral buffer state would never be tolerated
In March 2022, after Russia's invasion, a whopping 86% of polled Ukrainians responded that they wished to join NATO, and with 87% responding yes to EU membership.
The question is, do we have a right to force neutrality on the Ukrainians when they overwhelmingly don't want it, and when neutrality would mean they're forever at the mercy of Russia?

And while it suits Russia to bleed the western powers to the tune of billions of dollars over war-blasted territory
Vietnam is your go-to example here, so I'll bite.

Almost 60,000 US soldiers were confirmed dead in Vietnam. How many US soldiers in Ukraine? A big fat zero. None at all. This is only costing us money (and we're already spending trillions each year anyway), whereas the Russian death toll is somewhere in the range of 30,000+ to 338,820 men. This, of course, doesn't count those Russians who returned home maimed for life or injured to some degree, who are several times more numerous than the dead.

And that death toll will only climb higher as this war goes on. The question is, how long will Russians sit idly as their sons, brothers, and husbands keep dying for Putin's ego? How long before they demand peace?

If you think this is a question of "them waiting us out", whereas we have no hope of it being other way around, then I have real estate in Xanadu to sell you.
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@Greyparrot
many experts are wondering if Russia will mount a massive attack similar to the Tet Offensve to speed the peace process along.
If this war has taught us anything, it's that, in the 21st century, throwing huge numbers at heavily fortified lines yield gains which don't justify the cost to the attacker (see Bakhmut and Avdiivka, both of which have proven meatgrinders for Russia). Maneuver warfare was already the future in 1939 and it's still the most optimal way of waging war in 2023. If Russia doubles down on anachronistic human wave tactics then that'll only boost Ukraine's chances of winning.

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 to forcibly annex....
Yeah, pretty sure that's not an actual goal for Russia.

This might've been true 2 years ago, but it isn't today. Russia has also seized most of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts, which they now claim as part of Russian territory and would refuse to give up as part of any post-war settlement.

Well, those conquests certainly do not jive with the propaganda that Russia's army is finished.... but you are right. The stakes are higher now simply because Ukraine refused to end the war earlier. Mostly because Boris Johnson ordered Ukraine to deny any deal that involves any promises from Russia. (a totally insane position btw)
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Your padawan turned against you.

"I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you."
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I'm not a Republican, lol.
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Lol
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NATO has never forced a country to join...
That's not the real issue. The issue is that NATO wants to keep the option perpetually open, no matter how implausible that it could actually happen, only to deny Russia any semblance of a working relationship with Ukraine. That's always been the issue. Control.


 If Russia doubles down on anachronistic human wave tactics then that'll only boost Ukraine's chances of winning.
Then you probably didn't understand the Tet Offensive comparison. You can fail a major battle and still win the war as the North Vietnamese did. Russian warfare culture historically has shown them to be as resolute as the Vietnamese, despite the odds, when their own border is at stake. You can't say the same for American persistence maintaining a war 5500 miles away from any US border. Hell, it's hard enough to get support for Israel, and that war is brand new!

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The Tet Offensive marked the beginning of the end of the Vietnam War that held the US in a stalemate grip for 8 years from 1965-1973.

