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@Sidewalker
I suppose it would've been preferable if he said "I hate the poorly educated"?
Question for Trump Supporters
Posts
Total:
252
The answer is No. But for once it’s good to see a Republican use the power of government when they’re in office. If Democrats don’t hesitate to make authoritative power grabs, why shouldn’t Republicans
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@n8nrgim
this site needs more trump supporters, or at least trump supporters who try to take politics seriously. i cant imagine half the country has gone crazy.... where are all the sane trump supporters to come here to defend trump and to defend their support of him?
I do, but It’s just a waste of my time nowadays to argue with someone. I have better things to do
Jared Kushner 'admitted Donald Trump lies to his base because he thinks they're stupid'
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@ILikePie5
I do, but It’s just a waste of my time nowadays to argue with someone. I have better things to do
Most of the less than radical left members also left. It is what it is.
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@FLRW
Well, he is right. MAGA are stupid.
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@Greyparrot
Lie to the people repeatedly to convince them that they are under assault, then sell yourself as their protector.Biden sure turned a pretty penny doing that in Ukraine for the last decade, but simply doing that doesn't make him a "fascist"
You can't possibly think you just made a legitimate point.
Biden didn't lie to the people telling them they were under assault. To the extent he warned them of anything it was Russian aggression, and judging by the people sitting at home with their newborns who had missiles fired into their living rooms it appears any warnings there were well founded.
Biden also didn't sell himself to them in an attempt to gain power. He's not a Ukrainian politician, that's kind of the point of fascism.
To think that your example, even if there was anything legitimate about it is anything resembling what we're talking about when we talk about fascism and authoritarianism is either ignorant on a scale that would be impressive for a middle schooler or you're just being brazenly dishonest. I tend to think it's the latter because that's what it looks like trying to defend the indefensible.
In fact, I am pretty sure there's no such thing as an actual fascist alive today.
I'm really curious as to why you think an opinion piece written 5 years ago arguing fascism can't happen in the US is relevant to the point you're trying to make.
Regardless, whether there are any fascists in power around the world is irrelevant to whether Donald Trump meets the basic qualifications. This is yet another red herring.
Again, Trump already showed how useless he was even with a controlled Congress. Your attempt to spin fantasy tales about a Trump that never was and never will be is pure entertainment for this forum, but shouldn't be taken seriously.
First of all, I'm not arguing he will take power and accomplish everything he clearly wants to. This is yet another distraction. I'm arguing that he embodies what fascism is all about and asking the people who would even consider voting for him whether they realize that.
But to your point, Trump may be incompetent but unlike in 2017 he's not alone anymore, he's learned his lesson. In 2016 he knew nothing about government or the world so he surrounded himself with people who had experience in government (aka establishment figures). These are the people who would tell him 'no, that's not how government, the constitution, or the law works'.
What Trump has figured out is that the law, constitution, etc. are just pieces of paper. The only thing that was really stopping him were the people around him, so he won't be making that mistake again. This time he will only hire people who will pledge their loyalty not to the constitution, but to him personally. The second time around will be a completely different ballgame.
Chill with the Ad-homs bro
It wasn't an ad hom, your words that you wrote and posted heavily implied that you see Trump's actions as an attempt to protect his supporters, playing into the very narrative he pushes daily telling them they are under assault and he is their protector. That's fascism 101 and it's also complete nonsense, you couldn't have demonstrated it's effectiveness more if you tried.
Biden didn't lie to the people telling them they were under assault.
So you believe Russia liberating the Donbas is an actual threat to the USA? You don't think that narrative was a lie to the American people to get them to cough up hundreds of billions of dollars to pay the military elites?
Not surprised. Worked for Bush in Iraq. All "Fascism 101" as you put it.
That's fascism 101 and it's also complete nonsense
I agree, your definition of Fascism is nonsense.
The second time around will be a completely different ballgame.
You should really take a moment and read that Politico article. It makes a very compelling case as to exactly why Trump (or anyone) can't be completely in power in America under any circumstance. It's also in an easy-to-read anti-Trump language.
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@Greyparrot
Russia liberating the Donbas
You work for Putin or something? 🙃
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@Best.Korea
Lol, Zelensky says you can offer him Credit, and he will pay you back....he promises!
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@Swagnarok
I suppose it would've been preferable if he said "I hate the poorly educated"?
No, he likes you to be uninformed.
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@Sidewalker
Better to be uninformed than to be indoctrinated.
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@FLRW
Jared Kushner 'admitted Donald Trump lies to his base because he thinks they're stupid'
That, plus when you are completely uninformed, you have no choice but to make up shit to say.
