Instigator / Pro
2
1377
rating
62
debates
25.81%
won
Topic
#643

life is created intelegently

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
2
1

After 3 votes and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

crossed
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
5,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
1
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description

No information

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:

A mostly incoherent debate that is not much fun to read.

Round 1- Arguments to Con

Pro opens with "here is a (very long) list of things god created and also man created. No discernible thesis developed.

RatMan Ks around for a while K1=misspelled title, K2= let's define ID, K3=off definition.

Round 2- Nothing and Everything

As a kind of found poem, Pro's R2 works to a surprisingly moving degree:
(with a little editing)

The houses were getting all flooded
and so they house-evolved and over
millions of years they moved
away from the ocean
so they would not get flooded.

the house evolution
people then moved
to metal houses and how
they house-evolved.

For language a serial killer might write I think Pro's fourth graph serves excellent material:

"firstly if evolution is true were are all the meat eaters who died because they have small teeth. we should have bones of small teeth meat eaters because they when extinct according to evolution. there is none because god created the meat eaters with big teeth because he intends for them to hunt. same reason why a murder uses a sharp knife and not a dull one. do you believe that over millions of years the murder persons knife became sharp because all the dull knifes could not penetrate the killers victim so the dull knife over a million years turned sharp so that it can kill no that is silly"

But I don't think it can be fairly said any thesis is discernible or inferable, Pro's argument is best described as a long list of things in poetic juxtaposition. I'm pretty sure Pro's trying to sell us some turmeric there at the end of R2. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if this debate isn't only about whether or not I would like some turmeric.

RatMan Ks, Ks, Ks,

I think RatMan's

"Turmeric having healing powers and even antibacterial properties is not proof of ID."

is probably sufficient to to refute whatever Pro's offered so far.

Round 3 Thesis, at last

Pro asks:

"is not turmeric traversing the brain via 270 pathways showing high intelligence?
if not what is?'

One of several obvious answers would be blood. Blood is traversing the brain pathways, not turmeric....not necessarily turmeric at any rate and certainly not turmeric only.

Pro posts a link to something called "free, printable mazes for kids." I would not advise people to click on that link or any other. I smell a minotaur. DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS, PEOPLE ! in fact, I'm not sure I still want to be voting on some potentially underpoliced debate.

Fine poetry re-commences:

Can a rock put together a twenty piece puzzle?
Can the rat traverse a rock maze?

Can a god put together a twenty piece puzzle
shall the twenty piece puzzled be praised?

RatMan Ks....Ks, Ks, Ks.

Round 4 Horrible Stupid Stuff

Horrible stupid stuff totally unrelated to this debate.

Highlights?

"here is i pet goat 2 the satanic video. its a bit brain washy so be careful!"

(I prefer to read this part out loud in a high, nasal voice. Try it now. See?)

RatMan Ks horrible stupid stuff cuz wtf, right?

Round 5 Grand Guignol

We've entered a sort of end of the river, Heart of Darkness scenario now.

Pro admits spelling intelligence wrong and is now probably going to prepare for the end of humanity.
Pro blames Satan and wishes he'd talked more about turmeric.

[In my mind, I am Marlon Brando, self-tattooing my bald pate as I recite:]

God
Being Aware
That non-white
bears would not
survive well in the snow

God making
them white
in the snow white world
would fit perfectly
with intelegence [sic]

Con Ks his ways to victory. Mistah Kurtz? -he dead.

Sources to Con because Pro posted weird links to irrelevancies like homeopathic pharmaceuticals and brain washy mazes. I'd award points if I could.

Conduct to Con because Pro creeped me out with weird links to irrelevancies like homeopathic pharmaceuticals and brain washy mazes, interfering with this debate's readability. I'd award points if I could.

(don't click on any links, people)

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pros entire argument is predicated on the idea that A is suited for B, and as a result A was intended to be used for B.