While the Tet Offensive ultimately failed, it proved that the US had no real plan for actually winning the war, and that attrition was the only near term outcome. This led to the US withdrawing from the region.
  • The US Military very definitely had a plan for winning the Viet-Nam war and Tet was the realization of that plan.  For years, the South Vietnamese had been trying to lure the NVA into the open where American tanks and planes could be brought to effect and achieve a strategically significant impact on NVA power.
    • 45,000 NVA, fully half of the NVA's ground army was wiped out in a matter of days at the worthy price of 1500 US soldiers and some 2000 South Vietnamese.  A war of attrition is a good thing if the rate of attrition is 30 to 1 in your favor.
    • The US Military plan going forward after Tet was "One more Tet and their finished."  Six weeks after the big attack that was supposed to provoke a popular uprising, the North Vietnamese were so dismayed by thier collapse that they asked for peace talks.  A peace in 1968 after Tet would have been seen as a decisive victory, as Tet itself is seen. 
    • But Richard Nixon (secretly, illegally, traitorously) convinced the South Vietnamese to hold out for a better deal, then Tricky Dick backed away slowly into Mao's embrace.   Nixon spent South Vietnam like a pawn to pacify China but 50 years later  is China really any less hostile to US interests?  
    • The lesson to be learned is that if Johnson had run for four more years and America had stayed the course, the war would have ended in '68 as an American victory.  Recognize victory when you have it and turn that victory into advantage.  
The Donbas War is nearing its 10th year. While Russia's goals remain the same for now, which is a referendum for independence within the ethnically Russian Donbas,
  • None of this is true.  Putin's stated goal is to restore to its former Imperial extent.  Putin views all of Ukraine as Russian by right and Kiev as the birthplace of that empire.  Russia has already declared the Donbas Russian and any votes run by Russia are meaningless in terms of popular representaton.   Any referendum is a sop to Putin's vanity .   This invasion is best understood as one man's vanity and I predict this pathetic faltering invasion ends with the death of Putin.
the non-starter that has stymied peace talks to now revolves on Ukraine being independent of NATO.
  • In 1991- Ukraine gave all its nukes to Russia in exchange for freedom from Russian meddling, a deal that America put together and American remains the guarentor of that promise.  We Americans have signed a binding promise to punish Russia for violating the international law of  borders drawn in 1991.  Any territorial concession would constitute rewarding an aggressor state for its crimes.  Historically, such aggressors are never satisfied and all appeasement is read as provacation by weakness.  The lesson of Chamberlain is that it is cheaper to  stop such men early and to stop them at any price.
Western powers insist that Ukraine be allowed to expand NATO interests, and that a neutral buffer state would never be tolerated, as this would officially mark the end of NATO expansion and hegemony.
  • A pretty obvious lie.  Western powers denied Ukraine membership several times from fear of Putin's wrath and even now, engaged in war by proxy, NATO hesitates to grant Ukraine membership.  Putin attacked anyway.  The notion of NATO as hegemony is conspiritorial QAnon talk.  NATO contains Canada and Hungary, Turkey and Ireland.  How can the alliance between such poltical opposites be characterized as hegmonic?
Russia's tactic up to now has been to simply wait it out while holding the Donbas,
  •  Are you pretending that Russia hasn't tried and failed to roll tank colums into Kiev?  Are you pretending that Russia does not launch hundreds of missiles at Ukrainian citizens dailY?
knowing full well Ukraine can never retake the fortified territory with its depleted and dysfunctional military.
  • In fact, Ukriane has won back about 50% of Russian territorial gains.  At this rate, Russia will be forced out of the whole of Ukraine in antoher two years.
And while it suits Russia to bleed the western powers to the tune of billions of dollars over war-blasted territory that essentially means nothing for USA interests
  • Americans  is honoring signed international treaty law.  Russian promises have once again proved weak as water.
beyond the expansion of NATO and the enrichment of wealthy elites, many experts are wondering if Russia will mount a massive attack similar to the Tet Offensve to speed the peace process along.

What do you guys think?
The Ukrainian government has counted 340,000 Russian deaths in Ukraine between February 2022 and December 2023. The United Nations has confirmed that 9,701 civilians have been killed and 17,748 injured. The U.K. Ministry of Defence estimates around 320,000 Russi

Dec. 12, 2023, at 11:16 a.m. WASHINGTON (Reuters) -A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.

Russia has lost 90% of its invasion force in two years.  NATO has made Russia pay 6 times the price America paid in Vietnam without losing a single soldier and the Ukriainian army consistently kills more Russians than Russians kill Ukrainian- an unsustainable apocolypse of a statistic.  Any year Russia spends more than half of its military capacity and loses ground is a victorious year for NATO. allies . Every year Putin continue s to crash waves of men and boys  on the rocks of Kherson is another decade Russia falls behind the west in wealth and power.   

The lesson to learn from WWII is fuck appeasement. 

The lesson to learn from Tet is to recognize a brilliantly sucessful battle plan when it plays out before you and pursue that success to advantage.  By any rational strategic assessment, Russian loses in Ukriaine are spectatularly unsustainable.  Russia can either sue for peace on Urkainian terms or waste its entire military strength to claim territory they are no longer strong enought to hold.  Either way, its a W for NATO.

