What doesn't make sense to me

Author: TheUnderdog 1 year ago

Posts

Total: 28

Topic's author

TheUnderdog

Debates: 5

Posts: 4,340

TheUnderdog

10.27.2023 09:10PM

Me: Can children consent?

Society: NO!!!

Me: So why is circumcision of babies a thing (or as I like to call it; chopping off penis foreskin)? The kids can't consent to that.

Society: Because the kid won't remember it (or parental rights).

Me: So your saying it's okay for a parent to have the right to have sex with their baby boy if the baby boy won't remember it?

Society: NO!!! Children can't consent as BABIES!!

Me: You need to pick one argument.

Either pick:

1. "Babies can't consent to (sex, genital mutilation)" so this would mean you advocate for keeping it illegal to having sex with babies AND you would want it to be illegal to do ANY form of genital mutilation on those who are too young to consent (whether you call this genital mutilation a gender surgery or cutting off dick foreskin). This means that religious officials and doctors who do dick foreskin chopping off get prosecuted by the police and tried the same as someone for raping a baby (so I would do the death penalty for that). It also means ANYONE that has cut the foreskin off of babies before the baby is a consenting adult is a groomer and would face the same penalty as child rape (which SHOULD mean death) if they do it beyond a legally established date. People that chop baby foreskin off before the date wouldn't be facing punishment, but people who do that after the date (a date I would want to make pretty soon) would be put to death for doing something as bad to a baby as raping them while they are a baby.

Or pick:

2. "The baby won't remember it and parental rights". So this means circumcision (and gender surgeries) are allowed to do on a baby that can't even consent yet because of parental rights, AND that it would be okay to have sex with your newborn on the grounds that they won't remember it.

I pick #1

If your religion tells you to do something as bad to a baby as raping them, you need to find a different religion. It doesn't matter if this religion is Christianity, Judaism, or Transgenderism.

LEAVE THE BABIES ALONE!!!

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.27.2023 09:25PM

I always found it amazing how people convince themselves how cutting baby's penis isnt traumatic for the baby, but sucking it somehow is.

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.27.2023 09:33PM

As far as the consent argument goes, children dont want to be circumcised. Thats why they scream in pain during circumcision.

Even if children could consent to it, almost none would unless severe brainwashing took place.

Babies dont consent to circumcision, obviously.

Lemming

Debates: 8

Posts: 3,363

Lemming

10.27.2023 10:12PM

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@TheUnderdog

Why must one only have 'one reason for their action?

@Topic

https://web.archive.org/web/20210802144543/https://www.debate.org/debates/Circumcision-on-male-infants-is-immoral-unless-medically-necessary./1/

https://web.archive.org/web/20210624042025/https://www.debate.org/debates/Children-can-consent-Debate-With-Leaning/1/

oromagi

Debates: 117

Posts: 8,696

oromagi

10.27.2023 11:11PM

If God wanted us circumcised he woulda cut us hisself

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.27.2023 11:29PM

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@oromagi

I hate God. I also dont believe in him. So fuck him.

One of the disadvantages of circumcision is damaged penis.

"Early complications such as: bleeding, pain, inadequate skin removal, and surgical site infection tend to be minor and quite treatable. However, postcircumcision bleeding in patients with coagulation disorders can be significant and sometimes even fatal. Other serious early complications include chordee, iatrogenic hypospadias, glanular necrosis, and glanular amputation. The latter, of course, requires prompt surgical intervention. Late complications include epidermal inclusion cysts, suture sinus tracts, chordee, inadequate skin removal resulting in redundant foreskin, penile adhesions, phimosis, buried penis, urethrocutaneous fistulae, meatitis, and meatal stenosis"

Or in simple terms:

"Do you feel lucky, punk?"

Greyparrot

Debates: 4

Posts: 26,060

Greyparrot

10.27.2023 11:34PM

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@Best.Korea

Yah, God has done some pretty terrible things. Don't trust anyone that uses God as a moral compass. If you do, that's when you know you are gonna get screwed.

Public-Choice

Debates: 19

Posts: 1,065

Public-Choice

10.28.2023 01:39AM

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@TheUnderdog

Well... the false equivalency of fucking someone in the ass and removing a piece of flesh that causes a higher chance of contracting an STD and also rotting your penis aside...

Honestly, I think the biggest difference is intent. One is a malicious intent to cause harm. The other is a good intent to bring holiness.

Of course, that is completely arbitrary. I am not dying on that hill, just trying to explain where people may be coming from.

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,088

zedvictor4

10.28.2023 08:42AM

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@Best.Korea

Would be traumatic if it pissed in your mouth.

Actually, some people are really in to that,

LGBTU.

#10

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,088

zedvictor4

10.28.2023 08:58AM

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@TheUnderdog

A reasonable proposition in an Underdog sort of way.

The genital mutilation of children for religious pseudo-sexual kicks is surely perverse.

In fact the genital mutilation of kids is absolutely unnecessary.

I wonder what Mr OmniGOD thinks about it?

Well, whatever the pseudo-sexual religious perverts decide to write down in one of their silly books.

Thou shall taketh the childs dick and cutteth it.

Try notteth to getteth an erection.

I think that there is also a silly religious pseudo-sexual lesbian version.

I bet that Mr OmniGOD w*nks himself senseless over this option.

Saturday Morning Thoughts.