He lies because he doesn't know the truth.
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@Greyparrot
Better to be uninformed than to be indoctrinated.
The uninformed don't know they are indoctrinated.
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@Sidewalker
They know to stay away from fake news indoctrination. You know, the stuff billionaires get you to watch on TV so you can sell your soul to them.
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@Greyparrot
They know to stay away from fake news indoctrination. You know, the stuff billionaires get you to watch on TV so you can sell your soul to them.
Yep, the Trump supporter motto should be "ignorance is bliss".
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@Sidewalker
Yep, the Trump supporter motto should be "ignorance is bliss".
As a Trump hater, I don't trust billionaire owned media. Even if they hate Trump too.
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@Greyparrot
Yep, the Trump supporter motto should be "ignorance is bliss".As a Trump hater, I don't trust billionaire owned media. Even if they hate Trump too.
Well duh, Trump told you the news is fake, everybody knows that.
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@Sidewalker
Trump is fake news. He told MAGA he was Hitler and he lied.
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@Greyparrot
😉
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@n8nrgim
do you think there are reasonable trump supporters out there? can't half the country be crazy? or they are reasonable despite the fact they support trump? or maybe like nazi germany moved a whole country off the cliff, trump has led half the country off the cliff?how would you characterize all this?
I think the vast majority of Trump's support is psychological and personal. Trump is the worst kind of person in every way a politician could be, from ignorance, to petulance, to his narcissism, to bigotry, etc. And yet he has also been sold to the public for years as this successful genius businessman. So unlike any other candidate, his pre built image acted as a shield - 'he couldn't possibly be that ignorant, he's a genius!'.
So when he says something stupid like "I'm just gana bomb the shit out of Isis", or "Why is nuclear proliferation a bad thing?" not only does his shield insulate him from criticism, but more importantly he validates every stupid, bigoted, childish person out there. In him they see themselves and in so doing he gave them permission to be the childish ignoramuses they are. For that they will stand by him no matter what.
To answer your first question, I think there may be reasonable people who support Trump but I don't think they're applying their reasoning to politics. This is why I started this thread, the only way you can be reasonable and support Trump is to own the things he does and own what he is trying to accomplish. They aren't willing to do that, it's cognitive dissonance on steroids.
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@Swagnarok
How about this: “Putin has done a really great job of outsmarting our country. He could not have been nicer. He was so nice. He is really very much of a leader. He said nice things about me,” Trump said in 2014, adding, “I like him because he called me a genius. Putin did call me a genius.”
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@Double_R
so would you agree with the conclusion that half the country is either stupid, ignorant, or engaging in cognitive dissonance? if there's more to that half of the population, how would you describe the rest of trump supporters?
i would think there are some conservatives who dont like voting for democrats, and trump is the one standing out to throw their support behind. wouldn't quite call that cognitive dissonance, as long as they are wiilling to admit trump is a terrible person. there are plenty of trumpsters who vote for him despite acknowledging that he sucks.
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@Greyparrot
So you believe Russia liberating the Donbas is an actual threat to the USA? You don't think that narrative was a lie to the American people to get them to cough up hundreds of billions of dollars to pay the military elites?Not surprised. Worked for Bush in Iraq. All "Fascism 101" as you put it.
Fascism is at it's core, a set of behaviors designed to erode a representative government and replace it with a strongman leader. Bush's war in Iraq accomplished the exact opposite and included none of the recognizable behaviors. And liberating the Donbas? WTF?
You can't be this ignorant about what fascism is.
You should really take a moment and read that Politico article. It makes a very compelling case as to exactly why Trump (or anyone) can't be completely in power in America under any circumstance.
I did read it, the author is wrong.
Essentially, the argument is that Trump can't destroy or democracy or rule of law because we have many institutions that play a large role in our government and those institutions would never allow it. The problem is that our institutions are only as good as the people running them, and Trump has figured this out.
As I already explained, a first term Trump put people in high positions who believed in the constitution. People like John Kelly, Jeff Sessions, John Bolton, etc. That's because back in those days, we all used to agree on the importance of democracy and the rule of law so Trump was forced to run and subsequently act as someone who would protect them. Fast forward 5 years, and Trump has managed to shift the Overton window so far that the pressure on him to do the same has gone completely out the window.
Trump will no longer allow anyone who would dare say "you can't do that Mr. President" to keep their job. If he wants to use the justice department to jail anyone who speaks out against him and they say no, he'll just fire them and replace them with someone who will. If he wants to use the military to enforce martial law (something he has actually talked about), same thing. The constitution will go out the window, and what's our defense against that? A judge writing a strongly worded order? He'll just declare the judge illegitimate and fire anyone who disagrees with him. A republican Congress willing to impeach and convict him? Yeah, ok.