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"But, but, we totally could have won Vietnam!"
Those who make this argument contend that the United States had been on the verge of winning in Vietnam, but threw its chance for victory away because of negative press and a resulting failure of political will at home. This “lost victory” thesis originated with the Nixon administration and its supporters back in the 1970s, but gained considerable traction in the 1980s and ’90s after it was taken up by a group of influential revisionist historians, including Mark Moyar and Lewis S. Sorley III.

Taking their cue from those deluded Vietnam revisionists, Ukrainian war optimists argue that as well: Americans thought we were losing in Vietnam when in fact we were winning, so too are we winning in Ukraine despite apparent evidence to the contrary. The problem, the optimists argued, was that — just as during the Vietnam War — naysaying pundits and politicians were not merely undermining popular support for the war, but giving our enemies (Putin) hope that they could win by waiting for the American people to lose their will to continue the fight.

This kind of talk discourages a frank reassessment of our failing strategy in Ukraine, which produces that weekly procession of maimed Ukrainians. America did not experience a “lost victory” in Vietnam; in fact, victory was likely out of reach from the beginning.
There is a broad consensus among professional historians that the Vietnam War was effectively unwinnable. Even the revisionists admit their minority status, though some claim that it’s because of a deep-seated liberal bias within the academic history profession. But doubts about the war’s winnability are hardly limited to the halls of academe. One can readily find them in the published works of official Army historians like Dr. Jeffrey J. Clarke, whose book “Advice and Support: The Final Years, 1965-1973” highlights the irrevocable problems that frustrated American policy and strategy in South Vietnam. Pessimism also pervades “Vietnam Declassified: The C.I.A. and Counterinsurgency,” a declassified volume of the agency’s secret official history penned by Thomas L. Ahern Jr., a career C.I.A. operations officer who served extensively in Indochina during the war.

In contrast, the revisionist case rests largely on the assertion that our defeat in Vietnam was essentially psychological, and that victory would therefore have been possible if only our political leadership had sustained popular support for the war. But although psychological factors and popular support were crucial, it was Vietnamese, rather than American, attitudes that were decisive. In the United States, popular support for fighting Communism in South Vietnam started strong and then declined as the war dragged on. In South Vietnam itself, however, popular support for the war was always halfhearted, and a large segment (and in some regions, a majority) of the population favored the Communists.
The corrupt, undemocratic and faction-riven South Vietnamese government — both under President Ngo Dinh Diem, who was assassinated in a 1963 coup, and under the military cliques that followed him — proved incapable of providing its people and armed forces a cause worth fighting for. Unfortunately for the United States and the future happiness of the South Vietnamese people, the Communists were more successful: By whipping up anti-foreign nationalist sentiment against the “American imperialists” and promising to reform the corrupt socio-economic system that kept most of the country’s citizens trapped in perpetual poverty, they persuaded millions to fight and die for them.
This asymmetry was the insurmountable stumbling block on the road to victory in Vietnam. Defeating the Communist guerrillas would have been an easy matter if the South Vietnamese people had refused to hide them in their midst. Instead, American and South Vietnamese could only grope after the elusive enemy and were rarely able to fight him except on his own terms.

And even as American soldiers began pouring into the country in 1965, there were already enough South Vietnamese troops on hand that they should have been able to defend it on their own. After all, the South Vietnamese forces outnumbered the Communists, were far better supplied, had vastly superior firepower and enjoyed a considerable advantage in mobility thanks to transport planes and helicopters. But their Achilles’ heel was their weak will to fight — and this shortcoming was never overcome. Similarly, most Ukrainians have lost the will as well, with record levels of military aged men avoiding the Ukraine draft to escape a war only oligarchs had a stake in.

Some years after the war ended, Lt. Gen. Arthur S. Collins, who had commanded all American troops in the central region of South Vietnam from February 1970 to January 1971, told an Army historian: “I didn’t think there was any way that South Vietnam could survive, no matter what we did for them. What put the final nail in the coffin, from my point of view, was when I learned from questioning [South Vietnamese] general officers that almost without exception their sons were in school in France, Switzerland, or the U.S. If they weren’t going to fight for South Vietnam, who was?”