Thanks to TheUnderdog

#11

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.28.2023 11:05AM

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@Public-Choice

The other is a good intent to bring holiness.

They really need to start teaching in school that intent doesnt matter.

#12

Public-Choice

Debates: 19

Posts: 1,065

Public-Choice

10.28.2023 03:40PM

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@Best.Korea

I agree... kind of... it matters why people do things but that shouldn't matter more than WHAT people actually do, the way society currently has it.

#13

IlDiavolo

Debates: 0

Posts: 1,519

IlDiavolo

10.28.2023 07:51PM

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@zedvictor4

The genital mutilation of children for religious pseudo-sexual kicks is surely perverse.
In fact the genital mutilation of kids is absolutely unnecessary.

If you refer to circumcision, I don't think it should be considered as mutilation. In fact, circumcision has many health benefits. The fact that it's practiced as a ritual doesn't mean it's unnecessary.

#14

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.28.2023 08:17PM

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@IlDiavolo

In fact, circumcision has many health benefits

Go get circumcised then.

#15

IlDiavolo

Debates: 0

Posts: 1,519

IlDiavolo

10.28.2023 08:26PM

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@Best.Korea

Go get circumcised then.

It's not common in my country, but it's not a bad idea.

30% of babies worldwide are circumcised, just to show you that it's not a religious matter.

#16

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.28.2023 08:30PM

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@IlDiavolo

It's not common in my country, but it's not a bad idea

You should do it immediatelly.

#17

FLRW

Debates: 0

Posts: 6,651

FLRW

10.28.2023 08:40PM

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@Best.Korea

Remember that Jesus Christ was circumcised as a Jew on the 8th day after his birth. Until 1960 the Catholic church celebrated the day as Circumcision Day.

#18

FLRW

Debates: 0

Posts: 6,651

FLRW

10.28.2023 08:44PM

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@Best.Korea

OMG, are you saying we should celebrate IlDiavolo Circumcision Day ?

#19

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,088

zedvictor4

10.28.2023 08:48PM

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@IlDiavolo

Circumcision can have health benefits in very specific individual cases. Whereas mass circumcision for ritual purposes does not provide any mass health benefits.

In terms of necessity, ritual by definition is unnecessary, therefore ritual genital mutilation is also unnecessary.

In so much as rituals are performed simply for the sake of the ritual performance. Which implies that the ritual does not necessarily necessitate any or all of it's parts.

So mutilating genitals for the sake of the ritual performance, is therefore by association, not necessarily necessary .

#20

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.28.2023 08:48PM

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@FLRW

Yeah. I hope the guy does whats right for his health.

#21

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,088

zedvictor4

10.28.2023 08:54PM

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@IlDiavolo

And I would suggest that 30% of babies worldwide is indicative of an influence.

And I would further suggest that the influence is probably religious.

#22

IlDiavolo

Debates: 0

Posts: 1,519

IlDiavolo

10.28.2023 08:56PM

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@zedvictor4

Circumcision can have health benefits in very specific individual cases. Whereas mass circumcision for ritual purposes does not provide any mass health benefits.

In terms of necessity, ritual by definition is unnecessary, therefore ritual genital mutilation is also unnecessary.

In so much as rituals are performed simply for the sake of the ritual performance. Which implies that the ritual does not necessarily necessitate any or all of it's parts.

So mutilating genitals for the sake of the ritual performance, by association is therefore not necessarily necessary .

I know it's a jewish ritual but nowadays people do it to their babies due to its many benefits. Why don't you ask a doctor about it so that you convince yourself?

#23

IlDiavolo

Debates: 0

Posts: 1,519

IlDiavolo

10.28.2023 08:57PM

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@FLRW

OMG, are you saying we should celebrate IlDiavolo Circumcision Day ?

My dick will be famous at long last!! Lol.

#24

Best.Korea

Debates: 357

Posts: 10,725

Best.Korea

10.28.2023 09:06PM

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@IlDiavolo

Lets hope you wont be one of those who end up with bent penis after circumcision.

Not gonna lie tho, that would be funny as fuck.

#25

zedvictor4

Debates: 22

Posts: 12,088

zedvictor4

10.28.2023 09:08PM

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@IlDiavolo

There are absolutely no health benefits to be gained from the mass circumcision of babies.

Clinically necessary circumcision usually occurs in later stages of physical development.

Ritual circumcision is derived of stupid men, who share stupid ideas concerning false gods and sexuality.. Doctors are not necessarily an exception to this rule.

40 days later

Topic's author

#26

TheUnderdog

Debates: 5

Posts: 4,340

TheUnderdog

12.08.2023 05:20PM

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@Public-Choice

Honestly, I think the biggest difference is intent. One is a malicious intent to cause harm. The other is a good intent to bring holiness.

There are 2 possibilities; the kid grows up to be religious in a religion where circumcision is required, or not. If the first, then the kid gets circumcised when they are an adult; they endure pain, but God rewards them for it. If it's the 2nd, then they wouldn't get circumcised and would enjoy sex more.

Only consenting adults should get circumcised unless good evidence that a medical reason would be necessary.

Well... the false equivalency of fucking someone in the ass and removing a piece of flesh that causes a higher chance of contracting an STD and also rotting your penis aside...

Where is the evidence for this? I would rather get raped (assuming no STI) than lose a piece of flesh if that piece of flesh is my dick when I am 18. I'll recover from the rape; but I won't recover from losing my manhood.

#27

Sam_Flynn