Pro actually does a good job of making this feel intuitive by using examples of human design to illustrate the point. However it is a bit old argument from incredulity at its heart - relying on incredulity as to how such seemingly matched functions could somehow not be designed.

Cons response in his opening round is basically demanding pro actively prove that there is a creator that intentionally designed life. I agree to a point - but I expect con to provide his own proof.

Pro mostly ignores cons argument and simply throws more examples and implausibilties - the same old argument from incredulity.

Con does better in R2: he provides a very generalized argument from evolution. But it’s a bit of a mess - he doesn’t cover the main issues pro raises, by taking just one specific example, and providing an evidenced explanation (not of the evolution itself - but how that trait can arise using evolutionary principles). Cons explanation here is so generic it’s more like waving a magic wand than an explanation.

Pro goes on to raise a series of issues with pros argument, and while a bit repetitive clarifies his issue: his brain example and pathway was a bit sloppy, but his argument about tracing DNA was good, at setting up a falsifiable question.

Con at this point should have knocked this debate out of the park, as tracing ancestry should have been trivial, however cons round 3 seems mostly irrelevant to the debate - talking about mutations being random rather than dealing with any of the issues raised.

The next round was accidentally skipped due to the posting - and isn’t being considered as there are no argument.

In the final round, pro raises a series of similar issues to the ones already raised and answers cons question about why evolution happens if it doesn’t need to. Pros response was that life doesn’t evolve. This is not a great answer, but is unrefuted by con - as are the remaining points.

Other than objecting to pro raising additional points (which are mostly variations on the same point) - con has no response.

While I believe pros argument is factually lacking, it is still based on what appears to be an intuitive basis.

Con plain and simply doesn’t do enough to explain why pros examples are wrong and provides not much more than a generalized explanation that doesn’t fully address the points made by pro. The inability of con to rebut directly refute any point raised in R3 - and to not offer any real argument after his round 2 (R3 appears to be almost completely irrelevant), basically makes it impossible for me to take his side - on one of the few topics I feel can almost invariably be a complete slam dunk win for con with only a trivial amount of effort.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:

This debate was just sad. Con barely tried to refute anything, and Pro’s points were not well articulated and he ended up repeating himself a lot.

R1

Pro shows examples of fine tuned creatures that look as if they were intelligently designed. Con refutes this by showing evolution as a counter theory. My problem firstly is that Con is relying on copy-pasted quotes for almost the whole entirety of his arguments. That’s lazy debating. Secondly, he doesn’t elaborate on evolution at all.

R2

Pro uses a hilarious housevolution example that I thought was very clever. It was clearly hypothetical, but Con responds by explaining how houses are actually built. He ignores the underlying message of the hypothetical situation and doesn’t address what Pro is actually trying to say. He then shows how ID works and falls back on natural selection some more. Once again, he doesn’t explain the evolution point fully in its relation to the debate. This was very annoying.

R3

This was much better for Con. Pro essentially reiterated the same arguments, but Con elaborated on the evolution theory and showed experiments where new genes popped up in a gene pool. This was a much better counter to Pro.

R4

There’s nothing to judge here because Pro accidentally posted a different debate argument into it.

R5

Pro reiterates more arguments and also addresses some of Con’s points. Con doesn’t even bother to respond, so I have to give this round to Pro. You must respond to as many points as possible.

Conduct

Con relied too heavily on quotes for the majority of his argument, he frequently was a little rude to Pro, and he cursed. This was very annoying to me. In addition, he didn’t bother to write arguments for the last two rounds. On the other hand, Pro accidentally posted the wrong debate argument.

Grammar

Pro’s grammar and spelling was horrible. Con would get this point if the voting system was regular.

So, overall, I have to give arguments to Pro. Con simply failed to rebut them enough, and he relied on quotes way too much. This was a very disappointing debate, and I think that Con could have easily won had he tried to rebut in all of the rounds and explained his pointe in his own words. In addition, his conduct was worse, but Pro’s grammar was worse. These cancel out, leaving just arguments, so because of that, Pro wins.