Despite its ally’s fundamental weakness, the United States might possibly still have won, of course, had it been willing to fully mobilize its own national power. But that would have required raising taxes, calling up the Reserves and other sacrifices that President Lyndon Johnson shrank from asking the American people to make.

In a recent New York Times article, Mr. Moyar, the revisionist historian, decried “the absence of presidential cheerleading” and took Johnson to task for failing to create a “war psychology” that would have made Vietnam into a patriotic crusade (and presumably silenced the war’s critics). Mr. Moyar argued, “The public’s turn against the war was not inevitable; it was, rather, the result of a failure by policy makers to explain and persuade Americans to support it.”

But Johnson was the most astute politician to sit in the White House during the 20th century, and he knew that he faced a paradox. As long as the war in Vietnam didn’t demand too much of them and they believed that victory was just around the corner, most Americans would support it. But if Johnson admitted publicly that South Vietnam could not survive without a full commitment by the United States, he knew that support would crumble.

Such a move would reveal the war’s unpleasant truths: that South Vietnam’s government, just like Ukraine's, was an autocratic kleptocracy.  Its military was reluctant to fight, much of its population willingly supported the Communists, North Vietnam was matching our escalation step by step, Johnson had committed the country to war without having a plan to win it and the Pentagon had no real idea when it would be won. And Johnson knew full well that if the public turned against the war, it would reject his leadership and cherished Great Society domestic agenda as well.

So like other presidents before and after him, Johnson tried to conceal the bleak realities of Vietnam from the American people and deliberately misled them about the war’s likely duration and cost. Just about the last thing he wanted was to engender a wartime psychology — much less call for full mobilization. The Communists didn’t need American journalists and antiwar protesters to reveal that public enthusiasm for the war was fragile. Johnson’s refusal to raise taxes or call up the Reserves had made that obvious from the outset — just as our failure to impose new taxes or enact a military draft since 9/11 signals our enemies that America’s will to fight is weak.

Although the United States undoubtedly had the means to prevail in Vietnam, the war was unwinnable at the level of commitment and sacrifice that our nation was willing to sustain. As the renowned historian George Herring put it, the war could not “have been ‘won’ in any meaningful sense at a moral or material cost most Americans deemed acceptable.”

Perhaps the key lesson of Vietnam is that if the reasons for going to war are not compelling enough for our leaders to demand that all Americans make sacrifices in pursuit of victory, then perhaps we should not go to war at all. Sacrifice should not be demanded solely of those who risk life and limb for their country in combat theaters overseas. If it now requires American blood to retake the Donbas in Ukraine, then perhaps America should have never beaten the war drums in the first place 10 years ago.




z
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Most Americans are stupid.

At the start, they support war.

Then change their mind.

Its called flip flop. Most American brains work like flip flop.
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Thankfully during the Vietnam War, my family was wealthy enough to pay a doctor a lot of money to say I had bone spurs.
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Its called flip flop. Most American brains work like flip flop.

Oh, those deplorable Americans...
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But, but, we totally could have won Vietnam!"
Those who make this argument contend that the United States had been on the verge of winning in Vietnam, but threw its chance for victory away because of negative press and a resulting failure of political will at home. This “lost victory” thesis originated with the Nixon administration and its supporters back in the 1970s, but gained considerable traction in the 1980s and ’90s after it was taken up by a group of influential revisionist historians, including Mark Moyar and Lewis S. Sorley III.

Taking their cue from those deluded Vietnam revisionists, Ukrainian war optimists argue that as well: Americans thought we were losing in Vietnam when in fact we were winning, so too are we winning in Ukraine despite apparent evidence to the contrary. The problem, the optimists argued, was that — just as during the Vietnam War — naysaying pundits and politicians were not merely undermining popular support for the war, but giving our enemies (Putin) hope that they could win by waiting for the American people to lose their will to continue the fight.