In years past including 2018 when this article was written, this would have been unthinkable. But in classic fascist form, Trump has made it very thinkable. The difference now is that he used age old tried and true tactics to radicalize a large portion of the electorate. If you want to destroy democracy how do you do it? By convincing the people it's already destroyed. Stealing an election is ok now because they stole yours. If you want to destroy the rule of law how do you do it? By convincing the people it's already destroyed. It's ok now to jail your political opponents because they jailed yours.
When Trump makes these ridiculous claims he's not doing so in food faith, the point here is to convince those who are susseptible (like yourself) that there's nothing here worth saving so they'll back you up as you carry out your heist.
Because he's been so successful in convincing so many people out there of these things, he will have the backup that someone like Nixon didn't have.
So do I think this will work? No, not really. But it absolutely could, and it will happen if we allow him. And one thing is clear, there are way more people out there ready and willing to back it up than there were in 2018.
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@n8nrgim
It's actually 13.44 percent of the country is either stupid, ignorant, or engaging in cognitive dissonance.
As I said in #3 , in 2022, 41% of U.S. adults identified as independents, 28% as Republicans and 28% as Democrats. 48 percent of Republicans are for Trump.
This means in the next election Trump will get (.48x28) 13.44 percent of the national vote.
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@n8nrgim
so would you agree with the conclusion that half the country is either stupid, ignorant, or engaging in cognitive dissonance? if there's more to that half of the population, how would you describe the rest of trump supporters?
I would say that's most Trump supporters. I would love for one to come inn here and prove that wrong but unfortunately every interaction I Jane with one only further validates this.
An alternative way to explain it would be to say it's not a matter of them being ignorant or psychologically taken advantage of but to say they just have a different value system. Maybe they really don't care about democracy and the rule of law, maybe they really do prefer something closer to Russia, maybe they really don't care about character, or leadership, or decorum, or integrity, etc. The problem is that when pressed they clearly don't think this way as those are the very things they try to attack alt the left. These aren't genuine arguments, they're cover.
i would think there are some conservatives who dont like voting for democrats, and trump is the one standing out to throw their support behind. wouldn't quite call that cognitive dissonance, as long as they are wiilling to admit trump is a terrible person. there are plenty of trumpsters who vote for him despite acknowledging that he sucks.
Yeah but I call BS on that. There isn't a single thing they can say about Biden, Clinton, or anyone else on the left that Trump isn't guilty of but worse. They attacked Obama for dividing the country, Trump's entire political career is built on dividing us. They attacked Clinton for being dishonest, Trump told over 30k lies in his 4 year term. They attacked Biden for cognitive decline, Trump thinks he ran against Obama and beat him in 2016. If they really cared about the issues they say they care about they wouldn't be voting for Trump.
I would say the other piece of this is that it's no coincidence that support for Trump grows the more rural we get. To most Trump supporters, politics is a team sport so they're just rooting for the home town. Out there in middle of nowhere America they just don't have anything else to do, so politics is their entertainment. It's a cultural thing, so I think that accounts for much of this as well.
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@ILikePie5
The answer is No.
Ok, so he's not a fascist/authoritarian.
There are so many things I could bring up here, but for the sake of simplicity let's just focus in on this one small example; the attack of Paul Pelosi.
Here was Trump bringing this up at his rally just 3 days ago; "...by the way she's obviously got a wall around her house, obviously in that case it didn't work very well [crowd bursts into laughter]"
So here are some simple questions for you
A) Do you think it's appropriate to joke about your political opponents being physically attacked by one of your supporters?
B) Do you acknowledge that this is a tactic used by nearly every fascist throughout history?
C) If not an attempt to further condition your supporters into thinking political violence is acceptable, please explain what this was.
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@Double_R
The question is calling the kettle black. Trump wont be able to run for President, the "fascists" will make sure the "fascist" cant run for President.
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@Double_R
You have a tendency in these trump bashing threads to overlook that a lot of his supporters largely agree with him on substantive conservative issues. You r very good at giving non substantive reasons to be against him, but many of his supporters just value the issues and r willing to overlook his bad qualities. Then there's the conservatives who want an alternative to trump but r willing to vote for him anyway if need be. It's not common for trumpeters to acknowlege he's an authoritarian and sucks as a person and still vote for him enthusiastically... the types to admit all that vote reluctantly for their own non sucky to them reasons
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@n8nrgim
but many of his supporters just value the issues and r willing to overlook his bad qualities.
Like the Germans in the 1930s