This kind of talk discourages a frank reassessment of our failing strategy in Ukraine, which produces that weekly procession of maimed Ukrainians. America did not experience a “lost victory” in Vietnam; in fact, victory was likely out of reach from the beginning.
There is a broad consensus among professional historians that the Vietnam War was effectively unwinnable. Even the revisionists admit their minority status, though some claim that it’s because of a deep-seated liberal bias within the academic history profession. But doubts about the war’s winnability are hardly limited to the halls of academe. One can readily find them in the published works of official Army historians like Dr. Jeffrey J. Clarke, whose book “Advice and Support: The Final Years, 1965-1973” highlights the irrevocable problems that frustrated American policy and strategy in South Vietnam. Pessimism also pervades “Vietnam Declassified: The C.I.A. and Counterinsurgency,” a declassified volume of the agency’s secret official history penned by Thomas L. Ahern Jr., a career C.I.A. operations officer who served extensively in Indochina during the war.

In contrast, the revisionist case rests largely on the assertion that our defeat in Vietnam was essentially psychological, and that victory would therefore have been possible if only our political leadership had sustained popular support for the war. But although psychological factors and popular support were crucial, it was Vietnamese, rather than American, attitudes that were decisive. In the United States, popular support for fighting Communism in South Vietnam started strong and then declined as the war dragged on. In South Vietnam itself, however, popular support for the war was always halfhearted, and a large segment (and in some regions, a majority) of the population favored the Communists.
The corrupt, undemocratic and faction-riven South Vietnamese government — both under President Ngo Dinh Diem, who was assassinated in a 1963 coup, and under the military cliques that followed him — proved incapable of providing its people and armed forces a cause worth fighting for. Unfortunately for the United States and the future happiness of the South Vietnamese people, the Communists were more successful: By whipping up anti-foreign nationalist sentiment against the “American imperialists” and promising to reform the corrupt socio-economic system that kept most of the country’s citizens trapped in perpetual poverty, they persuaded millions to fight and die for them.
This asymmetry was the insurmountable stumbling block on the road to victory in Vietnam. Defeating the Communist guerrillas would have been an easy matter if the South Vietnamese people had refused to hide them in their midst. Instead, American and South Vietnamese could only grope after the elusive enemy and were rarely able to fight him except on his own terms.

And even as American soldiers began pouring into the country in 1965, there were already enough South Vietnamese troops on hand that they should have been able to defend it on their own. After all, the South Vietnamese forces outnumbered the Communists, were far better supplied, had vastly superior firepower and enjoyed a considerable advantage in mobility thanks to transport planes and helicopters. But their Achilles’ heel was their weak will to fight — and this shortcoming was never overcome. Similarly, most Ukrainians have lost the will as well, with record levels of military aged men avoiding the Ukraine draft to escape a war only oligarchs had a stake in.

Some years after the war ended, Lt. Gen. Arthur S. Collins, who had commanded all American troops in the central region of South Vietnam from February 1970 to January 1971, told an Army historian: “I didn’t think there was any way that South Vietnam could survive, no matter what we did for them. What put the final nail in the coffin, from my point of view, was when I learned from questioning [South Vietnamese] general officers that almost without exception their sons were in school in France, Switzerland, or the U.S. If they weren’t going to fight for South Vietnam, who was?”

Despite its ally’s fundamental weakness, the United States might possibly still have won, of course, had it been willing to fully mobilize its own national power. But that would have required raising taxes, calling up the Reserves and other sacrifices that President Lyndon Johnson shrank from asking the American people to make.

In a recent New York Times article, Mr. Moyar, the revisionist historian, decried “the absence of presidential cheerleading” and took Johnson to task for failing to create a “war psychology” that would have made Vietnam into a patriotic crusade (and presumably silenced the war’s critics). Mr. Moyar argued, “The public’s turn against the war was not inevitable; it was, rather, the result of a failure by policy makers to explain and persuade Americans to support it.”

But Johnson was the most astute politician to sit in the White House during the 20th century, and he knew that he faced a paradox. As long as the war in Vietnam didn’t demand too much of them and they believed that victory was just around the corner, most Americans would support it. But if Johnson admitted publicly that South Vietnam could not survive without a full commitment by the United States, he knew that support would crumble.

Such a move would reveal the war’s unpleasant truths: that South Vietnam’s government, just like Ukraine's, was an autocratic kleptocracy.  Its military was reluctant to fight, much of its population willingly supported the Communists, North Vietnam was matching our escalation step by step, Johnson had committed the country to war without having a plan to win it and the Pentagon had no real idea when it would be won. And Johnson knew full well that if the public turned against the war, it would reject his leadership and cherished Great Society domestic agenda as well.

So like other presidents before and after him, Johnson tried to conceal the bleak realities of Vietnam from the American people and deliberately misled them about the war’s likely duration and cost. Just about the last thing he wanted was to engender a wartime psychology — much less call for full mobilization. The Communists didn’t need American journalists and antiwar protesters to reveal that public enthusiasm for the war was fragile. Johnson’s refusal to raise taxes or call up the Reserves had made that obvious from the outset — just as our failure to impose new taxes or enact a military draft since 9/11 signals our enemies that America’s will to fight is weak.

Although the United States undoubtedly had the means to prevail in Vietnam, the war was unwinnable at the level of commitment and sacrifice that our nation was willing to sustain. As the renowned historian George Herring put it, the war could not “have been ‘won’ in any meaningful sense at a moral or material cost most Americans deemed acceptable.”

Perhaps the key lesson of Vietnam is that if the reasons for going to war are not compelling enough for our leaders to demand that all Americans make sacrifices in pursuit of victory, then perhaps we should not go to war at all. Sacrifice should not be demanded solely of those who risk life and limb for their country in combat theaters overseas. If it now requires American blood to retake the Donbas in Ukraine, then perhaps America should have never beaten the war drums in the first place 10 years ago.

  • Totally aside from our usual disagreements, GreyParrot.  I am advising you (as I have done in the past) that this is not a fair use of another writer's work.  While I appreciate that you cited the work you are parroting (you often don't), that does not give you liberty to edit Kevin Boylon's prose to suit your argument.  You can't just remove Iraq and insert Ukraine as if Boylon agrees with your master's philosophy.  While not precisely plagiarism, the swapping out of his subject for yours is nevertheless certainly intellectual theft and an impersonation of Boylon offering your opinion- not acceptable.  Please refrain from this manner of intellectual theft in the future.
  • Incedently, I asked AI for a word meaning "to put words in the mouth of another unbidden" and ChatGPT offered  "Puppeteer."  I'm not saying you don't know what you're about, I'm just saying it ain't cool.

Greyparrot
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Examples of Fair Use:
  1. Critical Reviews and Commentary: Providing commentary, criticism, transformative work, or reviews of copyrighted works.
  2. Educational Use: Using copyrighted material for educational purposes, such as in the classroom or for research.
  3. News Reporting: Using copyrighted material in news reporting, journalism, or documentaries.
  4. Parody and Satire: Creating parodies or satirical works that comment on or mock the original.

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Incedently, I asked AI for a word meaning "to put words in the mouth of another unbidden" and ChatGPT offered  "Puppeteer." 
A term that is sometimes used colloquially to describe someone who engages in persistent, unwanted, and peculiar behavior akin to that of a "weird stalker" is "creep." While "creep" doesn't exclusively refer to stalking behavior, it often implies someone who makes others uncomfortable through their unusual or inappropriate actions.
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Examples of Fair Use:
  1. Critical Reviews and Commentary: Providing commentary, criticism, transformative work, or reviews of copyrighted works.
  2. Educational Use: Using copyrighted material for educational purposes, such as in the classroom or for research.
  3. News Reporting: Using copyrighted material in news reporting, journalism, or documentaries.
  4. Parody and Satire: Creating parodies or satirical works that comment on or mock the original.

Obviously, there's more to fair use than just purpose.  To separate what ideas are yours vs what ideas are
someone else's, English speakers use quotations, italics, highlights, etc.  When you take someone else's 
ideas, examples, knowledge, prose, remove the main noun and insert a noun that suits your purpose without
making it clear what is yours and what is theirs , you are commiting property theft just as surely as if broke a
window and took a shit in that author's bed.  Worse,really,  because you haven't afforded the author the chance of shooting
you dead in the commision of your violations.

You are  fabricating the illusion that an American historian agrees with Putin (and therefore you), when the historian wasn't even
talking about Ukraine or Russia.  That's fucked up- immoral theft.  If I catch you pulling bullshit like this again, I am taking action.
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You are  fabricating the illusion that an American historian agrees with Putin (and therefore you)
No, that is clearly your illusion. I would explain but you are not worth the time or effort.

 I am taking action.
If you continue to stalk me, I will continue to report it.